What is the 2nd Death? (Annihilationsim vs. Eternal Torment)

[Der Alte]

Eight verses from the NT which conclusively show that "aion" definitely means "eternity" and "aionios" definitely means "eternal."

[1] 1 Timothy 1:17
(17) Now unto the King eternal, (1) immortal,(2) invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever (1) and ever (1). Amen.
(1) αἰών/aion (2) ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos​

In this verse “aion” is in apposition, see def. below, with “immortal.” If “aion” means “age(s),” a finite period, God cannot be for “a finite period” and “immortal” at the same time. God is “eternal” and “immortal” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[2] Romans 2:7
(7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,(2) eternal (1) life:​

“Aion” is in apposition with “immortality.” If “aion” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternity” and “immortality” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[3] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal (1a) weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;(3) but the things which are not seen are eternal.(1a)
(1a) αἰώνιος/aionios (3) πρόσκαιρος/proskairos​

Here “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Aionios” cannot mean “age(s)” a finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary.” “Eternal” is.

[4] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1)For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal (1a) in the heavens.​

Here “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” An “aionios” house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” “Aionios” means “eternal.”

[5] Hebrews 7:24
(24) But this man, because he continueth ever,(1) hath an unchangeable (4) priesthood.
(4) ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos ​

Here “unchangeable” is in apposition with “aion.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Melchizadek cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[6] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,(2) by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.(1)​

Here “incorruptible” is in apposition with “aion.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only for “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[7] 1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]​

Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”

[8] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[αἰώνιος/aionios]​

Here “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “fleshly” people reap “corruption” but people in the spirit people reap life aionios i.e. not “corruption.” “Aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
.....The definition of “apposition” from a Greek grammar.

III. Nominative in Simple Apposition
The nominative case (as well as the other cases) can be an appositive to another substantive in the same case. The usage is quite common. There are four features of simple apposition to be noted (the first two are structural clues; the last two features are semantic): An appositional construction inz’olz’es (1) two adjacent substantives (2)in the same case (40) (3) which refer to the same person or thing, (4) and have the same syntactical relation to the rest of the clause.
The first substantive can belong to any category (e.g., subject, Predicate nom., etc.) and the second is merely a clarification, description, or identification of who or what is mentioned.(41) Thus, the appositive “piggy-backs” on the first nominative’s use, as it were. For this reason simple apposition is not an independent syntactical category.
The appositive functions very much like a PN in a convertible proposition that is, it refers to the same thing as the first noun.(42) The difference, however, is that a PN makes an assertion about the S (an equative verb is either stated or implied); with appositives there is assumption, not assertion (no verb is in mind). In the sentence “Paul is an apostle,” apostle is a PN; in the sentence, “Paul the apostle is in prison,” apostle is in apposition to Paul.
(40)The nom. occasionally is in apposition to an oblique case, but the semantics are the same. See discussion below.
(41) An appositive, strictly speaking, is substantival, not adjectival. Thus, adjectives or Participles in second attributive position are not generally appositives, but usually hate an adjectival force.
(42) The significance of this will be seen in our discussion of the gen. case, for the gen can also involve a syntactical category, vi.t., the gen of apposition. The semantics involved in such a category are quite different from those involved in simple apposition.
With proper names typically the first noun is anarthrous and the appositional noun is articular.
Matt 3:1 παραγινεται ιωαννης ο βαπτιστης κηρυσσων
John the Baptist came Preaching
Mark 15:4 0 εν αις ην και μαρια η μαγδαληνη
among them also were Mary the Magdalene...
Luke 1:24 συνελαβεν ελισαβετ η γυνη αυτου
Elizabeth his wife conceived
Rev 1:5 ο μαρτυς ο πιστος ο πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων
the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, Grand Rapids MI, 1996, Daniel Wallace, pp.48-49
• A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament 2 Co 4:17
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
Literally, “the for the moment (old adverb parautika, here only in N.T.) lightness (old word, in N.T. only here and Mat_11:30).”
More and more exceedingly (kath' huperbolēn eis huperbolēn). Like piling Pelion on Ossa, “according to excess unto excess.” See note on 1Co_12:31.
Eternal weight of glory (aiōnion baros doxēs). Careful balancing of words in contrast (affliction vs. glory, lightness vs. weight, for the moment vs. eternal).
• Vincent Word Studies
A far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (καθ' ὑπερεβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης)
Rev., more and more exceedingly an eternal weight, etc. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Lit., exceedingly unto excess. The use of such cumulative expressions is common with Paul. See, for example, Phi_1:23, lit., much more better; Rom_8:37, abundantly the conquerors; Eph_3:20, exceeding abundantly, etc. Note how the words are offset: for a moment, eternal; light, weight; affliction, glory.​

 

[Der Alte]

Seventeen quotes from the Early Church Fathers which define "aion" and "aionios." These show conclusively that "aion" means "eternity" and "aionios" means "eternal.

