Faith or Predestination

[Si_monfaith]

The unsaved, nonbeliever is not of his own power casting satan off nor is he enabling himself to receive the gift, but everyone has the ability to accept the invitation (just as they all could accept the King's invitation to the banquet) even while you are a child of satan.

So satan allows them to accept the invitation without God's power of His grace?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Clearly God has made it possible for me or anyone to receive the gift of salvation by offering it to whosoever will believe and receive it. I really don't understand your point or what you are trying to say.

If God has made it possible for anyone to receive the gift, then His gift is irresistible, you agree?

 

[Si_monfaith]

It is a recent common mistranslation to make faith the "gift" in Eph 2:8 and thereby link it to the Calvinist theories on predestination. However, faith as the gift is unsupported by the grammar in the Greek (nor is it supported by the context.)

'Faith' and 'grace' are in the feminine gender, but the gift of God is in the neuter gender. In Greek, this then applies the 'gift' to the entire clause - that salvation is a gift by grace and through faith.

What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

The process is given in even more detail in Rom 3:22-26: Righteousness is given through faith to all who believe. We are justified by grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. God displayed Christ publicly (grace) as a propitiation (atoning sacrifice) whose blood is applied to us through faith.

We only have the offer of salvation because of grace. Because we could not save ourselves, God the Father in his mercy and grace sent His only begotten Son to die for the ungodly as propitiation, an atoning sacrifice, on behalf of our sins. (Rom 3:25, Rom 5:6-8, Rom 5:15-17, John 12:32, John 3:14-17). Salvation is by grace (Rom 11:6), not works, so that man can never boast. (Rom 6:19-23, Eph 2:8-9, Is 63:4-5, Rom 8:1-4, Acts 13:39, Phil 3:7-9, etc.) How great a salvation is this! It does not come by our merit, but by God's grace. It does not come through our dead works, but through our belief in the Messiah (John 6:28-29, John 3:16). It is a salvation beyond the capacity of man to achieve or offer.

It is a salvation beyond the capacity of man to achieve or offer.

Not only salvation, even faith is beyond the capacity of man to achieve or offer, you agree?

 

[Si_monfaith]

It is not that they are turning to join Jesus, but they have the free will and power to just turn away from obeying briefly (in times they come to their senses) satan, they of their own free will choose in the simple form of giving up, wimping out as one of his soldiers and surrendering to their enemy God (at this point of surrendering God is still their enemy).
The nonbeliever is not a puppet or robot of satan but still has free will enough to briefly stop (come to his senses and make a choice to accept or reject God's charity, this is like the prodigal son).

come to his senses and make a choice

If man has the ability to come to his senses before he makes the choice by his will, why don't all come to senses and make the choice?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Like the man said, there is no contradiction between predestination and salvation through faith.

One correction to something you said in your post though. Calvinists believe and teach that salvation is a gift of God available to all men who will but believe.

Salvation is not received by predestination as you say.

While it is certainly true that only those predestined to believe and elected to be the recipients of His grace will believe and be saved through faith - neither predestination nor election saves anyone - only a personal faith.

Faith saves? Or faith is a product of election?

 

[Si_monfaith]

You believe that the Bible seems to teach it, something that not everyone would agree upon. While I laud the desire to use scripture alone, it does hem you in to having to deal with many scriptures that would seem to conflict with a TULIP approach to Calvinism. For example, how does one reconcile Gods desire that none would perish in 2 Peter 3:9 with a God who creates some humans solely for the purpose of pouring out his wrath and condemning them to hell from before the foundations of the world?

While I believe that the scriptures alone provide enough evidence to negate a TULIP or hyper-Calvinist doctrine, I also believe the logical implications of the characteristics and attributes of God made by Calvinist doctrine are incongruous with the scriptural descriptions of the character of God. I believe God gave us intellectual minds to reason when things are inconsistent, which plays a role in dividing the Word. I have never been evangelized by a Calvinist in any way except them trying to prove that God's love is not extended to everyone. Why the negative focus of Calvinism? Is it possible that there may be a skewed view of God in their doctrine?

Please don't interpret this post as hostility towards Calvinists, but I am interested in how these issues are reconciled in their doctrine.

For example, how does one reconcile Gods desire that none would perish in 2 Peter 3:9 with a God who creates some humans solely for the purpose of pouring out his wrath and condemning them to hell from before the foundations of the world?

