Investigative Judgment (Seventh day Adventists)

aemaleski

Newbie
Nov 27, 2010
3
1
✟15,463.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You probably wonder how I could possibly write something about the Seventh day Adventist church and their aberrant teachings such as the Investigative Judgment. Because I use to be one for 25 years. One of the things in reference to the judgment is I know that we are judged before the throne of GOD. But recently I started questioning GOD in asking whether or not if He ,too, is being judged not only by us but also by the angels in an indirect way. Don't get me wrong. I know that HE is always right beyond the shadow of doubt. But it is more or less a question placed before HIM. The insight that was given to me personally is that GOD is always being questioned whether or not HE is right or wrong. If you are human, then you have gone through this process, too. whether or not if we choose to or not. My thought and question: Is GOD being judged as well as being Judge? Does this make any sense? If you understand what I am saying, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.​
 
Last edited:

woobadooba

Legend
Sep 4, 2005
11,307
914
✟10,191.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What about it?

UPDATE: The reason for my question was because the original post had no content, so I wasn't sure what the point was.

But more information was added in post #3, and now I can see that content has also been added to the original post.

For my response, see this comment.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

aemaleski

Newbie
Nov 27, 2010
3
1
✟15,463.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ok, try this one for size on the SDAs teaching on the Investigative Judgment. My thoughts are yes, we are judged and being judged before the throne of GOD. But what about the fact that maybe just maybe that GOD, himself is also being judged as well. I know it's deep. But think about it deeply for awhile. I'm not being critical but aren't we always questioning GOD whether or not? I know that in my heart He will always be right about everything. No questions about that. But God does know our makeup (in thought, word, and deed). We are his handiwork and we are constantly asking questions, upon questions. Did not Jesus, himself question God in what HE was doing? Gethsemane! folks. Do I personally believe that the Day of Judgment is a two way street? YES, I do. The human side of me will always question. As far as the Investigative Judgment teaching---It runs both ways both GOD the Father and us. Yes, we are being judged before the throne of GOD. But GOD is also being judged as well. And the angels that around HIS throne are seeing this action. How do I know about Seventh-day Adventism as well as I do (doctrinally)? Because I once belonged to the Seventh-day Adventist Church for 25 years before someone else started to show me the errors of Seventh-day Adventism. Google Former Seventh-day Adventists, and you will see a big community that will lead you back to basic Christian teachings. The SDAs misconstrue many basic bible teachings. Please be careful. Ask GOD to help you in a better understanding of these teachings and the group, Seventh-day Adventists.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Sarah G
Upvote 0

woobadooba

Legend
Sep 4, 2005
11,307
914
✟10,191.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think it is best to examine every teaching about God in light of the Scriptures—just like the Bereans did.

"These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." Acts 17:11 (NKJV)

Does the Bible support the idea that God is being judged? I see no such evidence of that. But I do see something else.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16 (NKJV)

"to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Romans 3:26 (NKJV)

God is just, righteous, holy, merciful, loving, and kind. It's not His character that should be brought into question, but our impatience, selfishness, and ingratitude.

As for the Investigative Judgment, you forget to mention something: The belief also states that Jesus didn't enter the Most Holy place until 1844.

What does the Bible say?

"And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last. Then the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom."Mark 15:37-38 (NKJV)

"But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!" Acts 7:55-56 (NKJV)

"But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption." Hebrews 9:11-12 (NKJV)

"But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God"
Hebrews 10:12 (NKJV)

"looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2 (NKJV)

"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him." 1 Peter 3:21-22 (NKJV)

I see plenty of evidence from the Bible that Jesus entered the Most Holy place long before 1844.
 
Upvote 0

FreebyTruthJohn832

New Member
Oct 16, 2018
2
0
44
Dallas
✟15,302.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
John 5:24 KJV (Words of Jesus in red)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:24 GW (Words of Jesus in red)
I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won’t be judged because they have already passed from death to life.
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You probably wonder how I could possibly write something about the Seventh day Adventist church and their aberrant teachings such as the Investigative Judgment. Because I use to be one for 25 years. One of the things in reference to the judgment is I know that we are judged before the throne of GOD. But recently I started questioning GOD in asking whether or not if He ,too, is being judged not only by us but also by the angels in an indirect way. Don't get me wrong. I know that HE is always right beyond the shadow of doubt. But it is more or less a question placed before HIM. The insight that was given to me personally is that GOD is always being questioned whether or not HE is right or wrong. If you are human, then you have gone through this process, too. whether or not if we choose to or not. My thought and question: Is GOD being judged as well as being Judge? Does this make any sense? If you understand what I am saying, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.​
That Judgement so called of the SDA is not found anywhere in the scriptures, for by the death of Jesus for our sins, we are eternal life securde by Him for the redeemed, as we will stand before Him to render His judgement as to our ternal rewards, but never as to loss of our etetrnal life.
To the Sda, fidelity to the teaching of their prophetess Ellen White, and keeping the Sabbath will be a big part as to if still have eternal life or forfeited it!
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,351
10,607
Georgia
✟911,854.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You probably wonder how I could possibly write something about the Seventh day Adventist church and their aberrant teachings such as the Investigative Judgment.​