[1]Ignatius [A.D. 30-107.] The Epistle to the Romans. Chap III
Nothing visible is eternal.16 “For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.”[2 Cor 54:17-18, 5:1] For our God, Jesus Christ, Bow that He is with18 the Father, is all the more revealed [in His glory]. Christianity is not a thing21 of silence only, but also of [manifest] greatness.
[2]Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology
Chap XIII
For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.
[3]Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202.] Against Heresies. Book I.
Chap X
3. the operation and dispensation of God connected with human salvation; and show that God manifested longsuffering in regard to the apostasy of the angels who transgressed, as also with respect to the disobedience of men; and set forth why it is that one and the same God has made some things temporal and some eternal, some heavenly and others earthly; and understand for what reason God, though invisible, manifested Himself to the prophets...
[4]Athenagoras [a.d. 177.] A Plea for the Christians.
Chap XIX
For, a thing is either uncreated and eternal, or created and perishable.
[5]Clement of Alexandria [a.d. 153-193-217.] The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book I. Chap. VII
Now the law is ancient grace given through Moses by the Word. Wherefore also the Scripture says, “The law was given through Moses,” (Joh_1:17) not by Moses, but by the Word, and through Moses His servant. Wherefore it was only temporary; but eternal grace and truth were by Jesus Christ.
[6] Tertullian [a.d. 145-220] A Treatise on the Soul. Chap XXIV
For that which is eternal, on the ground of its being unborn, since it admits neither of beginning nor end of time, is subject to no temporal criterion.
[7]Tertullian The Five Books Against Marcion. Book V. Chap XI
Then how is it, that in the words which follow he exhorts us not to the things which are seen and are temporal, but to those which are not seen and are eternal (2Co_4:16-18) - in other words, not to the present, but to the future?
[8]Origen [a.d. 145-220] De Principiis. Book I. Chap. II. -
11. To what we then said we shall add only the following remark. That is properly termed everlasting or eternal which neither had a beginning of existence, nor can ever cease to be what it is.
[9]Origen De Principiis. Book II. Chap. III.
6. We must see, moreover, lest perhaps it is with reference to this that the apostle says, “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are unseen are eternal. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” (2 Corinthians 4:17-18,5:1)
[10]Hippolytus [A.D. 170-236] The Refutation of All Heresies. Book I. Chap XIX
Acknowledging the Deity to be eternal and incorruptible, he says that God has providential care for nothing, and that there is no such thing at all as providence or fate, but that all things arc made by chance.
[11]Cyprian. [A.D. 200-258.]Treatise IV
22.After the supply of food, pardon of sin is also asked for, that he who is fed by God may live in God, and that not only the present and temporal life may be provided for, but the eternal also, to which we may come if our sins are forgiven; and these the Lord calls debts, as He says in His Gospel, “I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me.” (Mat_18:32)
[12]Novatian [A.D. 210-280.] A Treatise Concerning the Trinity Chap 2
For this reason, therefore, He [God] is always unbounded, because nothing is greater than He; always eternal, because nothing is more ancient than He. For that which is without beginning can be preceded by none, in that He has no time. He is on that account immortal, that He does not come to an end by any ending of His completeness.
[13]Cyprian [A.D. 170-236] Epistle I
14.How stable, how free from all shocks is that safeguard; how heavenly the protection in its perennial blessings, - to be loosed from the snares of this entangling world, and to be purged from earthly dregs, and fitted for the light of eternal immortality!
[14]Gregory Thaumaturgus [A.D. 205-240-265.] A Declaration of Faith
There is one Lord, Only of the Only, God of God, Image and Likeness of Deity, Efficient Word, Wisdom comprehensive of the constitution of all things, and Power formative of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, Invisible of Invisible, and Incorruptible of Incorruptible, and Immortal of Immortal and Eternal of Eternal.
[15]Methodius [A.D. 260-312.]Discourse V. Chap. V.
I am betrothed to the Word, and receive as a reward the eternal crown of immortality and riches from the Father; and I triumph in eternity, crowned with the bright and unfading flowers of wisdom.
[16]Lactantius [a.d. 260-330.] The Divine Institutes Book I
The Divine Institutes Book I Chap III
But if destruction is far removed from God, because He is incorruptible and eternal, it follows that the divine power is incapable of division.
[17]Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book V Chap XIX
For to Jews the Lord is still dead, but to Christians He is risen: to the former, by their unbelief; to the latter, by their full assurance of faith. For the hope in Him is immortal and eternal life.​

 

[Ron Gurley]

SEE ON YOUR "DEATH" TOPIC:

"DEATH: What is it? What happens after?