Why would God create humans who as you believe have a will which is free to reject His salvation?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Very good explanation. People should pay attention.

Do you believe in 1 Corinthians 12: 3?

 

[bling]

So satan allows them to accept the invitation without God's power of His grace?

People are not robots programmed by satan. the nonbeliever sinner of satan is choosing to obey satan of his/her own free will make them responsible for their own sins. You are a "slave" of whomever you are obeying, so for just a brief time stop obeying satan and turn to God willing to accept God's help. Giving up, wimping out and surrendering are nothing to provide you with anything, but will allow God to shower you with gifts.

 

[bling]

If man has the ability to come to his senses before he makes the choice by his will, why don't all come to senses and make the choice?

All mature adult come to their senses sometime in their life and most likely many times. We are talking about humbly accepting sacrificial charity, which mature adults do not like to do (who likes to be in a situation of having to accept charity over self-reliance.) People even with arthritis do not like to ask people to tie their shoes.

 

[bling]

Why would God create humans who as you believe have a will which is free to reject His salvation?

If people do not like unconditional unselfish sacrificial Love from others or have that type of Love, and would prefer to be loved for the way they want others to perceive them to be, so they would not be happy in heaven since that is the only type of Love there is in heaven. the only way to obtain Godly type Love is through a free will choice, since God cannot program that Love into a person (robotic love) nor can God force that Love on a person (like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Faith saves? Or faith is a product of election?

I'm not sure if that's a question or what.
But I'll take a crack at it anyway.

Justification is through faith alone. I'm equating justification with "saved" for all practical purposes. I think most people would do that.

It is God who saves of course. I'm not sure it would be exactly correct to say that faith itself saves. It may be a matter of semantics though.

While election certainly plays a part in obtaining faith - I don't believe it is exactly correct to say that faith is a "product" of election. Again - it may be a matter of semantics.

Election is the doctrine which says that God chooses some to be enlightened in some way by His Holy Spirit so that they can have faith and say Jesus is Lord. The opposite and understood truth of the doctrine is that He passes other by, since He only chooses some.

Most Calvinists stress that this election is not because of anything in the individual. Some anti-Calvinists accuse Calvinist of teaching that God's election is "random" or "arbitrary". But this is what people call a "straw man". Nothing God does is random or arbitrary and no Calvinist would say so.

Just because we don't know the reason a person is elected and just because we know from scripture that it is not because of their deserving election - does not mean that God does not have a good reason for choosing some and passing others by.

It may be correct to call election "unconditional" or perhaps not, depending on how one looks at things. Full on Calvinists will likely want to shoot me for saying so - but God does respond to the prayers of individuals and of those who pray for them.

Certainly those who will be saved are predestined to be saved from before creation. But that doesn't mean that the "means" (as the Westminster Confession of Faith puts it) to bring what is predestine to occur in time to past cannot included things done by the individual or those praying for him (just as an example for the purpose of this discussion).

IMO some of these things are a bit more murky than many Calvinists would have us believe. The truth of certain doctrines often includes a bit from Calvinist beliefs and also non-Calvinist beliefs. But, enough of that. Doing the theology of some of these maters justice requires more space and time than can be spared by most in a forum like this one.

I believe that the scriptures are clear that those who are save are the ones "given and drawn" to the Son by the Father. They are also clear from the testimony of Jesus that flesh and blood cannot reveal the truth but only the Father in Heaven. Also they are clear that no one can even say Jesus is Lord and mean it in a saving way except by the Holy Spirit.

While some aspects of the giving of the Holy Spirit come post-salvation - it is obvious by this that some aspects come prior to Salvation - i.e. God opened the heart of Lydia so that she might believe. Another example among others would be that Paul was "kicking against the goads" for a time even before God in grace revealed Himself to the un-seeking Pharisee Paul and saved him.

He passes some by and leaves them to their own devices wherewith the scriptures clearly say they will not and indeed cannot understand and receive the things of God.

Faith is a product of the Holy Spirit who is given to some who were elected to receive such who were then given by the Father to the Son according to Jesus.

 

[InterestedApologist]

Why would God create humans who as you believe have a will which is free to reject His salvation?

Because true love cannot exist without the chance of rejection. You cannot force someone to love you, and what reward for you if you could? If you remove the possibility of rejection, you have simply created a slave. God apparently desires to be loved of our own choice and not by slavery, or he wouldn't have allowed the tree to exist in the garden to begin with.

 

[SBC]

So who produces faith in man? God or man?

