My theory on creation.

PsychoSarah

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The lack of clarification is the essence of misunderstanding. You have a responsibility. My conscience is clear, I've defined my terms.
-_- you don't get to use incorrect definitions just because you make it clear how you are using a term. You can say 2+2 = 34 all you want, but you'll remain incorrect.



There is not one but two definitions here, being equivocated. Evolution as a phenomenon in nature and a philosophy of history.
None of evolution's definitions have anything to do with philosophy. Scientific theories don't have philosophies, and even if you are talking about how philosophy changes over time, evolution is just stating that it is changing, not whether or not it should or even how it will change in that usage.


Your definition(s) please.

evolution is the change in genetic composition of a population over successive generations, which may be caused by natural selection, inbreeding, hybridization, and mutation

There's only one other valid use of evolution, which is as a generic term for "change/development over time".

Using this word any other way is using it to mean something it doesn't.




Thanks for admitting the obvious.
So sayeth the man that wants me to clarify which definition of evolution I am using every time I use the word, even though context clues can make it obvious.



My experience, no you won't.
Here it is again: evolution is the change in genetic composition of a population over successive generations, which may be caused by natural selection, inbreeding, hybridization, and mutation.

Salty that I don't always respond to you like I say I will? I am a college student, so I am not on every day. Sometimes I lose track of conversations during my absences. Other times, mod clean ups and thread closures prevent me from responding. If I haven't addressed something you really want me to, you can always link me to it, and I'll do my best.
 
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Root of Jesse

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In the Ancient Egyptian religion and modern North Korea, to name two.
If you want to talk about emperors and dictators claiming themselves God, it's not the same as an apparent nobody claiming it, and having it prophesied throughout his religious texts.
 
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PsychoSarah

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If you want to talk about emperors and dictators claiming themselves God, it's not the same as an apparent nobody claiming it, and having it prophesied throughout his religious texts.
I know, when nobody's do it, they are usually institutionalized or ignored... which actually happened with Christianity for quite some time. However, there have been a number of small cults that worship specific individuals and people claiming to be gods. There's also at least one denomination of Buddhism that worships Buddha as a god, though I don't think the man himself ever claimed to be such.

Furthermore, the only "prophecy" I've heard associated with Jesus in the Old Testament clearly isn't referring to him at all, since in context, it names Israel, the nation, as the subject of the prophecy. Furthermore, any specific details, such as how much money Judas was given to betray Jesus, could have easily been edited to fit any preceding prophecy better, and no one would be the wiser. Seriously, who would have even counted the coins and passed that down reliably for decades until it was written down?
 
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Root of Jesse

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I know, when nobody's do it, they are usually institutionalized or ignored... which actually happened with Christianity for quite some time. However, there have been a number of small cults that worship specific individuals and people claiming to be gods. There's also at least one denomination of Buddhism that worships Buddha as a god, though I don't think the man himself ever claimed to be such.
You're right, Christianity was ignored until it got too big to ignore. And again, you're right that Buddha never claimed to be God.
Furthermore, the only "prophecy" I've heard associated with Jesus in the Old Testament clearly isn't referring to him at all, since in context, it names Israel, the nation, as the subject of the prophecy. Furthermore, any specific details, such as how much money Judas was given to betray Jesus, could have easily been edited to fit any preceding prophecy better, and no one would be the wiser. Seriously, who would have even counted the coins and passed that down reliably for decades until it was written down?
The problem with this theory is that there is enough negative in the NT about the dolts who were the apostles-their desire to be treated as royalty, their doubt, their lack of faith, their foibles, that the entire thing rings true. The only reason 30 pieces of silver was even mentioned in the gospel is because of the prophecy. Sure, it 'could have' been changed. What about the prophecy "A virgin shall bear a son..." That doesn't mention Israel as the subject.
 
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HitchSlap

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Creation, there is the BB theory which seems to be the one most Genesis deniers believe in and some others with a little different twist. I happen to be one that believes God said what He meant and He meant what he said so I have a theory about the NEC vs OEC.

In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

In what would become to be known as day one, He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to temporarily set up day and night until earth and the sun were created.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

On the third day, the waters below the firmament were gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The earth then brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

It was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time.


There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.

The time dimension was not created until the universe was placed into position. Scripture informs that God stretches the heavens, just like science came to believe thousands of years later.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.
Reality cares not, what you choose to believe.
 