 

[Ron Gurley]

DefinING "DEATH!

Genesis 25:11
It came about after the death of Abraham, that God blessed his son Isaac;

the death...Hebrew 4194...maveth...dying, Death (personified), realm of the dead
SEE ALSO:
be put to death...Hebrew 4191...muwth...I.to die, kill, have one executed

Matthew 20:18
“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem;
and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes,
and they will condemn Him to death,

to death...Greek 2288...thanatos...I.the death of the body
A.that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul/body (from spirit) by which the life on earth is ended

1 Corinthians 15:55...O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

(BODILY) Death is the cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism... (which) begin to decompose shortly after death.
DEATH (theological): Many cultures and religions have the idea of an afterlife,
and also hold the idea of reward ...or... judgement and punishment for past sin(s).

SEE: Death - Wikipedia

The example of Jesus: TRUE MAN...TRUE DEITY: A unique DUAL NATURE

Luke 23:46
And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said,
“Father, into Your hands I commit My SPIRIT.”
Having said this, He breathed His last. (BODY/SOUL combo bled to death.)

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH...
5B...For man goes to his ETERNAL HOME while mourners go about in the street.
7 then the DUST (Body/Soul) will return to the earth as it was, (Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (Genesis 1:26)
8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”

 

[Der Alte]

Previous post never addressed, reposted.

Eight verses from the NT which conclusively show that "aion" definitely means "eternity" and "aionios" definitely means "eternal."

[1] 1 Timothy 1:17
(17) Now unto the King eternal, (1) immortal,(2) invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever (1) and ever (1). Amen.
(1) αἰών/aion (2) ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos​

In this verse “aion” is in apposition, see def. below, with “immortal.” If “aion” means “age(s),” a finite period, God cannot be for “a finite period” and “immortal” at the same time. God is “eternal” and “immortal” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[2] Romans 2:7
(7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,(2) eternal (1) life:​

“Aion” is in apposition with “immortality.” If “aion” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternity” and “immortality” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[3] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal (1a) weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;(3) but the things which are not seen are eternal.(1a)
(1a) αἰώνιος/aionios (3) πρόσκαιρος/proskairos​

Here “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Aionios” cannot mean “age(s)” a finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary.” “Eternal” is.

[4] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1)For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal (1a) in the heavens.​

Here “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” An “aionios” house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” “Aionios” means “eternal.”

[5] Hebrews 7:24
(24) But this man, because he continueth ever,(1) hath an unchangeable (4) priesthood.
(4) ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos ​

Here “unchangeable” is in apposition with “aion.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Melchizadek cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[6] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,(2) by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.(1)​

Here “incorruptible” is in apposition with “aion.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only for “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[7] 1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]​

Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”

[8] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[αἰώνιος/aionios]​

Here “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “fleshly” people reap “corruption” but people in the spirit people reap life aionios i.e. not “corruption.” “Aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
.....The definition of “apposition” from a Greek grammar.