Reference 1Timothy 1:14

We are not naturally born with faith, but we are naturally born with the ability to believe.

Faith can not be bought or sold.

Faith IS -

Heb 11
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith begins with a mans desire to BELIEVE, and MAKE His decision.

And ANY MAN who has decided, simply has to seek God, and God will reward that man, ie gift that man, with FAITH.

Heb 11
[6] ... he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Because...

Heb 11
[6] ... without faith it is impossible to please him:

So who produces faith in man? God or man?

Man decides his belief.
God rewards a man with a gift called faith, when a man decides to believe in Him, and seeks God.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Faith saves? Or faith is a product of election?

Men believe -
Men who believe who seek God -
God rewards -
A particular reward/gift is called faith - <--- given by God for mans belief & seeking
Men with faith is one thing-
Another thing is called submission - <---- mans life, given by man to God
Submission is like an oath, a pledge, your confirming word to pledge your belief and life
....to God.
Then there are rewards for doing that -
Forgiveness of all sins.
A new heart.
A new seed (ie Gods seed).
A restored soul. (ie saving) <----- given by God to mans soul
A quickened (brought to life, by the seed of God), new spirit.
A sanctified and justified body.
An accounting of being a "son of God".
A receiving of Gods indwelling Holy Spirit.
An impossibility of ever being separated from being with God.

Faith saves? Or faith is a product of election?

To be precise - "saving" is a result of "submission" in faithfulness to God ONLY.
God does the "saving".

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

What must you do to be born again?

Are you referring to us being born again spiritually and made new creations when we die to self and rise in Christ? Or are you referring to us being literally born again into new spiritual bodies at the Ressurection? The two concepts are both linked, and both have their root in faith:

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" II Cor 5:17

(If we are in Christ, we are a new creation.)

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well." - I Jn 5:9

(If we believe that Jesus is Christ, we are born again)

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls." I Pet 1:3-8

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:1-10

We see that by grace, through faith, we are saved and God raises us to be with Christ. We no longer are dead and follow the spirit of the world, but walk by God's spirit.
What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- children born not of natural descent, nor of human will or a husband's will, but born of God" Jn 1:12-13

Those who receive Christ/believe in His name are given the right to be born anew as children of God - not by works, but through faith.

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." Tit 3:4-7 (Rom 8 gets into this as well.)

"He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God."

"I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?...Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith."...He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit....But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe....So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ....
Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”f Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."
(Excerpts from Gal 3 & 4)

Etc. When we come to God through Christ in faith, we are born again as children of God by the power of the Spirit. We become new creations and adopted sons of God. One day, we will receive the promise of new spiritual bodies as well (I Cor 15:35-54.)

 

[Hammster]

Etc. When we come to God through Christ in faith, we are born again as children of God by the power of the Spirit. We become new creations and adopted sons of God. One day, we will receive the promise of new spiritual bodies as well (I Cor 15:35-54.)

That would be synergism. A whole post on what you must do. That's in contrast to monergism.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Unfortunately, the Calvinist TULIP teaching seems to diminish the sovereignty of God. If I understand the theory correctly, God can't delegate (or rather, if he does it's a mere illusion as God is still doing every task Himself); God can't set up natural laws and expect them to continue - they are just an illusion for the sake of man (He has to push around every molecule Himself, every dice roll, every wave of the sea etc. because He can't just command them and expect them to obey); and God can't deal with finite variables because any variable would derail His plan (hence He has to choose who will be saved and make sure they get faith through some method.)
Perhaps I am misunderstanding that and not all Calvinists believe such - but from the many debates on the subject I have engaged in, those are common threads. Quite a number seem to hold that God can't deal with any variables (even when they are finite) to the point where He actually ensures that some people will commit moral evil and even directs it Himself.

The scriptures tell us that He has sent forth His Word to accomplish exactly what He wants accomplished in this age. The scriptures tell us that everything “consists” in His Word. The scriptures tell us that we have our being “in HIM”. In that respect we are indeed in some way extensions of His will and what we are doing is what He is doing. The scriptures are full of examples of the concurrent activities of God and men – both good and evil activities.

I understand that it is extremely to understand much about how these truths about God and His providential involvement in every aspect of His creation can be meshed with our real existence, individuality, and our being objects of His love, beings able to make real choices, and interact with our creator and sustainer in a meaningful way. But the scriptures teach it all. I didn’t write the scriptures obviously. My job is to just believe everything they teach even if I don’t understand exactly how it works and marvel at it leaving no truth out of my theology.