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tevans9129

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Reality cares not, what you choose to believe.

Exactly, in the beginning, there was nothing and then nothing exploded and over billllllions and billllions of years, nothing created the universe. Now that, is reality...at least for some folks.
 
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lesliedellow

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Exactly, in the beginning, there was nothing and then nothing exploded and over billllllions and billllions of years, nothing created the universe. Now that, is reality...at least for some folks.

I don't understand it, therefore it can't be true.

Well, since you have all understanding, and perfect knowledge of all things, perhaps you would like to expound upon the paradox of God being both transcendent and omnipresent. And, while you are at it, maybe you could give us a run down on the doctrine of the Trinity, without falling into one of the many heresies which surround it.
 
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bhsmte

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Exactly, in the beginning, there was nothing and then nothing exploded and over billllllions and billllions of years, nothing created the universe. Now that, is reality...at least for some folks.
Define what nothing is please. Next, please demonstrate that this nothing has ever existed.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Creation, there is the BB theory which seems to be the one most Genesis deniers believe in and some others with a little different twist. I happen to be one that believes God said what He meant and He meant what he said so I have a theory about the NEC vs OEC.

Actually, to be precise, BB is not a theory of origins. It's rather a theory of development of the universe.

In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

In what would become to be known as day one, He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to temporarily set up day and night until earth and the sun were created.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

On the third day, the waters below the firmament were gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The earth then brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

It was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time.


There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.

The time dimension was not created until the universe was placed into position. Scripture informs that God stretches the heavens, just like science came to believe thousands of years later.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)

You're calling it a "theory", but what it really seems to be, is just you repeating your religious beliefs.

Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.

And for some reason, your particular "theory", doesn't require to have any provable explanation, using empirical evidence?

How unsurprising.
 
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AV1611VET

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Define what nothing is please.
It's a portmanteau of NO THING.
bhsmte said:
Next, please demonstrate that this nothing has ever existed.
Demonstrate nothing?

Sure:
EVOLUTION
 
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DogmaHunter

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I have a couple of questions if anyone wishes to offer a plausible answer for. Time seems to be stated in microseconds, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years and light years, therefore, if there is no sun and earth's rotation, what are those units based on?

Measurement units are deviced in some sort of agreement. They are not found under a rock.
This is why we have, for example, alternatives to the metric system.

If, there is no intelligence to measure time, how can you prove the time dimension exists?

Without intelligent beings, what would do the proving?
It's like asking "how would a plane without wings or engines fly?". Well... they wouldn't.

If, the time dimension did not exist until the sixth day, what effect would that have on setting the age of the universe?

Listen to yourself. The "sixth day". As, after days 1 through 5.

Instead of answering that self-defeating question, I'ld just ask you to at least try and use terminology that isn't self-contradicting.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Theory of evolution has no evidence , that's why it's called theory after 150 years and not law of evolution .

It's mindblowing that people with access to the internet, still dare to say such fallacious nonsense in the 21st century without blinking, while expecting to be taken seriously.
 
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DogmaHunter

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"don't know...likely had...belief...believe"

So you do have beliefs, faith...me also.

The difference being that his "beliefs" are restricted to those things that are demonstrably real, and doesn't include things he couldn't possibly know.
 
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DogmaHunter

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1) In the beginning, before the BB expanded and this applies to all questions.

2) Where did space come from?

Space is an integral part of the universe. It's called the space-time continuum for a reason. So space came into existance along with the universe.

3) Where did matter come from?

Dunno.

4) where did energy come from?

Dunno

5) When did the time dimension come into existence?

Same as with space. It's an integral part of the universe. It came into existance when the universe came into existance. At T = 0, if you wish.


So, now what?


"Natural laws simply "are", is that your idea of empirical science?

Natural laws aren't really things by themselves. Things have properties/identity. Things are what they are and not what they are not.

These properties determine how it "reacts" or "interacts".
When we describe that "how" in general/abstract terms, we call it a "law".

Take the "law of gravity". Gravity isn't a thing by itself, which exists by itself.
No. Instead, gravity manifests through mass.

So, when someone challenges my Biblical beliefs I can simply say they "are" and that satisfies a question, really?

No. Your religious beliefs are rather arbitrary. Laws are not. Laws are description of behaviour of very real, observable things.
 
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DogmaHunter

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What part of "in the beginning, before the BB" do you not understand?

The problem with that phrasing, is similar to "what is north of the north pole?"
 
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