III. Nominative in Simple Apposition
The nominative case (as well as the other cases) can be an appositive to another substantive in the same case. The usage is quite common. There are four features of simple apposition to be noted (the first two are structural clues; the last two features are semantic): An appositional construction inz’olz’es (1) two adjacent substantives (2)in the same case (40) (3) which refer to the same person or thing, (4) and have the same syntactical relation to the rest of the clause.
The first substantive can belong to any category (e.g., subject, Predicate nom., etc.) and the second is merely a clarification, description, or identification of who or what is mentioned.(41) Thus, the appositive “piggy-backs” on the first nominative’s use, as it were. For this reason simple apposition is not an independent syntactical category.
The appositive functions very much like a PN in a convertible proposition that is, it refers to the same thing as the first noun.(42) The difference, however, is that a PN makes an assertion about the S (an equative verb is either stated or implied); with appositives there is assumption, not assertion (no verb is in mind). In the sentence “Paul is an apostle,” apostle is a PN; in the sentence, “Paul the apostle is in prison,” apostle is in apposition to Paul.
(40)The nom. occasionally is in apposition to an oblique case, but the semantics are the same. See discussion below.
(41) An appositive, strictly speaking, is substantival, not adjectival. Thus, adjectives or Participles in second attributive position are not generally appositives, but usually hate an adjectival force.
(42) The significance of this will be seen in our discussion of the gen. case, for the gen can also involve a syntactical category, vi.t., the gen of apposition. The semantics involved in such a category are quite different from those involved in simple apposition.
With proper names typically the first noun is anarthrous and the appositional noun is articular.
Matt 3:1 παραγινεται ιωαννης ο βαπτιστης κηρυσσων
John the Baptist came Preaching
Mark 15:4 0 εν αις ην και μαρια η μαγδαληνη
among them also were Mary the Magdalene...
Luke 1:24 συνελαβεν ελισαβετ η γυνη αυτου
Elizabeth his wife conceived
Rev 1:5 ο μαρτυς ο πιστος ο πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων
the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, Grand Rapids MI, 1996, Daniel Wallace, pp.48-49
• A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament 2 Co 4:17
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
Literally, “the for the moment (old adverb parautika, here only in N.T.) lightness (old word, in N.T. only here and Mat_11:30).”
More and more exceedingly (kath' huperbolēn eis huperbolēn). Like piling Pelion on Ossa, “according to excess unto excess.” See note on 1Co_12:31.
Eternal weight of glory (aiōnion baros doxēs). Careful balancing of words in contrast (affliction vs. glory, lightness vs. weight, for the moment vs. eternal).
• Vincent Word Studies
A far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (καθ' ὑπερεβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης)
Rev., more and more exceedingly an eternal weight, etc. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Lit., exceedingly unto excess. The use of such cumulative expressions is common with Paul. See, for example, Phi_1:23, lit., much more better; Rom_8:37, abundantly the conquerors; Eph_3:20, exceeding abundantly, etc. Note how the words are offset: for a moment, eternal; light, weight; affliction, glory.​

End.

 

[Der Alte]

Previous post, never addressed. Reposted.

Seventeen quotes from the Early Church Fathers which define "aion" and "aionios." These show conclusively that "aion" means "eternity" and "aionios" means "eternal.

[1]Ignatius [A.D. 30-107.] The Epistle to the Romans. Chap III
Nothing visible is eternal.16 “For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.”[2 Cor 54:17-18, 5:1] For our God, Jesus Christ, Bow that He is with18 the Father, is all the more revealed [in His glory]. Christianity is not a thing21 of silence only, but also of [manifest] greatness.
[2]Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology
Chap XIII
For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.
[3]Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202.] Against Heresies. Book I.
Chap X
3. the operation and dispensation of God connected with human salvation; and show that God manifested longsuffering in regard to the apostasy of the angels who transgressed, as also with respect to the disobedience of men; and set forth why it is that one and the same God has made some things temporal and some eternal, some heavenly and others earthly; and understand for what reason God, though invisible, manifested Himself to the prophets...
[4]Athenagoras [a.d. 177.] A Plea for the Christians.
Chap XIX
For, a thing is either uncreated and eternal, or created and perishable.
[5]Clement of Alexandria [a.d. 153-193-217.] The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book I. Chap. VII
Now the law is ancient grace given through Moses by the Word. Wherefore also the Scripture says, “The law was given through Moses,” (Joh_1:17) not by Moses, but by the Word, and through Moses His servant. Wherefore it was only temporary; but eternal grace and truth were by Jesus Christ.
[6] Tertullian [a.d. 145-220] A Treatise on the Soul. Chap XXIV
For that which is eternal, on the ground of its being unborn, since it admits neither of beginning nor end of time, is subject to no temporal criterion.
[7]Tertullian The Five Books Against Marcion. Book V. Chap XI
Then how is it, that in the words which follow he exhorts us not to the things which are seen and are temporal, but to those which are not seen and are eternal (2Co_4:16-18) - in other words, not to the present, but to the future?
[8]Origen [a.d. 145-220] De Principiis. Book I. Chap. II. -
11. To what we then said we shall add only the following remark. That is properly termed everlasting or eternal which neither had a beginning of existence, nor can ever cease to be what it is.
[9]Origen De Principiis. Book II. Chap. III.
6. We must see, moreover, lest perhaps it is with reference to this that the apostle says, “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are unseen are eternal. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” (2 Corinthians 4:17-18,5:1)
[10]Hippolytus [A.D. 170-236] The Refutation of All Heresies. Book I. Chap XIX
Acknowledging the Deity to be eternal and incorruptible, he says that God has providential care for nothing, and that there is no such thing at all as providence or fate, but that all things arc made by chance.
[11]Cyprian. [A.D. 200-258.]Treatise IV
22.After the supply of food, pardon of sin is also asked for, that he who is fed by God may live in God, and that not only the present and temporal life may be provided for, but the eternal also, to which we may come if our sins are forgiven; and these the Lord calls debts, as He says in His Gospel, “I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me.” (Mat_18:32)
[12]Novatian [A.D. 210-280.] A Treatise Concerning the Trinity Chap 2
For this reason, therefore, He [God] is always unbounded, because nothing is greater than He; always eternal, because nothing is more ancient than He. For that which is without beginning can be preceded by none, in that He has no time. He is on that account immortal, that He does not come to an end by any ending of His completeness.
[13]Cyprian [A.D. 170-236] Epistle I
14.How stable, how free from all shocks is that safeguard; how heavenly the protection in its perennial blessings, - to be loosed from the snares of this entangling world, and to be purged from earthly dregs, and fitted for the light of eternal immortality!
[14]Gregory Thaumaturgus [A.D. 205-240-265.] A Declaration of Faith
There is one Lord, Only of the Only, God of God, Image and Likeness of Deity, Efficient Word, Wisdom comprehensive of the constitution of all things, and Power formative of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, Invisible of Invisible, and Incorruptible of Incorruptible, and Immortal of Immortal and Eternal of Eternal.
[15]Methodius [A.D. 260-312.]Discourse V. Chap. V.
I am betrothed to the Word, and receive as a reward the eternal crown of immortality and riches from the Father; and I triumph in eternity, crowned with the bright and unfading flowers of wisdom.
[16]Lactantius [a.d. 260-330.] The Divine Institutes Book I
The Divine Institutes Book I Chap III
But if destruction is far removed from God, because He is incorruptible and eternal, it follows that the divine power is incapable of division.
[17]Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book V Chap XIX
For to Jews the Lord is still dead, but to Christians He is risen: to the former, by their unbelief; to the latter, by their full assurance of faith. For the hope in Him is immortal and eternal life.​