Frankly and bluntly – Calvinists theologians don’t have the luxury which non-Calvinist theologians apparently have to just ignore those rather difficult scriptural facts. They choose to address both the actions of God and the actions of man in a systematic and cohesive manner. I believe they have done it rather well in most cases. IMO there is a reason that most really thorough, systematic, and cohesive works of theology from the Reformation on have been written from a generally Reformed viewpoint.

The Westminster Confession of Faith is the most authoritative document used by Calvinists to teach their doctrines. That being the case you can rest assured that what it teaches is what Calvinists believe.

There are exceptions within Calvinism as well as other teachings not found in the Westminster. Limited Atonement is one such aberrant teaching. Neither John Calvin nor the WCF taught limited atonement as currently taught (the incorrect doctrine which says that Christ died only for the elect).

I’m sure there are about a thousand aberrant teachings to be found in the “non-Calvinist” group as well. How’d you like to defend some of them?BIG SMILEY

I believe the following quotes from the WCF will correct you on your impressions concerning what Calvinists believe. They do NOT present things the way you have said. Natural causes including free will are fully compliant with the decrees of God according to Calvinists.

I have highlighted a few areas where you differ with them as to what you think they believe.

(What they called 2nd causes and means are natural laws and or the free will choices of men and angels.)

The framers were required by the authorities to include all scripture references they used to reach their conclusions and these references and more are available in many places and usually as foot notes in most copies of the confession in print and online.

The 140 compilers of these Calvinist doctrines (with their appropriate accompanying scripture references) met over a period of over 10 years arguing doctrine much as we do here for shorter periods of time. That doesn’t guarantee that their conclusions are right. But it does up the odds that their conclusions a quite a bit more solid than anyone here IMO.

Bear in mind that these are merely brief statements to be used in teaching settings and are not meant to be long and comprehensive theological works.

Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established

Of Providence

I. God the great Creator of all things does uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.

II. Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently [

III. God, in His ordinary providence, makes use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at His pleasure.

Of Free Will

God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil

Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.[

Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he does not perfectly, or only, will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil

The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only

I have included this section on free will which I believe accurately reflects what both Jesus in the gospels taught and what Paul in the Books of Romans and Corinthians taught..

As I see it – you are wrong in your view about many of the things which Calvinists believe and whether their scriptural basis is solid.

I can't and won't defend their incorrect doctrines or their often bad attitudes. But then neither should you have to defend the same things put out by non-Calvinists.

P.S.
This is just responding to a small portion of your post not all for the reasons I stated earlier.

This is a long answer to that small portion in spite of what I said about shunning such things. But then it is meant as bit of a resource. As I said before - I don't want a really long point for point debate about these things - just a point at a time would be fine.

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

With all due respect ---- I believe one error of anti-Calvinists is equating predestination with salvation. Calvinists do not.
The point of predestination is determining beforehand just what will happen throughout the history of God's creation (or be allowed to happen if you must),

I don't think anyone is saying Calvinists are saying predestination *is* salvation, but rather that the theory seems to be saying that salvation is determinate by predestination alongside of faith (or even that faith is determined by predestination) and hence that salvation is by both predestination and faith.

This is the sovereign choice of God and it is according to His wise and perfect will. It is also the key to understanding just how God can be "sovereign" in all that happens in His creation and still give the gift of "free" choice to His creatures.

I think all in this thread would agree that the plan of salvation God devised, being through faith in Christ alone, is by His sovereign choice, grace, and will. The difference is that some advocate that the gospel is offered to all men as God desires all to be saved, but the plan does not ensure everyone will be as not all will respond in faith; while others seem to advocate that God picked out specific individuals to be saved and so those few are either given faith or regenerated/overwhelmed so they are ensured to respond in faith, etc., while other individuals remain in condemnation and are unable to respond to the gospel in faith by God's choice.

God's determining that I will choose a certain thing requires His "forcing" me to make that choice or eliminating my ability to do so NO MORE THAN determining that an earthquake will take place when Christ was crucified required that He eliminate or manipulate the laws of geology.

Again, the Greek term predestination is not like the English term destiny. It doesn't refer to God determining that individuals will pick certain things. The word proorízō' is to pre-horizon - literally to limit or establish boundaries beforehand. Boundaries - not movement at the level of molecules and individual activity. God certainly can intervene in nature or history to work at that level (and frequently has) but there is nothing in the term to ensure He must always choose every action and motion.

