More Red Meat - Transgender Individuals Can't Enter Military Service

[Subduction Zone]

Well the transgender folks who are enlisted have been mentally stable enough to do the job well. Have you ever been a Navy SEAL? We know that Trump, of course, wasn't one, on account of how he dodged the draft with flimsy excuses. Kristin Beck, who is transgendered, enlisted on her own free will & was one. She was awarded a Purple Heart & a Bronze Star.

Obviously, this general, a fellow who has actual experience with this, sees things differently than you.
Defiant Coast Guard four-star vows to keep transgender service members

Trump has "softened" his position a bit. Current transgender people will not be kicked out of the military, but he does want to ban new ones:

Trump's ban on transgender troops is now official policy

I guess now that 'Merica is safe from a transgender army we can all sleep soundly.

 

[Go Braves]

Trump has "softened" his position a bit. Current transgender people will not be kicked out of the military, but he does want to ban new ones:

Trump's ban on transgender troops is now official policy

I guess now that 'Merica is safe from a transgender army we can all sleep soundly.

I know, thanks for the link though. James Mattis is to credit for that. Trump didn't 'soften' it out of having any kind of enlightenment or desire to be fair & reasonable. The damage of Trump's disgusting Tweets is already done. He already took a crap upon transgender folks who've served us in the military, never mind that his fat butt never got up to serve a day in it.

 

[lasthero]

Trump has "softened" his position a bit. Current transgender people will not be kicked out of the military, but he does want to ban new ones:

Trump's ban on transgender troops is now official policy

I guess now that 'Merica is safe from a transgender army we can all sleep soundly.

This is what I don't get.

If the transgender currently serving are okay, what's the problem with accepting more?

 

[Uncle Siggy]

It's not about compassion, but service.

It's actually about discipline...

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

No, it's the entire point. This person was able to serve the United States in an extremely demanding, extremely important role.

...as a man.

This is what I don't get.

If the transgender currently serving are okay, what's the problem with accepting more?

Sometimes conditions that are a bar to enlistment are acquired during service, and there are procedures to deal with that.

For example, people who are HIV+ are not permitted to enlist, and there are mandatory HIV tests at MEPS prior to enlistment. Yet, there are HIV+ people serving in the Armed Forces, because sometimes personnel contract HIV after enlistment. HIV+ troops are not deployed to combat zones and are barred from re-enlisting, but they are allowed to serve the remainder of their contracts. We may be looking at a similar policy here.

 

[lasthero]

For example, people who are HIV+ are not permitted to enlist, and there are mandatory HIV tests at MEPS prior to enlistment. Yet, there are HIV+ people serving in the Armed Forces, because sometimes personnel contract HIV after enlistment. HIV+ troops are not deployed to combat zones and are barred from re-enlisting, but they are allowed to serve the remainder of their contracts. We may be looking at a similar policy here.

There's no reason to think that. By all indications I've seen, the transgender individuals already inside will be allowed to stay.

Not to mention, this isn't even remotely analogous. They were transgender when they enlisted, they'll be transgender when they leave. Not to mention, everyone I've read who's talked about serving with transgender recruits has given them nothing but praise. No complaints. No indication that they've been a problem. Nothing. By all accounts, they're capable soldiers.

So, please, explain to me how kicking out over a 1,000 capable soldiers and not letting others in makes our army stronger? And why, if we're keeping the transgenders that are already in - and I've seen no evidence to suggest that's not the case - we can't bring more in?

 

[lasthero]

For example, people who are HIV+ are not permitted to enlist, and there are mandatory HIV tests at MEPS prior to enlistment. Yet, there are HIV+ people serving in the Armed Forces, because sometimes personnel contract HIV after enlistment. HIV+ troops are not deployed to combat zones and are barred from re-enlisting, but they are allowed to serve the remainder of their contracts. We may be looking at a similar policy here.

There's no reason to think that. By all indications I've seen, the transgender individuals already inside will be allowed to stay.

Not to mention, this isn't even remotely analogous. They were transgender when they enlisted, they'll be transgender when they leave. Not to mention, everyone I've read who's talked about serving with transgender recruits has given them nothing but praise. No complaints. No indication that they've been a problem. Nothing. By all accounts, they're capable soldiers.

So, please, explain to me how kicking out over a 1,000 capable soldiers and not letting others in makes our army stronger? And why, if we're keeping the transgenders that are already in - and I've seen no evidence to suggest that's not the case - we can't bring more in?

 

[Allandavid]

Here is the problem.


Gender comprises a lifestyle.

No it doesn't. It comprises an identity...

If you hadn’t noticed already, it’s a big deal. Remember that defensive saying, “it’s my lifestyle choice”? This was a popular saying that members of LGBT would reference when the subject of their proclivities came up because they felt a need to defend the workings of their entire life

Transitioning into a member of the opposite sex will radically alter an entire lifestyle. There is no question. There exist proven trends in longitudinal analyses of sex-transitioning patients that mental health deterioration including self-harm and suicide is positively correlated with these cases, including a whole battery of mental health issues fixated around LGBT. To ignore these facts is to ignore hard psychiatric data.

