Recurring Problem

[OK Jeff]

2 to 4 times a month is good i would say.

Maybe you should turn her down next time she wants sex. Let her see how it feels. Maybe no sex for a month or so.

Haha. I'm not capable.
In all seriousness, if I had the will power to do so, my fear is she wouldn't notice or care. And as I said previously, I wouldn't wish that feeling of rejection on anyone.

 

[ExodusMe]

Bring it up to your pator if you consider this a serious issue. She cannot deny you sex on bibliCal grounds. Maybe God is using this opportunity to bring you closer to the fold.

Send him an email as it might be hard to strike it up in general convo.

 

[ExodusMe]

Paul says not to abstain from sex unless there is an agreement because it can lead to infidelity. This is entirely logical and hard to say to your wife as it is usually taken as a threat. There needs to be a third party with authority to speak.

 

[Endeavourer]

I would not advise demanding sex on Biblical grounds, as coercing a woman into sex she is not enthusiastic about will naturally create an aversion to sex which will only compound your problem.

Better honey than vinegar.....

 

[ExodusMe]

I would not advise demanding sex on Biblical grounds, as coercing a woman into sex she is not enthusiastic about will naturally create an aversion to sex which will only compound your problem.

Better honey than vinegar.....

naw that is silly. He could be tempted to infidelity. He is already frustrated. Could easily turn to pornography if not already. If they both are enjoying it then it sounds like a control issue or something.

 

[Endeavourer]

ExodousMe, how about if you ask a few women how they would feel about participating in "Biblically" mandated sex that they weren't otherwise interested in and report back as to whether that will solve or aggravate the problem....

 

[OK Jeff]

I guess what's the most frustrating is her total refusal to even talk about it.

 

[OK Jeff]

It makes me feel...dismissed, irrelevant. THe ridicule that's come with any attempt at discussion is more hurtful than anything

 

[Endeavourer]

Has your wife ever said anything to give a clue on her low frequency of desire? If not, would she come here to talk to us?

 

[tall73]

The thing is, many times she'll try to kill me with it for a particular week of the month. But even then, that's the only week she wants it. I really think it's physical. Three weeks is a long time to wait.

This is why I mentioned checking hormone levels. If she enjoys sex, but just has interest for a few days to a week out of the month, it may be due to fluctuations in hormones. In general women's sex drive fluctuates due to their ovulation cycle and the hormones involved.

You might try reading the following abstract which could explain why your wife wants sex a lot for a week or so, and then interest declines.
Hormonal predictors of sexual motivation in natural menstrual cycles - ScienceDirect

Essentially once the progesterone kicks in during the cycle sexual drive goes down. This doesn't mean that women never want sex outside of that one week. But it does mean they are biologically more likely to be receptive to sexual advances during that time.

At times, especially as women age, there may be imbalances in the hormone levels, resulting in less overall drive. She may be able to understand in the abstract that you want sex more often, and may want to try to do it more often due the situation, but her body is just not responding to that intellectual reality due to hormone issues.

Do you generally know the timing of her cycle? See if this corresponds. Sometimes we do not realize how much of a role hormones play in desire. From a biological perspective, however, this makes sense. A woman's peak desire correlates roughly with the time in her cycle that she is most fertile.

Now that may not necessarily help with the urges for you the other three weeks. But it does explain why she may enjoy sex with you, yet primarily feel this desire during one part of the month. So this may indicate that she is not intentionally rejecting you, as much as acting on biological reality. You may need to discuss all of this with your wife and see if hormone testing is needed. You may also need to explain to her that your drive is also somewhat hormone driven, but does not follow the same cycle, and therefore can be problematic during the time she is less inclined. It doesn't make you a pervert, it makes you a normal male.

 

[tall73]

???

Which is it? It seems that you're angry with her either way. It almost seems like you're wanting to curb your drive so you can tell HER...."no, thank you" as a sort of pay-back.

It seems like you're resentful in being available for her. Are there times you're begrudgingly agreeing.....or just resentful that she never has to "go without"? One way or another......that resentment needs to be kicked to the curb.