End.

 

[Anne Harris]

following with interest

 

[Dirk1540]

The Bible uses the phrase “second death” four times, all in the book of Revelation (Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:6, Revelation 20:14, and Revelation 21:8). What does “second death” mean?

In a way this question can be answered very simply:

Second death means simply to die a second time. This second dying involves the complete destruction of both body and soul (see Matthew 10:28).

I believe this simple answer is entirely accurate. But it needs to be defended with lots of evidence. The reason a detailed defense is called for is that many Bible believing Christians today and throughout most of church history have been taught that the phrase “second death” means something like this:

Second death means to remain alive forever while confined to hell in a state of unending conscious torment.

Thus, to ask the question “What is the second death?” among Christians often results in a comparison of two views:

A brief explanation of the traditional view of the second death

I don’t like it when people set up straw men. So what comes next is my attempt to present the best argument in favor of the eternal torment interpretation of “the second death”. The argument really is not complex.

The traditional interpretation of “second death” leans heavily on this verse:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 is then combined with this verse from the same passage:

Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Two assumptions are made:
1. John’s vision of the devil, the beast, and the false prophet being tormented day and night for ever and ever is literal (by “literal” I mean non-figurative, non-symbolic, non-metaphoric).
2. What happens to the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will also happen to all the unsaved when they are thrown into the same lake of fire.

This interpretation is strengthened by an appeal to this passage in Revelation 14:

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,

10 they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

The following assumptions are made:
1. This is referring to the same thing as the lake of fire in Revelation 20.
2. The vision of smoke rising for ever and ever refers to literal everlasting torture.
3. The fate of all unsaved people is the same as the fate of those who receive the mark of the beast.

If all of the above assumptions are correct, then Revelation 14 and 20 provide an extremely strong argument in favor of eternal conscious torment. When I was transitioning from belief in eternal torment to belief in annihilationism, all the other arguments for eternal torment appeared to be very weak. But these arguments from Revelation appeared strong. I took them seriously then, and I still do now.

I no longer have any doubts about these passages. I am thoroughly convinced that the eternal torment interpretation of the “second death” is wrong. In the rest of this opening post I will share some of my reasons.

A Wrong Assumption

The eternal torment view of the “second death” is based on the assumption that the visions of eternal torment in Revelation 14 and 20 should be interpreted literally. This assumption is wrong.

This wrong assumption is understandable in light of the great damage done to God’s truth by some versions of liberal theology not taking many parts of the Bible literally, such as:

1. The virgin birth of Christ.
2. The miracles seen throughout the Bible.
3. The physical, bodily resurrection of Christ.