This issue should not be dismissed as though the discussion pertained to that of a minor ancillary characteristic like a personality quark when undergoing the process will, inevitably, displace the foundations of an applicant’s psychological makeup at the very least.

And the rest is therefore irrelevant...

 

[Allandavid]

Not entirely. If they've bucked normative tradition to the point where they pay thousands for surgery to radically alter their lifestyle, why would they suddenly feel so susceptible to bullying comments (likely a random from the internet) to the point where they would betray their lifelong intentions of transitioning and off themselves? Doesn't make sense.


It's more like the imbalances and stresses of forcing themselves to undergo hormonal therapy screws up the individuals natural production of NTs (ie. the production their bodies would naturally produce without interference of elective use of drugs) and this creates mental problems.

How strange then that the majority of transgender people report a much improved mental state after undergoing surgery to align their bodies with their gender...

 

[Go Braves]

...as a man.

Exactly. Now, from what I understand about transgender folks, a lot of them don't "come out" much less start any kind of transitioning until their 20s, 30s, some older than that. They don't just become transgender overnight. Kristin Beck was transgender back when serving, getting the Bronze Star & Purple Heart. I think that's the case with a lot of those in active duty or vets, folks who were deemed fit to enlist, got trained, got deployed, did their jobs. It's why this ban is illogical. Plenty who are focused on the job at hand only care if the person alongside them is trained & doing the job right, and they don't go nosing around in the person's britches or personal life.

 

[KCfromNC]

Gender comprises a lifestyle.

So does religion, but we don't use that as an excuse to fire Christians from their jobs.

There exist proven trends in longitudinal analyses of sex-transitioning patients that mental health deterioration including self-harm and suicide is positively correlated with these cases, including a whole battery of mental health issues fixated around LGBT.

If it is actually based on transitioning, why are you trying to lump in LGB with T? Something's not adding up here.

 

[KCfromNC]

How strange then that the majority of transgender people report a much improved mental state after undergoing surgery to align their bodies with their gender...

I don't know, man. Someone on the internet said they wouldn't. I'm not sure who I'm supposed to believe.

 

[Go Braves]

It's actually about discipline...

Most folks realize that service in the military entails discipline.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

There's no reason to think that. By all indications I've seen, the transgender individuals already inside will be allowed to stay.

Generally, what prevents you from enlisting prevents you from reenlisting. The question is whether Mattis will get the discharge papers sooner than that.

Not to mention, this isn't even remotely analogous. They were transgender when they enlisted,

Not according to their MEPS screening...

So, please, explain to me how kicking out over a 1,000 capable soldiers and not letting others in makes our army stronger? And why, if we're keeping the transgenders that are already in - and I've seen no evidence to suggest that's not the case - we can't bring more in?

Asked and answered.

Kristin Beck was transgender back when serving, getting the Bronze Star & Purple Heart.

No records to show that. Granted, what he may have confided to a shrink or chaplain is privileged, but nothing in publicly available records.

 

[High Fidelity]

Generally, what prevents you from enlisting prevents you from reenlisting. The question is whether Mattis will get the discharge papers sooner than that.



Not according to their MEPS screening...



Asked and answered.



No records to show that. Granted, what he may have confided to a shrink or chaplain is privileged, but nothing in publicly available records.

Don't forget to stay hydrated.

Moving the goal posts this frequently must be tiring work.

 

[variant]

My argument as it stands does support the blanket ban though. I just had to clarify that, nowhere in this thread have I argued that every single trans person has mental illness and is incapable of carrying out a role within the military.

Then your argument isn't relevant. The President of the United States has banned all transgender enlistment, and there is no reason for him to have done so apart from political appeals to bigotry.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

The next step is they need to remove the law making homosexual marriage legal

Or maybe Christians can mind their own busines and leave the LGBT alone.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Maybe Trump should stop all sinners from going into the military. Like people that had divorces. People that had children before getting married. All single women. That doesn't have their hymen intact. And make single men and women take a lie detector test. On regarding if they are virgins. If not throw them out. And only put non sinners in the military.

 

[Maren]

What I want to know, how are the going to ban transgenders from the military? Is there some kind of test they can perform? Are they going to just ask people if they are transgendered? And, if they say they aren't (assuming they are asked) and then suddenly "discover" the are after they've served a couple of years, what is going to happen?

I just can't see where this policy is going to make any kind of difference, at all, other than "demonizing" transgendered individuals.

 

[Go Braves]

No records to show that. Granted, what he may have confided to a shrink or chaplain is privileged, but nothing in publicly available records.

She's put it on the public record.