More Bible less pejoratives please.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You probably wonder how I could possibly write something about the Seventh day Adventist church and their aberrant teachings such as the Investigative Judgment. Because I use to be one for 25 years. One of the things in reference to the judgment is I know that we are judged before the throne of GOD. But recently I started questioning GOD in asking whether or not if He ,too, is being judged not only by us but also by the angels in an indirect way. Don't get me wrong. I know that HE is always right beyond the shadow of doubt. But it is more or less a question placed before HIM. The insight that was given to me personally is that GOD is always being questioned whether or not HE is right or wrong. If you are human, then you have gone through this process, too. whether or not if we choose to or not. My thought and question: Is GOD being judged as well as being Judge? Does this make any sense? If you understand what I am saying, I would love to hear your thoughts on this.​

You asked...………
" My thought and question: Is GOD being judged as well as being Judge? Does this make any sense? If you understand what I am saying, I would love to hear your thoughts on this."

My advice to you on this question is to place it in the deepest part of the ocean just like God does with our confessed sin.

There is no such doctrine or thought or thesis found in the Word of God.

I would also advise you to look into the "Sovereignty" of God.

God is good, God is right...….ALWAYS!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,351
10,607
Georgia
✟911,854.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Daniel 7

Yes, describing jesus as the divine Son of Man , and the 4 Kingdoms of Greece, Persia, Babylon, and Rome!

And a judgment scene in heaven where "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" - before the tribulation of the saints ends... and before Christ comes to rule the Earth
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,351
10,607
Georgia
✟911,854.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I am IN. What are your thoughts???

Daniel 7 has the pre-advent judgment that is based on the content of what it calls "books" - judgment that takes place before the persecution of the saints ends and before the 2nd coming but after the split up of the roman empire
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Daniel 7 has the pre-advent judgment that is based on the content of what it calls "books" - judgment that takes place before the persecution of the saints ends and before the 2nd coming but after the split up of the roman empire

Of course this "Pre-Advent Judgment" is a SDA teaching. Of all the doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the doctrine of the pre-Advent judgment beginning in heaven in 1844 has been questioned more than any other.

It is generally agreed that there is a difference between classical prophecy, in which the prophet was God's spokesperson to His people in Old and New Testament times, and apocalyptic prophecy with its focus on the end of the world and the coming of the kingdom of God.

WHY THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST POSITION IS FATALLY FLAWED.

It contradicts the teaching of Jesus.

The synoptic gospels in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 19 record Jesus’ Olivet discourse about last day events. One searches these chapters in vain for even a hint that his return will be followed by a 1000 year reign. For Jesus the culmination of salvation history is the day of his own return.

“For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father and then he will repay each person for what he has done” Matt.16:27. (All scriptural quotations are from the ESV unless otherwise indicated)

“When the Son of Man comes…before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another.” Matt.25:31-46.

“The harvest is the end of the age… his angels… will gather out of his kingdom all …lawbreakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace…Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father.” Matt.13:24-30, 36-43

Jesus said that the day of his return will bring the resurrection of ALL the dead.
The Adventist Millennium Isn’t Biblical | Adventist Today


You probably need to start a new thread so that the OP of this one is not offened.

Let me know when you do it and I will be there.
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Of course this "Pre-Advent Judgment" is a SDA teaching. Of all the doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the doctrine of the pre-Advent judgment beginning in heaven in 1844 has been questioned more than any other.

It is generally agreed that there is a difference between classical prophecy, in which the prophet was God's spokesperson to His people in Old and New Testament times, and apocalyptic prophecy with its focus on the end of the world and the coming of the kingdom of God.

WHY THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST POSITION IS FATALLY FLAWED.

It contradicts the teaching of Jesus.

The synoptic gospels in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 19 record Jesus’ Olivet discourse about last day events. One searches these chapters in vain for even a hint that his return will be followed by a 1000 year reign. For Jesus the culmination of salvation history is the day of his own return.

“For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father and then he will repay each person for what he has done” Matt.16:27. (All scriptural quotations are from the ESV unless otherwise indicated)

“When the Son of Man comes…before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another.” Matt.25:31-46.

“The harvest is the end of the age… his angels… will gather out of his kingdom all …lawbreakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace…Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father.” Matt.13:24-30, 36-43

Jesus said that the day of his return will bring the resurrection of ALL the dead.
The Adventist Millennium Isn’t Biblical | Adventist Today


You probably need to start a new thread so that the OP of this one is not offened.