God setting up the boundaries of the sea and telling the waves they can move 'this far, and no further' is a classic example of predestination, as is God determining the boundaries of nations and their alloted time upon the Earth.

[/QUOTE]

By the way, you are equating the doctrine of predestination with the doctrine of election. It's a common mistake. [/QUOTE]

While not the same, the two concepts are related in Calvinism, as in TULIP God only predestines the elect to be saved.

In scripture the terms are somewhat linked, though not quite in the same manner. God predestined the way of salvation (faith) by which we become His chosen children (elect adopted sons.)

Predestination deals with God’s omnipotence. The word itself means to “to mark out beforehand’; to pre-establish limits and boundaries. Specifically, this word references how God set limits/boundaries/laws upon everything before creation. He set the laws of physics, placed the boundaries of the sea, determined the eternal plan by which mankind would be saved, etc (Prov 8:22-31, Eph 1:3-10, Eph 3:10-11, Job 38:33, Rom 8:29, etc).

In the plan of salvation, God also predestined it to include the gentiles, not just the Jews (Eph 3:2-6, Rom 3:21-31, Rom 9:1-26, Rom 15:5-13, John 1:11-13, Isa 45:9-10, Rom 9:11-16, etc).

Predestination does not mean God decided the specific movement of every person and molecule, but rather that He in His power and wisdom set the rules and limits by which space, time, and people are bound. In regards to man, God set laws regarding sin and righteousness, and the consequence of death for sin. In regards to salvation, God predestined that only Christ was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He predestined that Christ would need to die to cover man’s sin. He predestined that all who believed would be adopted as sons and granted eternal life, etc.

How does predestination work as described by scripture?
Is God sovereign or do we have a free will?

Elect means chosen/select, such as how God chose Israel among all the nations of the world to be His people. In like manner, God also chose all who believed in the promise of the savior; both Jew and Gentile; to be His daughters and sons.

Fundamental to the concept of election is that it is by God’s good pleasure that a people is chosen, not by works or the wisdom of man. Israel had nothing to recommend her, nor was Israel even a nation, when God chose her (Ezek 16:1-14, Deut 7:6) to be His treasured possession. God not only favored Israel as His people, but predestined the savior to come through Israel (Is 9:6-7, Jer 33:20-21). He chose Israel to redeem a people for Himself and to magnify His name (II Sam 7:23).

Likewise, it pleased God to choose/elect His people not by anything works we have done or any favor with men, but rather to redeem us as a people through the blood of Christ alone (Eph 1:3-14). This way, it is by God’s mercy and not by man’s might or wisdom (I Cor 1:20-21, I Cor 2:5, Titus 3:4-6). By coming to God by the way He predestined for us - faith in Christ alone, we are redeemed by God as His people for the praise of His name (I Pet 1:1-10, Eph 1:3-14, Luke 12:27-33).

You are also linking the decrees of God or just what He will and will not do or allow in history (resulting in the predestination of all things) exclusively with the choice of certain men to believe the gospel and act on it or not to do so. That's also a common mistake.

I do not think anyone disagrees that God often influences history and restricts it so that it will play out in conformity to His plan.

However, Calvinists do seem to apply this at an individual level to every person - that many remain in condemnation and are unable to have faith, while others God explicitly chooses to get faith (by either being given it or some other proposed method of the Spirit regenerating them and overwhelming them so they must respond in faith without resistance.) If that is not what TULIP teaches, then great! It would be wonderful if that was merely a misunderstanding of the theory.

But you simply will not agree that the exercise of faith by certain people was predestined from before the foundation of the world to be exercised.

If you could point to a scripture that says 'and you were predestined to have faith...' or 'God chose you to have faith,' it might be simpler to find agreement.

The scriptures on predestination seem to show that God predestined believers to be adopted as His sons and gain all the other benefits and promises of salvation.

The scriptures on election (who are the chosen adopted sons) show it is based in God's foreknowledge, not just picking people outside of His planned criteria of faith.

You also don't seem to acknowledge that God is the author of our faith and that only some are given the special grace needed to exercise saving faith.

It's important to look at the Greek definitions of terms, vs. taking the connotations from English translations and assuming those are what the verse is speaking of.