He did not say he wanted to reject her. His only solution he can think of is to diminish his drive so that he doesn't want it as often as he does now, with the hope that their drives might even out.

On the other hand, if she sells herbs, and likes sex, then why not use herbs that might increase her drive? For some women that might be an option, but part of the problem here is she has expressed her thought that he is a pervert for even asking, and doesn't seem open to much conversation on the subject. That is a bigger problem than just the lack of sex. She is refusing to discuss an issue that is quite important to him, and is actually labeling him as a pervert for having desires for his wife. That is not a normal response. So it sounds like part of the resentment is that she views his drive as wrong But then she also mocks his suggestion to limit this drive, which she appears to think is wrong.

As to mutual agreement, you should never have sex outside of consent.

On the other hand, you can sometimes work up to desire. There have been times when my wife wanted to have sex but I did not really feel like it. However, I agreed since she was interested and before long my mind came around to enjoying it as well.

It was still my consent to do so, and I did so to try to help meet her need, rather than just reject her. Now there are also, rarely, times when I simply declined. Both are valid options, but it can in fact be loving to try when you are not initially feeling like it. It is still consent and still loving. She has also at times tried to work up to it, and other times declined.

While some view this as manipulation, or force, etc. it is not from our perspective. We can voluntarily opt to try to help the other person so that it is not just the one person's drive that is the deciding factor.

To say that since her drive is less she must always be the deciding factor is missing the element of both parties trying to meet the needs of each other, which is what Paul addressed in I Corinthians. That does not mean she should consent every time he asks either. And I agree with the poster who stated that insisting on sex based on the Bible passage could hurt more than help in the relationship.

In any case, he doesn't seem to be saying she should have sex whenever he wants it. He seems to be desiring some middle ground, even if that requires a supplement on his part to try and meet the needs of both.

It is odd that she mocks him for this. I can see her declining the option thinking it is not the best solution. But to mock him shows a total lack of care for his struggle in the matter. This is not a small matter to him if he is regularly experiencing temptation, and implied he is at times possibly turning to porn (he will have to clarify if that is inaccurate). Porn could do a lot of harm to the marriage in the long run, and to his view of sex, and is, according to Christ, adultery, as he is looking at a woman to lust after her. Now none of this excuses porn usage if it is happening. It is still a choice. However, it should be a clue to her that this is a real problem for him, and he is struggling with temptation. And if her reaction to his drive is to belittle him as a pervert, and to mock him when he discusses lowering it, neither is a response that really shows she is concerned about his difficulty in the matter. I can see how that would tend to evoke resentment.

Now where we agree is that resentment is not going to help either way. And he will have to forgive and rely on Christ to overcome this and to overcome desires for porn or other improper thoughts.

However, we can still have some empathy for how this resentment might come about in a situation in which his wife, at least according to his account, is improperly calling his sexual desire perversion, and not taking seriously his struggle with it.

 

[Goatee]

We couldn't talk about it either. She was just 100% frigid which she admitted. I was never ever demanding. I never asked her for sex. 10 years of frustration, no physical contact. Nothing.

 

[tall73]

My husband and I adopted (years ago) the policy of mutual agreement across the board for all our decisions. Instead of coercing and convincing the other--IOW manipulating each other---our decisions are based on BOTH of us being on board (and that includes sex). I never want him to do *anything* begrudgingly.....but especially not sex (which is supposed to be an expression of mutual love....not guilt....not coercion....not merely compliance).

No....I don't believe she's thinking only of her self if she's not interested (she's just being true to her own desires).

It sounds to me that she's just sincere with her expression. I'd be willing to say that if she were merely complying a lot of the time you'd be complaining about her lack of "enthusiasm" (because I've read many posts like that over the years).

I am not sure how that plays out with various issues. If a husband didn't want to actually sit and talk with his wife more than once every two weeks, would we really think that is OK because he is being true to his desires? Or would we tell him that he might want to try to sit and talk more even if he doesn't feel like it, and the intimacy built might make it more enjoyable over time? We might also point out that his wife would like to talk to him more often than once every two weeks.