Treating these literal truths as mere symbols has undermined foundations of core gospel truths and has done great damage to the gospel and the Church. I want to guard the precious literal truths that Christ was born of a virgin, that He did many astounding miracles which legitimize the claim that He is the Son of God, and that He really, physically, literally rose from the dead. But just because many parts of the Bible are literal does not mean all parts are literal.

Here are some obvious examples of parts of the Bible which are not literal:

1. In Pharaoh’s dream he sees cannibalistic cows eating other cows. The dream does not mean that some cows literally eat other cows (Genesis 41:20). We know this because the interpretation of the dream is given.
2. Jesus says , “I am the gate for the sheep” (John 10:7). We know He is not a literal gate because that would be absurd.
3. Jesus commands us, “if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out” (Matthew 9:47). Again, a literal interpretation is absurd and also inconsistent with the example of the rest of Scripture.
4. Jesus tells the woman at the well that “an hour” is coming when people will worship God in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23, see ESV which has the literal translation “hour”). Jesus did not mean that this new worship would last only one literal hour!

Some parts of the Bible use more symbols and symbolic language than others. Historical narratives contain little symbolism. Teaching contains more. Poetry and teaching in the form of parables use still more symbols. But the most symbolic parts of the Bible are dreams and visions. The whole book of Revelation consists of highly symbolic visions!

The fact that Revelation is a book which should be understood symbolically is not an idea originating from either annihilationists or liberal theologians. It is the widespread view of conservative, evangelical scholars who have studied the book in great detail. I recently read two excellent commentaries on Revelation which are highly regarded by conservative evangelicals. Both of the authors have a traditional view of hell. Although they differ on many specific interpretations and have somewhat different broad interpretative schemes, they both agree on the highly symbolic nature of Revelation.

Robert Mounce wrote:

This should warn the reader not to expect a literal presentation of future history, but a symbolic portrayal of that which must yet take place. It is important for an adequate understanding of Revelation to remember that God is communicating his message by means of visions that are symbolic rather than literal. (Mounce, The Book of Revelation, Revised Edition, 1997, pg. 42).​

G. K. Beale wrote:

In this light the dictum of the popular approach to Revelation – “interpret literally unless you are forced to interpret symbolically” – should be turned on its head. Instead, the programmatic statement about the book’s precise mode of communication in 1:1 is that the warp and woof of it is symbolic, so that the preceding dictum should be reversed to say “interpret symbolically unless you are forced to interpret literally.” Better put, the reader is to expect that the main means of divine revelation in this book is symbolic. (Beale, Revelation, A Shorter Commentary, 2015, pg. 12).​

You don’t have to take the word of scholars or spend years studying Revelation like they did to see the symbolic nature of this book. Just look for yourself! Consider these twelve examples of the massive use of symbols and symbolic language throughout Revelation:

1. The seven lampstands are not literal lampstands (Revelation 1:12). We know this because we are told the lampstands stand for seven churches (Revelation 1:20).
2. It is highly unlikely that there is a woman literally named Jezebel (Revelation 2:20) in the church at Thyatira. Her name symbolizes the fact that she is promoting idolatry and evil like the Jezebel of the Old Testament.
3. God is not going to turn faithful Christians in Philadelphia into literal pillars (Revelation 3:12).
4. Jesus does not literally have seven horns and seven eyes (Revelation 5:6). John really sees a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes IN HIS VISION and this lamb is Jesus, but this does NOT mean that Jesus really has seven eyes or seven horns (or any horns!!!).
5. In Revelation 6:13, in his vision, John sees stars falling from the sky to earth. This does not likely mean literal stars fall to the earth. In response to this, people hide in caves (Revelation 6:15). Really? If a single literal star fell to the earth would anyone be able to hide in a cave in response? John’s vision is full of symbolic things which do not literally happen. The vision is entirely true, but its true interpretation depends on us understanding its symbolic nature.
6. In Revelation 7:1, John sees four angels standing at “the four corners of the earth”. Does this prove the Bible is wrong since the earth does not literally have four corners? No! John is reporting what he sees in highly symbolic visions, not reporting what the earth literally looks like from space. IN HIS VISION the earth has four corners. It’s not meant to be literal.
7. In Revelation 10:10, John eats a scroll. In his vision he is actually eating it. That doesn’t mean that in real life John had to literally eat a scroll. It is symbolic and probably means something like internalizing the truth of God which he is to then speak to others.
8. In Revelation 12 John sees a seven headed dragon standing over a woman about to give birth. The dragon wants to eat the baby. This is shocking. The woman is given wings so she can escape from the dragon. There are many interpretations, but none of them are literal.
9. In Revelation 13 John sees two terrible beasts. In the vision he really sees these beasts, but that does not mean these beasts are literal creatures that some people will one day meet in real life. Part of the meaning of the beasts is given to John. They seem to represent the evil use of government power and the deception of false religion. The second beast seems to be identical to the “false prophet” in Revelation.
10. In Revelation 14, John sees “another angel” with a sharp sickle. He uses the sickle to “reap the earth”. This is not literal. John really sees this in his vision, but the reaping stands for God gathering all mankind to judgment.
11. In Revelation 17 we read about a “great prostitute seated on many waters”. This is also not literal, as the context makes clear. In this same vision John sees the prostitute sitting on the seven headed beast and sees her drunk with the blood of the saints. John really sees this, but Revelation is not a book about a literal vampire-prostitute who rides a literal seven headed monster. It is a book about an evil alliance of materialism, abuse of government power, sexual immorality, and demonic influence which persecutes and kills some of God’s people. In the end this evil alliance is utterly defeated by our Lord Jesus Christ. Then, all God’s people, including those who were martyred, live forever in eternal joy. (note: The phrase “vampire-prostitute”, like many of the ideas in this series, is not original with me. I have been greatly helped in my understanding of the “second death” by the Rethinking Hell team, and in this case I remember Chris Date calling the prostitute a “vampire-prostitute” or something similar.)
12. In Revelation 18:8 we are told that plagues will overtake Babylon in “a single day”. But this time period is symbolic. How do we know? One of the plagues is “famine”. Now, if I didn’t eat for one whole day I might say, “I’m famished”, but of course I would not be speaking literally!

Many more examples could be given. There are many different interpretations of Revelation, and in some cases there is disagreement over whether a particular part of John’s vision is literal or symbolic. But the examples above show that there are many parts of John’s vision which are widely understood by theologically conservative evangelical Christians as symbolic and not literal.

There are two main reasons the examples above are obvious symbols:

Either a literal interpretation is absurd and ridiculous
and/or
John is specifically told what a part of his vision means, revealing that it was not literal.

As I will explain, both of these reasons apply to the eternal torment seen in the lake of fire in Revelation 20. Eternal torment is absurd and ridiculous. And John is specifically told what the lake of fire means.

Eternal Torment by Our Good God is Absurd

First, we should recognize that the eternal torment which John saw in his visions in Revelation 14 and 20 is symbolic, not literal, because literal eternal torment would be absurd. God is perfectly represented by Jesus Christ in His character, actions, and teachings. Jesus commands us to love our enemies like our Heavenly Father does. He prayed for those who were crucifying Him. And we are supposed to believe that He would torture those same enemies for billions of years and then keep going for billions more (for ever!)? If there is no hope of redemption (which is the case after final judgment), then annihilation is neither unjust nor unloving. But eternal torture? Absurd. Jesus does not literally have seven eyes, He is not going to turn his faithful followers in literal pillars, and He is not going to literally torture the unsaved forever and ever. While our feeling that eternal torment is absurd is correct, in part 5 (this post was originally part of a 7 part series on my blog, I'm only posting part 1 here, at least for now) I will give extensive Biblical evidence to show that our feeling is in line with what the Bible teaches and is in fact a part of our God given conscious.

In addition to the fact that eternal torment would be absurd, there is even stronger evidence that eternal torment in the lake of fire is not literal. John tells us exactly what the lake of fire means.

A Backwards Interpretation of a Key Sentence from God’s Word

One of the main causes of the misinterpretation of “second death” by many Christians is that a key sentence in Revelation has been interpreted backwards. In the book of Revelation, John is largely reporting what he “saw” (Revelation 1:19, and over 50 uses of “see” or “saw” throughout the book). Included in what John saw in his vision are many strange things whose meanings are not immediately obvious. In some cases John does not give us a meaning for the things he sees. But at other times he gives very explicit and simple meanings. When these helpful meanings are examined, a consistent pattern emerges.

Let’s look at three easy to understand examples from Revelation, and then compare these to “the second death”.

Example #1: “. . . gold bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people” (Rev 5:8b)

In this first example, John actually does see, in his vision, golden bowls full of incense. But the incense is symbolic. We know this because John explicitly tells us the meaning. Notice also how crazy it would be to interpret Revelation 5:8 backwards. A backwards interpretation would say that the true meaning of prayer is incense. Then, whenever we read about prayer in the rest of the Bible, we would wrongly assume that prayer did not mean talking to God, but rather prayer meant burning incense. And when we went to obey the commands of the Bible to be devoted to prayer, we would buy and burn some incense. That would be ridiculous, and thankfully no one has made this mistake.


