Jesus is Jehovah's "holy servant"

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

And, the fact that Jesus was born, grew into the man from Nazareth, that God exalted to be Christ, Lord, Prince and Savior, proves clearly, God IS with us... even though Satan is against us.
Acts 2:29-36 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

yes God is always with us regardless of what we do or Satan trys to do if that's what you're saying here I believe that's what you're saying. And God was with us as JESUS christ. He still is with us but was referring to when he was manifest in flesh there.

 

[friend of]

In addition, there is a verse that states that Jesus did no wrong when He claimed to be equal with God, isn't there?

Philippians 2:5-7

 

[brinny]

Philippians 2:5-7

Yes, that's it.

Thank you.

 

[Kellz]

if Jesus is, in fact, God, how can they have separate wills? Matthew 26:39 & John 5:30.

 

[tstor]

I doubt you even know which version I'm quoting.

And which version are you using for your arguments? The authorized Jehovah's Witness version that redacts important words from the Bible?

You were using the King James Version of the Bible. I cannot say which translation @Dartman prefers, but the New World Translation is a perfectly good translation of the original languages. If you have any doubts about that, please let me know of any verse(s) you believe "redact important words." I would be happy to clarify. I will be using the Darby translation for this post.

It's not my "spin" it's what the text of the Bible actually says. The Bible cannot contradict itself. When Jesus says "the Father and I are One" I will believe His word, tyvm.

Consider the context of John 10:30. No one is asking you to deny the Words of God.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye do not believe. The works which I do in my Father's name, these bear witness concerning me:

26 but ye do not believe, for ye are not of my sheep, as I told you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;

28 and I give them life eternal; and they shall never perish, and no one shall seize them out of my hand.

29 My Father who has given [them] to me is greater than all, and no one can seize out of the hand of my Father.

30 I and the Father are one.
​

The discussion surrounding verse 30 consists of the "sheep" and how the Father puts them into the Son's hand. The sense in which they are "one" is in regard to purpose. They are in unity. This unity in will is expressed earlier in the Gospel of John in chapter 6:

36 But I have said to you, that ye have also seen me and do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and him that comes to me I will not at all cast out.

38 For I am come down from heaven, not that I should do *my* will, but the will of him that has sent me.

39 And this is the will of him that has sent me, that of all that he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up in the last day.

40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son, and believes on him, should have life eternal; and I will raise him up at the last day.​

Note the similarity between the two passages. Both speak of the Father giving the "sheep" to the Son. The Son came down to do the will of the Father, which was to raise up all that the Father had given Him (the "sheep") on the last day. This is echoed in chapter 10 and it is declared that the Father and Son are "one." They are "one" in mission, will, or purpose.

It should also be noted that the doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that the Father and Son are "one" as you are trying to interpret John 10:30.

 

[tstor]

Is Jesus the Christ to be worshiped?

Yes.

In addition, there is a verse that states that Jesus did no wrong when He claimed to be equal with God, isn't there?

Not to my knowledge.

Was Jesus sinless?

Yes.

 

[brinny]

Yes.


Not to my knowledge.


Yes.

tstor, regarding the verse i was asking about, it's this one that our brother, Friend of, was kind enough to post:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" ~Philippians 2:5-7

 

[tstor]

tstor, regarding the verse i was asking about, it's this one that our brother, Friend of, was kind enough to post:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" ~Philippians 2:5-7

I made a post on here regarding Unitarian interpretations of this passage here:
Arian vs Socinian interpretation of Philippians 2:5-9

However, I would recommend the following article written by Greg Stafford:
http://elihubooks.com/data/lampstand/000/000/001/PHP_2_Revised.pdf

I believe that Jesus was "in the form of God" prior to taking "the form of a servant," which is directly stated in Philippians 2. To clarify what "form of God" means, one should look at Hebrews 1 (Darby):

1 God having spoken in many parts and in many ways formerly to the fathers in the prophets,

2 at the end of these days has spoken to us in [the person of the] Son, whom he has established heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 who being [the] effulgence of his glory and [the] expression of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, having made [by himself] the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high,

4 taking a place by so much better than the angels, as he inherits a name more excellent than they.
​

Jesus was a charakter of the Father's substance. That is, he was an "expression," or "copy." This indicates a temporal difference between the Father and His Son. So, I suppose one could say that Jesus shared some sort of "equality" or "likeness" (as described in the article written by Mr. Stafford). However, it would be a stretch to suggest this results in the divinity of Jesus as described in the doctrine of the trinity.