 

[tall73]

We couldn't talk about it either. She was just 100% frigid which she admitted. I was never ever demanding. I never asked her for sex. 10 years of frustration, no physical contact. Nothing.

That certainly would be a tough situation. It sounds like in your case there were some different dynamics. In Jeff's case she seems to enjoy it at times, but not that frequently.

In some cases women never enjoy it, whether it be from beliefs about sex, biological problems, difficulty from prior abuse, etc.

Here that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Goatee]

I agree. Thing is, the lady I had an affair with was 100% totally different to my wife! She 100% loved sex.

When one has had no relations with your wife for so many years and you then sin and realise what you have been missing, it can be very very difficult to get off that sinful road.

My advice to the OP is try really hard to get this sorted NOW. Don't let it fester like it did for me and then lead to betrayal.

 

[tall73]

I agree. Thing is, the lady I had an affair with was 100% totally different to my wife! She 100% loved sex.

When one has had no relations with your wife for so many years and you then sin and realise what you have been missing, it can be very very difficult to get off that sinful road.

My advice to the OP is try really hard to get this sorted NOW. Don't let it fester like it did for me and then lead to betrayal.

Well certainly it is true most women would not be like your wife, in the sense of not wanting sex at all. Most women enjoy sex, whether having more or less frequent desire than their spouse.

And I can certainly see how such an experience would make trying to stay off that road difficult now. On the other hand keep in mind that affairs involve infatuation, fascination with the forbidden, etc. While this undoubtedly can be enticing, remember that it leads to death, and is a contrast to the more lasting bond and love that should exist within marriage, and marital sex. It is unfortunate that you did not have what you would have expected in a marriage as far as a legitimate avenue for your sexual urges within a loving relationship.

Your advice is good, though it has been costly to you personally. Keep in mind Psalm 51 as you continue to rely on the Lord:

Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.

Your example is providing a testimony of the cost of sin and yet can also be an example of teaching transgressors, and turning sinners back to God.

 

[Endeavourer]

I agree. Thing is, the lady I had an affair with was 100% totally different to my wife! She 100% loved sex.

When one has had no relations with your wife for so many years and you then sin and realise what you have been missing, it can be very very difficult to get off that sinful road.

My advice to the OP is try really hard to get this sorted NOW. Don't let it fester like it did for me and then lead to betrayal.

Of course she 100% loved sex! An affair is a fantasy where the two people involved are addicted to each other and simply playing house without the realities of life intruding.

Marry her, and welcome yourself to hell on earth. "Affairages" are notoriously horrible and unsurvivable.

 

[OK Jeff]

He did not say he wanted to reject her. His only solution he can think of is to diminish his drive so that he doesn't want it as often as he does now, with the hope that their drives might even out.

On the other hand, if she sells herbs, and likes sex, then why not use herbs that might increase her drive? For some women that might be an option, but part of the problem here is she has expressed her thought that he is a pervert for even asking, and doesn't seem open to much conversation on the subject. That is a bigger problem than just the lack of sex. She is refusing to discuss an issue that is quite important to him, and is actually labeling him as a pervert for having desires for his wife. That is not a normal response. So it sounds like part of the resentment is that she views his drive as wrong But then she also mocks his suggestion to limit this drive, which she appears to think is wrong.

As to mutual agreement, you should never have sex outside of consent.

On the other hand, you can sometimes work up to desire. There have been times when my wife wanted to have sex but I did not really feel like it. However, I agreed since she was interested and before long my mind came around to enjoying it as well.

It was still my consent to do so, and I did so to try to help meet her need, rather than just reject her. Now there are also, rarely, times when I simply declined. Both are valid options, but it can in fact be loving to try when you are not initially feeling like it. It is still consent and still loving. She has also at times tried to work up to it, and other times declined.

While some view this as manipulation, or force, etc. it is not from our perspective. We can voluntarily opt to try to help the other person so that it is not just the one person's drive that is the deciding factor.

