Recurring Problem

[OK Jeff]

My thoughts are definitely spiraling. It's gotten worse since I started this topic. There's definitely more resentment boiling under the surface than I realized.

 

[Endeavourer]

I am not sure how that plays out with various issues. If a husband didn't want to actually sit and talk with his wife more than once every two weeks, would we really think that is OK because he is being true to his desires? Or would we tell him that he might want to try to sit and talk more even if he doesn't feel like it, and the intimacy built might make it more enjoyable over time? We might also point out that his wife would like to talk to him more often than once every two weeks.

That link actually described a beautiful way to meet your spouse's needs in a way that both of you enjoy. If one spouse is coerced into meeting a need in a way they didn't enjoy, then the coerced spouse becomes resentful. The strategy outlined in the link helps marriages avoid resentment, which is poison to marriages.

Did you read the link? You may agree more with the idea after reading the details than you did with the summary description.

Dr. Harley's advice is based on his observations of what actually works (and doesn't work) in 10,000's of couples. His entire system of marriagebuilding has little to do with what any textbooks say, just what he has observed to work for couples who stay in love, and what doesn't work for couples who don't.

What doesn't work is for either spouse to start feeling resentment, as that creates a bitterness and sometimes an aversion that is hard to overcome.

 

[Endeavourer]

Valid point, all of it.
I began the absolute refusal some years back as a defense to the constant rejection. But I was a different man then. For one, I had no idea what intimacy was/is. Sex was only about the release. Perhaps I should indeed let go of the old resentments and try again with The Lord involved.

Amen!

Your resentments are likely based on false assumptions and have not only damaged you but your marriage as well.

There is something that is not persuading her to desire sex. Perhaps she felt used earlier in your marriage when sex was about your release and not intimacy, so perhaps that affected her desire for sex.

Perhaps it's your technique of non-pursuit which does not inspire her to desire sex.

Usually sexual problems in marriages are not problems about sex per se, but about underlying issues that, when resolved, take care of the sexual problems.

 

[Endeavourer]

Jeff, do you ever have angry outbursts?

Do you ever make sarcastic comments about your wife to her?

If so, those two things will kill a woman's sex drive for at least a week or two afterwards, until you have done enough loving actions for her to be able to move on from that memory. Eventually it starts taking longer and longer....

 

[Dave-W]

That link actually described a beautiful way to meet your spouse's needs in a way that both of you enjoy.

Not everyone has a "need."

Some have felt that it was God's will for them to kill all needs and feelings immediately on puberty to avoid the sin of lust. Once turned off, turning them back on is difficult and some find it impossible.

 

[OK Jeff]

Jeff, do you ever have angry outbursts?

Do you ever make sarcastic comments about your wife to her?

If so, those two things will kill a woman's sex drive for at least a week or two afterwards, until you have done enough loving actions for her to be able to move on from that memory. Eventually it starts taking longer and longer....

Admittedly yes, sometimes. It's always during the longer end of our cycle, that is when we haven't "known" each other for a couple weeks. That doesn't excuse it I know. But that's always when. I am always quick to apologize, sometimes immediately. But I know that doesn't undo what's been done.

 

[Goatee]

Of course she 100% loved sex! An affair is a fantasy where the two people involved are addicted to each other and simply playing house without the realities of life intruding.

Marry her, and welcome yourself to hell on earth. "Affairages" are notoriously horrible and unsurvivable.

I think the OP does not need uncaring comments like yours!

 

[OK Jeff]

I think the OP does not need uncaring comments like yours!

Honestly thought it was a pretty good comment. But thanks for the thought

 

[Goatee]

Honestly thought it was a pretty good comment. But thanks for the thought

Ok, that's fine but to me it was sarcastic

 

[OK Jeff]

Ok, that's fine but to me it was sarcastic

Little bit yes. But I can be pretty sarcastic myself. Lol

 

[Endeavourer]

I think the OP does not need uncaring comments like yours!

Goatee, I did not mean to offend you, so I'm very sorry about that.

However, it is true that "affairages" are literally impossible to maintain. Once married, two affair partners are in an entirely new dynamic.

Marriage counselors have found two types of relationships to be literally impossible to counsel, and they are same sex relationships and affairages.

It might be something for you to look into if you were considering marrying your affair partner.

 

[Endeavourer]

Admittedly yes, sometimes. It's always during the longer end of our cycle, that is when we haven't "known" each other for a couple weeks. That doesn't excuse it I know. But that's always when. I am always quick to apologize, sometimes immediately. But I know that doesn't undo what's been done.

Ah, ok.

It may surprise you, but anger can be literally more destructive to a marriage than an affair would be.

I know of a marriage where the husband had an affair and was also prone to anger outbursts every 3 weeks or so. The marriage dissolved because the wife could no longer bear up under the outbursts, not because of the affair.

If you read the references to anger in Proverbs, you will see that anger literally renders someone into an idiot. You may perceive your anger to be little, but that's because you're not on the receiving end.

Often a wife's desire for sex is a canary in the coal mine. Her emotions and feelings about all of your behaviors or actions are intricately entwined with desire.

What's really challenging about this is that often the wife doesn't realize this intertwining; she just doesn't really desire sex at that time and she can't even explain to you (or even herself) why she lacks desire.

