Protesting the national anthem

[The Brown Brink]

Lives their dream of being a football player, then complains about the country that made it possible.

No, they're protesting police brutality.

Where do you get "the country" part?

 

[RDKirk]

Lives their dream of being a football player, then complains about the country that made it possible.

Why is that a problem? There have been many wealthy men who have observed that their society was yet unjust.

 

[RDKirk]

With regard to protesting the anthem itself, I've never cared for this verse:



And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

[The Brown Brink]

Do some people just WANT to think these players are being unpatriotic?
Do people just make up this stuff about national anthems and flags?

And...
Is that a nice way to be?

 

[Dave-W]

You mean...they should be grateful that it's not 1968...when people were pepper-sprayed?

And mowed down with night sticks and clubs. Dozens at a time.

Yes we should be grateful that does not happen today.

When was the last time you heard of tanks being called out to put down a protest?

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...-of-1967-summer-riots-remain-largely-the-same

 

[W2L]

No, they're protesting police brutality.

Where do you get "the country" part?

They are protesting america it seems.

 

[W2L]

Why is that a problem? There have been many wealthy men who have observed that their society was yet unjust.

I yield, you guys win.

 

[Dave-W]

 

[The Brown Brink]

And mowed down with night sticks and clubs. Dozens at a time.

Yes we should be grateful that does not happen today.

When was the last time you heard of tanks being called out to put down a protest?

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...-of-1967-summer-riots-remain-largely-the-same

So you don't mind if we suffer a "little" police brutality...
Is that what you're saying?

You're defending a "little" police brutality?
Really?

What else are you willing for us to suffer?

 

[Dave-W]

So you don't mind if we suffer a "little" police brutality...
Is that what you're saying?

You're defending a "little" police brutality?
Really?

What else are you willing for us to suffer?

Are you saying that what goes on today compares at all with what happened 50 years ago?

 

[The Brown Brink]

Are you saying that what goes on today compares at all with what happened 50 years ago?

Why are you so willing for us to accept abuse today, as long as it's "not so bad" as it was in the past?

I don't get it.
Abuse is abuse.
Are you accustomed to abuse or something?

 

[The Brown Brink]

Are you accustomed to brutality?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Protesting is amoral. Morality is not central to the simple act of protesting. Why one protests may be a matter of one taking a moral stance and how one goes about protesting could be immoral(rioting for instance) but protest itself is not moral or immoral.

I have seen the opinion expressed that people ought not be fired for expressing their political opinion while they are at work. Though i wish it were so I cannot say I find that it has been the case in the past or that insistence that it must be the case is reasonable one. An employer has an interest in not offending the employer's customers. Like just about all companies outside the entertainment industry, if a McDonald's employee were to make a point of expressing an opinion to McDonald's customers that a large portion of Mcdonald's customers might not agree with that employee would be told to stop doing that on company time and on company property. They would say that while representing McDonald's one should keep one's opinions to oneself and serve the customer without proselytizing either for your religious or political POV. . In this particular case however, the NFL obviously does not feel that offending the part of their customer base that was offended by what they saw as disrespect for symbols that those customers hold sacred would negatively impact them as much as not supporting their employees would so the players are in no danger of being fired . Their employers(NFL owners) value them more than they do the customers that are offended. McDonald's and other service oriented and commodity oriented companies rarely have that sort of hierarchy of value placement.

I would be very interested to see what people's reactions would be if the protests in question were centered around other issues than is now the case. If they were say pro traditional marriage or pro life protests would the same people from each side of the political spectrum hold the same views about free speech and reverence for the anthem and flag and calling for people to be fired for having the wrong view or not respecting the symbols of the nation? From my perspective, judging by past events, there are many that would flip flop on both sides.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Below is what Kaepernick said on the subject. I have seen some people try to say this was not about protesting the country but hois words do not seem to agree with that characterization . So, at least for Kaepernick who started the whole thing by sitting down then later changed it to a kneel , perhaps so it would seem a bit less disrespectful, it is a means to show lack of pride in a flag for a county that he sees as oppressive. We can be fairly certain about what Kaepernick intended as he told us in unambiguous terms. What each NFL player is thinking now is quite a bit less clear.

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,”

 

[Strathos]

With regard to protesting the anthem itself, I've never cared for this verse:



And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Does anyone ever actually sing that part in this day and age?

 

[The Brown Brink]

Below is what Kaepernick said on the subject. I have seen some people try to say this was not about protesting the country but hois words do not seem to agree with that characterization . So, at least for Kaepernick who started the whole thing by sitting down then later changed it to a kneel , perhaps so it would seem a bit less disrespectful, it is a means to show lack of pride in a flag for a county that he sees as oppressive. We can be fairly certain about what Kaepernick intended as he told us in unambiguous terms. What each NFL player is thinking now is quite a bit less clear.

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,”

This statement surely applies to the well-known police brutality issue.
I'm not proud of my country's behavior in that matter, either.
Who is?

Do we expect everyone to show pride in our country in this matter...anyway?...and not use our rights to express our disappointment?Why do we expect that?

This is America.
We're allowed to identify flaws within our societal framework and draw attention to them, so as to correct them.
Surely it is good citizenship to do so.


I think some of us haven't thought this through...

 

[FireDragon76]

They are protesting america it seems.

America is an idea. We all have our own take on that idea.

 

[David Brider]

Help me out here - as a non-American, I'm unclear why having a national anthem played at a (AIUI) non-international sports match is even a thing?

 

[RDKirk]

Help me out here - as a non-American, I'm unclear why having a national anthem played at a (AIUI) non-international sports match is even a thing?

It allows people who have never done anything to pretend that they have.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Help me out here - as a non-American, I'm unclear why having a national anthem played at a (AIUI) non-international sports match is even a thing?

It is a display of patriotism that has become customary.

For what it's worth, musical performances at the Hollywood Bowl generally start with the anthem as well.