Jesus is also the 'pioneer' of our faith; this is the greek 'archégos' - it means 'the first in a long procession'; the founder of a movement or a file-leader. Jesus is the firstborn among many brethren (Rom 8:28-30), and through Him we receive the promise of the Spirit (Gal 3:13-14).

'Author' is not actually the best translation, especially when some seem to take the connotations of the English term author and build doctrine off of that!

Heb 12:2 tells us that Jesus Himself is the "pioneer and perfecter of faith". 'Perfecter' of faith, in the context of Heb 12:1-13, is how our faith is refined through trials and discipline. Because it is Jesus who refines our faith, we then can endure anything for the Joy set before us. Paul lists many things we can do as we focus on our Hope in Christ; throw off what hinders, run, consider Him, resist sin, endure hardship as discipline, strengthen our feeble arms, make level paths, etc.
What does it mean that Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith?
What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

No scripture claims that there is a special grace, vs. all the many graces God gave man through Christ and the Spirit and through the spread of the gospel, needed for some to respond to the gospel in faith. Christ's work on the cross was sufficient grace for any to respond. The spirit convicts unbelievers of sin, God is revealed in Christ, God's power and truth revealed by Christ's resurrection, the exact method (faith) revealed through the gospel message as taught by Christ, Christ draws all things and people to Him by His death, etc.

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

That would be synergism. A whole post on what you must do. That's in contrast to monergism.

We've been through this, repeatedly. Responding to the gospel in faith is not synergism. Is it ever described in scripture as a dead work? Is it every described as accomplishing part of salvation, vs. being the method by which God promises to apply Christ's work to our behalf and guarantee future promises? How is trusting in what Christ accomplished on our behalf 'accomplishing' anything on our own?

Synergism is when two chemicals/drugs/etc. interact and augment the effects more than either could on their own. Two medicines that combine to form a more potent treatment, for example. Synergism isn't the act of taking a pill, the pill acting on the body, taking some water with a pill, etc. The term only refers to two objects/chemicals/etc. that each have effect combining and leading to a multiplication (not addition) of effect.

Monergism and synergism, in theology, are not strict premises of themselves [such as God alone saves vs. Man saves himself], but are rather theological buzzwords. 'Monergism' is a theory describing factors surrounding salvation, 'Synergism' is a strawman theory created to accuse what anyone not believing the monergist theory 'must' believe in.

As such, the terms themselves must be analyzed and the false dichotomy of the two theories presented before the real topic; salvation; can be studied.

Monergism, in theology, is the theory that *because* God alone saves, then God 'must' subsequently bring salvation about by the spiritual regeneration of certain individuals, without their consent or control, so that they may have faith.

Note that this is not a premise of itself, but rather a conclusion a couple steps away:

Premise: God alone saves (All Christians would agree with this)
Premise: If man can choose to be convinced/have faith then he would be participating in his own salvation (Not all Christians agree with this)
Conclusion: Man cannot have faith of his own volition.
Premise: The Spirit could regenerate man so he could have faith.
Conclusion: God must regenerate certain men through the spirit so they will have faith.

The above is vastly simplified, but you can see that Monergism is not as simple as the idea "God alone saves". Instead it is a theory developed from that starting point.

Synergism is a buzzword usually used to describe how Calvinists perceive any non-Calvinist presentation of salvation; namely that any view contrary to monergism must hold that man contributes to saving himself.

As such, it is not a theory people hold of themselves (usually), but rather a "prop" theory to argue against.

In the monergist view, claiming sinful man could have faith is equivalent to claiming that man saves himself, at least in part, and hence the idea that man can obey/have faith without prior spiritual regeneration is branded 'synergism'.

This is what is known in logic as a "false dichotomy". Two ideas are presented, and one is asked to decide 'either/or'. One is pressured to choose a "side", vs. Examining the actual premise or the definitions involved. Often, these 'sides' are presented by a person who only believes one, and so the view he/she opposes is often a false presentation, a characterization, or presented through a distorted lens.

This leads to factions and divisions, as those just beginning to study an issue are told that one idea or another is more Biblical, more spiritual, more humble, etc. This may lead to the further consequence of scripture being redefined or ignored in order to hang onto the chosen theory, and errors become more and more entrenched over time, as the person who has taken a side feels he "must" hold to it, lest he fall into the "even worse" errors of the other side.