Your problem may have very little to do with sex.

 

[Goatee]

Goatee, I did not mean to offend you, so I'm very sorry about that.

However, it is true that "affairages" are literally impossible to maintain. Once married, two affair partners are in an entirely new dynamic.

Marriage counselors have found two types of relationships to be literally impossible to counsel, and they are same sex relationships and affairages.

It might be something for you to look into if you were considering marrying your affair partner.

Ok, thank you my friend. Good advice.

 

[Goatee]

With my wife it was the simple fact that she was never interested in sex much. She admitted it to me when we were courting. I thought that she would mature in time. She was only 18.

But, as time progressed in our married life I could see that she indeed had no real interest in intimacy.

Obviously we talked about it but no pressure was put on her etc.

In over 30 years together we were lucky if we made love twice a year! The last 10 years nil. Zilch, nothing!

I guess some women are just not interested. Even a cuddle or hug was unwanted!

 

[Endeavourer]

Ok, thank you my friend. Good advice.

Thank you for your graciousness, Goatee.

 

[tall73]

That link actually described a beautiful way to meet your spouse's needs in a way that both of you enjoy. If one spouse is coerced into meeting a need in a way they didn't enjoy, then the coerced spouse becomes resentful. The strategy outlined in the link helps marriages avoid resentment, which is poison to marriages.

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. I agreed that trying to coerce her is a poor idea. However, even that link admitted that the process requires negotiation, actually caring about the other person's desires, etc. She is not even willing to discuss this issue with him. A couple that is unwilling to talk cannot practice anything in that link. He indicates that one person can help change a marriage IF the other person is willing to learn to negotiate (one of the frequently asked questions.)

If his wife refuses to talk about it and actually calls him a pervert and mocks his suggestion to try to alter his own behavior to help the situation, then she is not building joint agreement. She is being harsh toward him, and not considering his situation.

According to the article anything that both do not have enthusiastic agreement on should be stopped. I would certainly say he would not enthusiastically agree to be called a pervert for wanting sex with his wife.

The reality is that joint agreement only works when people will talk . She won't talk about this. So they can hardly have enthusiastic agreement on any part of it.


Now, as to enthusiastic agreement, I do think it is a good policy in many cases. However, I do not always limit myself to what I can enthusiastically do or I might not do much. Some things should be done whether I feel like it or not. And some things I might not initially feel like doing but I choose to do them for her. Note I didn't say she compels me to. But I do not wait until I am overwhelmed with enthusiasm. The issue in both that article and what I am describing is that you have to have concern for the needs of the other person, and enough communication to actually know what those are.

 

[ExodusMe]

ExodousMe, how about if you ask a few women how they would feel about participating in "Biblically" mandated sex that they weren't otherwise interested in and report back as to whether that will solve or aggravate the problem....

your suggestion is to say he shouldn't bring up the bible because it might make her want sex less? He already isn't having sex. God isn't concerned with whether the wife or husband enjoys sex. That should be a given fruit of a godly marriage. He is concerned with the wellbeing of the marriage. Do you care at all whether this man ends up cheating on his wife becaise of your poor advice? That is what the bible says regular sex is for. It is to prevent infidelity. It may be uncomfortable for a wife or husband who wants to be selfish but I don't think it should prevent him from bringing it up.

If they start having sex regularly she will learn to enjoy it even if it is through biblical mandate...

 

[Goatee]

Look at my posts and learn from them. Don't let it get as bad as it was / is for me!

 

[OK Jeff]

Look at my posts and learn from them. Don't let it get as bad as it was / is for me!

I haven't deliberately glazed over your experience. It puts a knot in my throat to think what it would be like to have been in your situation. It also makes me realize how dire my situation is apt to get.

 

[Endeavourer]

your suggestion is to say he shouldn't bring up the bible because it might make her want sex less? He already isn't having sex. God isn't concerned with whether the wife or husband enjoys sex. That should be a given fruit of a godly marriage. He is concerned with the wellbeing of the marriage. Do you care at all whether this man ends up cheating on his wife becaise of your poor advice? That is what the bible says regular sex is for. It is to prevent infidelity. It may be uncomfortable for a wife or husband who wants to be selfish but I don't think it should prevent him from bringing it up.

If they start having sex regularly she will learn to enjoy it even if it is through biblical mandate...

ExodousMe, this article describes what happens when a husband tries to take it there.

It's written by a counselor who bases his advice on observations of what works with the ten thousands of of couples he has worked with, instead of personal or textbook theories.

He is a Christian and never advises something he feels is contrary to the Bible. Based on his observations of marital patterns which are so similar as to literally be predictable, he has learned to relate much more counsel from the Bible to the marital relationship than the verses we tend to instinctively limit ourselves to.

Once I compared his observations to my marriage and decided "God is not the author of confusion. He doesn't command us to spend our life striving after that which does not work, especially in a relationship that is to mirror our relationship with Christ. Therefore, what works is the answer. Why?", it was like the scales were taken off my eyes and suddenly I saw 100's of Scriptural encouragements, instructions and remedies that were standing there right before my nose the whole time.

What do you think of this article?

How to Overcome Sexual Aversion