 

[brinny]

I made a post on here regarding Unitarian interpretations of this passage here:
Arian vs Socinian interpretation of Philippians 2:5-9

However, I would recommend the following article written by Greg Stafford:
http://elihubooks.com/data/lampstand/000/000/001/PHP_2_Revised.pdf

I believe that Jesus was "in the form of God" prior to taking "the form of a servant," which is directly stated in Philippians 2. To clarify what "form of God" means, one should look at Hebrews 1 (Darby):

1 God having spoken in many parts and in many ways formerly to the fathers in the prophets,

2 at the end of these days has spoken to us in [the person of the] Son, whom he has established heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 who being [the] effulgence of his glory and [the] expression of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, having made [by himself] the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high,

4 taking a place by so much better than the angels, as he inherits a name more excellent than they.
​

Jesus was a charakter of the Father's substance. That is, he was an "expression," or "copy." This indicates a temporal difference between the Father and His Son. So, I suppose one could say that Jesus shared some sort of "equality" or "likeness" (as described in the article written by Mr. Stafford). However, it would be a stretch to suggest this results in the divinity of Jesus as described in the doctrine of the trinity.

Thank you kindly for sharing your views.

A question:

Did Jesus need a Savior?

 

[tstor]

Thank you kindly for sharing your views.

A question:

Did Jesus need a Savior?

Not a problem. To answer your question, no. He was in the form of God prior to coming to earth. Once he gave up that form and took on the form a servant (human), he lived a sinless life. This means he did not need to be saved.

 

[brinny]

Not a problem. To answer your question, no. He was in the form of God prior to coming to earth. Once he gave up that form and took on the form a servant (human), he lived a sinless life. This means he did not need to be saved.

Thank you for your kindly response.

Why was He sent to earth?

 

[danny ski]

The Scriptures clearly state Jehovah/YHVH alone is God, alone is the Creator of the heavens, and the earth ..... and that Jesus is HIS servant;

Isaiah 42
42 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house. 8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

Acts 4
24 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, Thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is: 25 who by the holy spirit, by the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say,

Why did the Gentiles rage,
And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array,
And the rulers were gathered together,
Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:

27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, 28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass. 29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto Thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness, 30 while thou stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken wherein they were gathered together; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

This is a spurious argumentation since the prophet Isaiah named the "servant" several times. And it ain't Jesus.

 

[tstor]

Thank you for your kindly response.

Why was He sent to earth?

To save God's elect.

 

[brinny]

To save God's elect.

How?

Thank you kindly.

 

[tstor]

How?

Thank you kindly.

By serving as the second Adam, the perfect Lamb. He came to earth and lived a sinless life. He proved to God that a perfect human could live a perfect and sinless life, something that Adam failed to prove.

 

[gadar perets]

And God was with us as JESUS christ.

Absolutely not true. God was IN Yeshua;

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

 

[gadar perets]

tstor, regarding the verse i was asking about, it's this one that our brother, Friend of, was kind enough to post:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" ~Philippians 2:5-7

That is a poor translation. God has no equal. Other versions translate the verse 6 as follows;

"who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
​

The Son was certainly not equal to his Father YHWH (God) while he was in the flesh (John 13:16; John 14:28). Nor is he equal to his Father YHWH at this time ( 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 15:27). Nor will he be equal to his Father YHWH after all things are put in subjection to the Son (1 Corinthians 15:28).

 

[gadar perets]

He was in the form of God prior to coming to earth. Once he gave up that form and took on the form a servant (human), he lived a sinless life.

Your faith designation says "Unitarian", but I know of no Unitarians that believe the Son preexisted in the "form of God". Can you provide a link to a group you are affiliated with or tell me what branch/kind of Unitarian you are?

 

[gadar perets]

This is a spurious argumentation since the prophet Isaiah named the "servant" several times. And it ain't Jesus.

The "servant" in Isaiah 42:1-7 is Messiah Yeshua in whom YHWH delights. The blind "servant" in Isaiah 42:17-25 who is idolatrous and prone to breaking YHWH's laws and who were the recipients of His anger is the nation of Israel.

 

[tstor]

Your faith designation says "Unitarian", but I know of no Unitarians that believe the Son preexisted in the "form of God". Can you provide a link to a group you are affiliated with or tell me what branch/kind of Unitarian you are?

Mainly Greg Stafford is the one who articulates this belief. One could say Jehovah's Witnesses are pretty close. Or really any Arian(ist) group.