More Red Meat - Transgender Individuals Can't Enter Military Service

[Nithavela]

That's what makes America great.

People serving in the military of other countries?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I really don't understand the problem. Women can join the military as well as men can so I don't see where the problem comes in of allowing a woman who used to be a man or vice-versa.

 

[Hank77]

Well I mean... the way society is these days, if Trump did not make this decree you'd have hordes of LGBTQ members signing up for the single reason of getting a free sex change.

Call me old fashioned, but it's not the business of the US military to accommodate sex changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what benefit does such a thing yield to defense of the nation?

I agree, but they could just make a rule that the military will not pay for those medical expenses and will not allow any of those surgeries to take place during the time they are serving.

 

[variant]

This quip is false equivalence.

The concern is over placing unstable individuals into positions that range from pedestrian to excruciatingly stressful. I think we can all agree that any functioning military operates on the creed of minimizing risk in every conceivable form it presents itself. Greater stability translates into lower risk.

I think i'll leave the judgement of peoples "mental stability" to the professionals rather than making a broad home baked judgement on entire groups of people like you are doing.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The next step is they need to remove the law making homosexual marriage legal

Best bet there is by state.

 

[Belk]

Best bet there is by state.

No, at this point you would require a constitutional amendment.

 

[friend of]

I think i'll leave the judgement of peoples

This discussion concerns a bit more than "judging" people and "hurting their feelings"

I agree, but they could just make a rule that the military will not pay for those medical expenses and will not allow any of those surgeries to take place during the time they are serving

This can certainly be seen as a common sense compromise to the issue of trans people serving. The problem is that those in favor want what they want and anything less is labelled mean-spirited.

 

[mark46]

1) Should women capable of becoming pregnant be excluded? Of course not, but the cost to the military is much higher.

2) Should people who have already had the surgery be excluded? The medical issue goes away.

3) if Obama had the right to change the policy, Trump also has the right. However, this has nothing to do with transgender individuals. It has everything to do with repealing one of Obama's orders. Mr. Birther has an obsession with all of the policies of Obama.

 

[mark46]

The military isn't about compassion. If you can't deploy, you can't serve.

I agree.

So?

Why should the president decide who he thinks should deploy? The same statement was made about blacks and homosexuals.

Let the military decide. Or, don't you trust our military?

 

[mark46]

This discussion concerns a bit more than "judging" people and "hurting their feelings"



This can certainly be seen as a common sense compromise to the issue of trans people serving. The problem is that those in favor want what they want and anything less is labelled mean-spirited.

I note that the military was already in the middle of studying this issue when Trump had his tweet storm. The open question is whether he will listen to the military when they officially give the results of their study, now delayed 6 months.

Perhaps the military will choose to take no action against those in the military (other than denying to pay for surgery) until the study is complete.

 

[Nithavela]

I agree.

So?

Why should the president decide who he thinks should deploy? The same statement was made about blacks and homosexuals.

Let the military decide. Or, don't you trust our military?

Many americans trust the military so much that they stockpile weapons for the day the military will come for them.

 

[Hank77]

This can certainly be seen as a common sense compromise to the issue of trans people serving. The problem is that those in favor want what they want and anything less is labelled mean-spirited.

True. But the other side is the same way, they don't want to compromise either. They just don't want them to be able to serve.

 

[variant]

This discussion concerns a bit more than "judging" people and "hurting their feelings"

All discussions of peoples fitness for military service are discussions about judgement. No one mentioned hurting anyone's feelings.

You're just some person on the internet, and yet you feel qualified to sit in judgement over an entire group of people's fitness without ever even meeting any of them.

I'm also pretty sure that guerrilla combat isn't the only job in the military.

What exactly is your expertise again? I didn't catch it?

 

[mark46]

Many americans trust the military so much that they stockpile weapons for the day the military will come for them.

Yes, that's true. and these militia folks are some of the New Republican Party. The open question is whether the congressional Republicans and their supporters can win back the soul of the party, or whether they will need to run under a 3rd party in 2020 (perhaps the Reform Party or their own), with the idea of winning in 2024 or 2028.

It is possible that the Republican Party has fundamentally changed in this last year. It is also possible that Republicans will continue to back their own issues, and ignore Trump, other than to make clear statements of outrage when necessary. After all, Republicans want tax reform even more than Trump. In any case, they will focus on the budget (CR) and the debt ceiling.

Obamacare premiums are up to Trump. He can continue to make this threats not to pay insurance companies, or not. He can continue to choose not to obey the law with regard to collecting penalties. There is lots Trump can continue to do with regards to healthcare. Meanwhile, every county has a provider for 2018. It isn't clear that this would be hugely different under Democrats, who want a public guarantee of a default provider. It seems that governors like Kasich have done the legwork, and worked with insurance companies.

 

[Hank77]

1) Should women capable of becoming pregnant be excluded? Of course not, but the cost to the military is much higher.

If a woman is pregnant before her entry into the military, her entry is delayed. If she gets pregnant while in the military then her condition becomes one of necessary medical care. You aren't going to have women joining the military in order to get free medical care for pregnancies. They can get the same care covered by ins. outside the military.

2) Should people who have already had the surgery be excluded? The medical issue goes away.

I don't think so.

 

[mark46]

By the way, a transgender individual who is has not had surgery (and might be struggling with such a decision) may or may not be considered psychologically fit to enter the military.

This seems true, even under current rules.

 

[variant]

By the way, a transgender individual who is has not had surgery (and might be struggling with such a decision) may or may not be considered psychologically fit to enter the military.

This seems true, even under current rules.

Why make it a blanket decision by the president then instead of the people in the military who judge psychological fitness?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

It is amazing how quickly we go from revering our soldiers to denigrating them when they are different then we would wish them.

Soldiers are individuals, and way warrant reverence or denigration on a case by case basis. Who reveres the inmates in Ft. Leavenworth?

Are you a mental health professional? If not what are your qualifications for labeling transgender individuals as unstable?

I don't need to be a mental health professional to understand that a man who thinks he's a woman is not right in the head. The only qualifications I need are common sense.

 

[Audacious]

I don't need to be a mental health professional to understand that a man who thinks he's a woman is not right in the head. The only qualifications I need are common sense.

Common sense is actually a lack of qualification in many cases, as a lot of things in life are counter intuitive and thus go against it. Especially once you get into highly technical areas, such as psychiatric medicine and neuro- and clinical psychology.

 

[variant]

I don't need to be a mental health professional to understand that a man who thinks he's a woman is not right in the head. The only qualifications I need are common sense.

Ah so you've merely decided off hand that you don't need qualifications to judge mental stability with regards to fitness to serve in the military.

So why should anyone care what you think?