Some resolve this simply by choosing not to resolve the problem, saying "It's a mystery", or "It's unknowable", and then doing their best not to think about it. Others resolve this, partially, by becoming experts in where the "other side" is wrong. The best resolution is to avoid, as far as possible, the trap that any Biblical concept can be completely summed up by a theory of man or popular buzzword; or that any one person or theory will have all the answers.

God alone accomplishes salvation, as man cannot save himself.
But what is salvation? Salvation is deliverance. It has connotations both of what one is delivered from (sin, affliction, poverty, captivity, etc.) and of what one is delivered into (righteousness, welfare, prosperity, freedom, etc.)

Yet, there is nothing inherent in the concept of salvation that would mean a captive accepting salvation 'works with' the savior.

 

[Hammster]

We've been through this, repeatedly. Responding to the gospel in faith is not synergism. Is it ever described in scripture as a dead work? Is it every described as accomplishing part of salvation, vs. being the method by which God promises to apply Christ's work to our behalf and guarantee future promises? How is trusting in what Christ accomplished on our behalf 'accomplishing' anything on our own?

Synergism is when two chemicals/drugs/etc. interact and augment the effects more than either could on their own. Two medicines that combine to form a more potent treatment, for example. Synergism isn't the act of taking a pill, the pill acting on the body, taking some water with a pill, etc. The term only refers to two objects/chemicals/etc. that each have effect combining and leading to a multiplication (not addition) of effect.

Monergism and synergism, in theology, are not strict premises of themselves [such as God alone saves vs. Man saves himself], but are rather theological buzzwords. 'Monergism' is a theory describing factors surrounding salvation, 'Synergism' is a strawman theory created to accuse what anyone not believing the monergist theory 'must' believe in.

As such, the terms themselves must be analyzed and the false dichotomy of the two theories presented before the real topic; salvation; can be studied.

Monergism, in theology, is the theory that *because* God alone saves, then God 'must' subsequently bring salvation about by the spiritual regeneration of certain individuals, without their consent or control, so that they may have faith.

Note that this is not a premise of itself, but rather a conclusion a couple steps away:

Premise: God alone saves (All Christians would agree with this)
Premise: If man can choose to be convinced/have faith then he would be participating in his own salvation (Not all Christians agree with this)
Conclusion: Man cannot have faith of his own volition.
Premise: The Spirit could regenerate man so he could have faith.
Conclusion: God must regenerate certain men through the spirit so they will have faith.

The above is vastly simplified, but you can see that Monergism is not as simple as the idea "God alone saves". Instead it is a theory developed from that starting point.

Synergism is a buzzword usually used to describe how Calvinists perceive any non-Calvinist presentation of salvation; namely that any view contrary to monergism must hold that man contributes to saving himself.

As such, it is not a theory people hold of themselves (usually), but rather a "prop" theory to argue against.

In the monergist view, claiming sinful man could have faith is equivalent to claiming that man saves himself, at least in part, and hence the idea that man can obey/have faith without prior spiritual regeneration is branded 'synergism'.

This is what is known in logic as a "false dichotomy". Two ideas are presented, and one is asked to decide 'either/or'. One is pressured to choose a "side", vs. Examining the actual premise or the definitions involved. Often, these 'sides' are presented by a person who only believes one, and so the view he/she opposes is often a false presentation, a characterization, or presented through a distorted lens.

This leads to factions and divisions, as those just beginning to study an issue are told that one idea or another is more Biblical, more spiritual, more humble, etc. This may lead to the further consequence of scripture being redefined or ignored in order to hang onto the chosen theory, and errors become more and more entrenched over time, as the person who has taken a side feels he "must" hold to it, lest he fall into the "even worse" errors of the other side.

Some resolve this simply by choosing not to resolve the problem, saying "It's a mystery", or "It's unknowable", and then doing their best not to think about it. Others resolve this, partially, by becoming experts in where the "other side" is wrong. The best resolution is to avoid, as far as possible, the trap that any Biblical concept can be completely summed up by a theory of man or popular buzzword; or that any one person or theory will have all the answers.

God alone accomplishes salvation, as man cannot save himself.
But what is salvation? Salvation is deliverance. It has connotations both of what one is delivered from (sin, affliction, poverty, captivity, etc.) and of what one is delivered into (righteousness, welfare, prosperity, freedom, etc.)

Yet, there is nothing inherent in the concept of salvation that would mean a captive accepting salvation 'works with' the savior.

Lots of words. I'm not sure why the term bothers you. It just means that your salvation is in part dependent on some action from you. You believe that you must believe to be born again. I do not.