Let me know when you do it and I will be there.
The Sda teaches that we are just on a probationary salvation, as we can still forfeit it at that investigation, as in not holding to the Sabbath, not keeping dietary laws, and not heeding and obeying Ellen White as a prophetess of God!
NONE of that is in the Bible!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Major1
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
What exactly are the elements of this
Investigative Judgment teaching?

How does it relate to the nature of God?
God will still have to evaluate how one lives their life after getting "saved," as he will want to make sure per Sda was still meriting salvation. That means keeping Sabbath, dietary laws, accepting Ellen White as inspired prophetess etc!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Major1
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
What exactly are the elements of this
Investigative Judgment teaching?

How does it relate to the nature of God?

Here, this may help you - awhn

If you have any further questions, please let me know. Thank you.
 
Upvote 0

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption." Hebrews 9:11-12 (NKJV)

Hi.

Could you show me a single Koine Greek MS that has the word "most" (Most Holy Place) in it in Hebrews 9:12?

If not, could you show me any primary non-English language MS (Latin, Syriac, Aramaic, Coptic, Sahidic, Bohairic, etc) that has this word "most" in Hebrews 9:12 before 1881?

If not, could you show me any primary translation into English from the time of the Reformation (Tyndale, Coverdale, Matthews, Bishops, Great, Geneva, etc) unto the first 'abortion' translation (RV - 1881) or the second 'abortion' translation (ASV - 1901) that has this word "most" in it?

If not, could you tell me why the NKJV has the word "Most" in Hebrews 9:12, and not in italics/brackets (even if the authors thought warrant for it)?


The King James says:

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Revelation 1 & 4-5, demonstrate where Jesus ascended to. The Holy Place. Typology reveals that Jesus ascended to the Holy Place. Prophecy reveals Jesus ascended to the Holy Place.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

liberty of conscience

created anew
Dec 3, 2018
374
125
Visistate
Visit site
✟12,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You probably wonder how I could possibly write something about the Seventh day Adventist church and their aberrant teachings such as the Investigative Judgment.
Not really. I figure you have been deceived from another or self-deceived (by turning from the mirror of the Testimonies) or are simply ignorant of the truth (which may be corrected by thorough and prayerful study).

Because I use to be one for 25 years.
Logical fallacy. Appeal to age.

One of the things in reference to the judgment is I know that we are judged before the throne of GOD. But recently I started questioning GOD in asking whether or not if He ,too, is being judged not only by us but also by the angels in an indirect way.

You sound like a Seventh-day Adventist in that.

E. J. Waggoner said:

"... But God has left the vindication of his character to his children. He has, as it were, risked his character with men. David said, in his penitential psalm: -- {March 6, 1897 EJW, GCDB 55.4}

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. {March 6, 1897 EJW, GCDB 55.5}

Paul brings out the same idea when he says: -- {March 6, 1897 EJW, GCDB 55.6}

Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. {March 6, 1897 EJW, GCDB 55.7}

The time when we are judged is the time when God is judged. At that time all the dealings of God with his creatures will come up before the universe. The character of God as expressed in his government, and the whole story of his dominion, will come up there. Every man will have to participate in pronouncing judgment, for it is written, "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess," "that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God, the Father." Every man shall pronounce his own judgment, and, in pronouncing his own judgment, will declare the righteousness and justice of God's character. {March 6, 1897 EJW, GCDB 55.8}

E. J. Waggoner again:

"That Thou mightest be justified in Thy sayings, and mightest overcome when Thou art judged." Rom. 3:4. {February 3, 1909 EJW, MEDM 89.6}

From the foregoing we learn that when God judges He Himself is judged. [90] God has been fully slandered by Satan. He has been charged with selfish indifference to the wants of His creatures, and many have believed and repeated the accusation. The case, therefore, has been brought into court, God is now on trial, and the final judgment of the world will be the announcement of the verdict in His case, when every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to God, "just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of Saints." A thorough study of the book of Isaiah reveals the fact that it is devoted to this trial, setting forth the claims of God as against those of the gods of the heathen. It is pre-eminently the book for the foreign missionary. ..."

General Conference Bulletin:


"... Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. {January 1897 LTNe, GCB 55.6}

The time when we are judged is the time when God is judged. At that time all the dealings of God with his creatures will come up before the universe. The character of God as expressed in his government, and the whole story of his dominion, will come up there. Every man will have to participate in pronouncing judgment, for it is written, "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess," "that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God, the Father." Every man shall pronounce his own judgment, and, in pronouncing his own judgment, will declare the righteousness and justice of God's character. {January 1897 LTNe, GCB 55.7} ..."
 
Upvote 0