To say that since her drive is less she must always be the deciding factor is missing the element of both parties trying to meet the needs of each other, which is what Paul addressed in I Corinthians. That does not mean she should consent every time he asks either. And I agree with the poster who stated that insisting on sex based on the Bible passage could hurt more than help in the relationship.

In any case, he doesn't seem to be saying she should have sex whenever he wants it. He seems to be desiring some middle ground, even if that requires a supplement on his part to try and meet the needs of both.

It is odd that she mocks him for this. I can see her declining the option thinking it is not the best solution. But to mock him shows a total lack of care for his struggle in the matter. This is not a small matter to him if he is regularly experiencing temptation, and implied he is at times possibly turning to porn (he will have to clarify if that is inaccurate). Porn could do a lot of harm to the marriage in the long run, and to his view of sex, and is, according to Christ, adultery, as he is looking at a woman to lust after her. Now none of this excuses porn usage if it is happening. It is still a choice. However, it should be a clue to her that this is a real problem for him, and he is struggling with temptation. And if her reaction to his drive is to belittle him as a pervert, and to mock him when he discusses lowering it, neither is a response that really shows she is concerned about his difficulty in the matter. I can see how that would tend to evoke resentment.

Now where we agree is that resentment is not going to help either way. And he will have to forgive and rely on Christ to overcome this and to overcome desires for porn or other improper thoughts.

However, we can still have some empathy for how this resentment might come about in a situation in which his wife, at least according to his account, is improperly calling his sexual desire perversion, and not taking seriously his struggle with it.

You are the first one who seems to get everything I've said. You are spot on with every word. Thank you.

 

[Endeavourer]

Jeff, I was thinking about your situation last night and realized the following:

Most married and busy women have a very low drive for sexual release compared to men. Their drive is more to connect hearts than to experience release. Possibly the majority of married, busy women would actually "need" sex about once every two months.

The realities of life are more compelling than most women's sex drives. What persuades women to desire sex more often is an affectionate warm up and a romantic pursuit by their husband.

As you are not initiating anything and any initiation is left up to her, with your 2x per month frequency, it is quite likely that three out of four times she initiates, she is initiating because she loves you and knows you would like it, but not for her own needs.

I'm quite certain the average marriage would have sex FAR less often than you are having it if the husband refused to ever initiate to the point of even being passive aggressive as you were the time she whispered a hint to your ear and you left it all up to her, going to bed to just wait expectantly for her to come too. Honestly, what were you thinking?!!

It is quite likely that your bitter thoughts about rejection do not actually reflect the reality of how she feels about you, so your thoughts are spiraling in that regard where she had no desire to express to you what you have assumed based on her lack of interest on a particular occasion.

 

[OK Jeff]

Jeff, I was thinking about your situation last night and realized the following:

Most married and busy women have a very low drive for sexual release compared to men. Their drive is more to connect hearts than to experience release. Possibly the majority of married, busy women would actually "need" sex about once every two months.

The realities of life are more compelling than most women's sex drives. What persuades women to desire sex more often is an affectionate warm up and a romantic pursuit by their husband.

As you are not initiating anything and any initiation is left up to her, with your 2x per month frequency, it is quite likely that three out of four times she initiates, she is initiating because she loves you and knows you would like it, but not for her own needs.

I'm quite certain the average marriage would have sex FAR less often than you are having it if the husband refused to ever initiate to the point of even being passive aggressive as you were the time she whispered a hint to your ear and you left it all up to her, going to bed to just wait expectantly for her to come too. Honestly, what were you thinking?!!

It is quite likely that your bitter thoughts about rejection do not actually reflect the reality of how she feels about you, so your thoughts are spiraling in that regard where she had no desire to express to you what you have assumed based on her lack of interest on a particular occasion.

Valid point, all of it.
I began the absolute refusal some years back as a defense to the constant rejection. But I was a different man then. For one, I had no idea what intimacy was/is. Sex was only about the release. Perhaps I should indeed let go of the old resentments and try again with The Lord involved.