Example #2: “Fine linen stand for the righteous acts of God’s holy people” (Rev 19:8b).

In this second example, John hears that the bride of Christ will wear bright and clean fine linen. He is also told that the fine linen is a symbol. This does not mean that we will not actually wear fine linen in Heaven. Perhaps we will. But the main point is that this fine linen is a symbol of the righteous acts of God’s people. How terrible (and silly) it would be if someone read a verse like Matthew 5:16 and then, based on Revelation 19:8, thought Jesus was teaching us that it was important to wear fine linen for others to see and glorify God. That would be backwards. Righteous acts do not mean wearing fine linen. Rather, wearing fine linen in John’s vision was a symbol for righteous acts.

Example 3: “The waters you saw . . . are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages” (Rev 17:15).

In Revelation 17:1, John is shown a prostitute sitting on (or by) “waters”. In his vision I have no doubt that he saw “waters”. But the waters stand for peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages. Perhaps you think “waters” is a strange symbol for groups of people. But since the Bible explicitly tells us that the waters stand for nations and languages, it must be true.

The three examples above are not difficult to understand. So, hopefully you will be able to see the very inconsistent way in which many Christians (including myself in the past!) have wrongly interpreted the lake of fire.

The traditional view reads this verse backwards as if John saw a vision of people dying a second time and was then told that “the second death is the lake of fire”. Traditionalists then take this strange definition of death and apply it to other verses like Romans 6:23:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

They say that “death” does not mean what we normally think of as “death”. Indeed, the traditional view is that the unsaved NEVER actually die. Instead they live forever in the lake of fire. Hopefully by now you can see that this is backwards. What the Bible actually says is that the lake of fire which John saw in his vision is a symbol for dying a second time.

On the one hand, I feel like the evidence already presented in part 1 of this series should be enough to settle the meaning of second death. The pattern of how symbols in John’s visions are defined is actually quite clear and simple.

On the other hand, I am well aware that the traditional interpretation of “second death” as eternal torment is deeply ingrained and wide spread among Bible believing Christians. Also, I am well aware of traditional counterarguments. So I believe it is best to present more evidence that “second death” literally means “to die a second time”. Thankfully, there is a LOT more evidence, as I hope you will see in the following posts (These posts are on my blog. If you choose to read them, please do come back here to Christian Forums to discuss them. )

What is the Second Death Blog Series


Part 1 (this blog post): Symbols and meanings
In this post, we have looked at the use of symbols in Revelation. We have seen how the traditional view of eternal torment is a result of interpreting a symbol backwards.

Part 2: A Mountain of Spaghetti
In part two we will consider the different meanings, literal and metaphorical, of “death” in the Bible. We will then examine evidence to decide which of these meanings is present in the phrase “second death”.

Part 3: Fire
Because the phrase “second death” is explaining John’s vision of a lake of fire, we will look at the use of fire for judgment throughout the Bible. We will see that God uses fire to consume His enemies.

Part 4: Blood
Here we will discuss how to best interpret the only two phrases in the Bible which contain the idea of eternal torment. We will look at a massive sea of blood which John sees in his vision as an example of hyperbolic metaphor being used to describe terrible judgment.

Part 5: Eye for Eye
In part 5 we will look at the God-given principle of proportional punishment. We will see how this principle provides Biblical confirmation of our “gut feeling” that eternal torment is absurd and should be interpreted as hyperbolic metaphor.

Part 6: Harmony
This is a (very condensed) look at what the whole rest of the Bible says about the final fate of the ungodly. The Bible is always harmonious when correctly understood. We will see how the whole Bible provides the strong evidence for the annihilationist understanding of “second death”.

Part 7: Hallowed
Why is all this important? Why spend time and energy on trying to correct a deeply entrenched traditional interpretation? We find the answer in the Lord’s Prayer and in visions of glorious worship.

All of this material is awesome! I just printed out parts 2 through 7, thanks a lot for making these great threads!!

 

[Mark Corbett]

All of this material is awesome! I just printed out parts 2 through 7, thanks a lot for making these great threads!!

Thanks for your encouraging words. I pray that God will use the material to help you and others.

 

[ClementofA]

Here are words from Jesus that show plainly that aion cannot be defined as eternity.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;1
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matt. 13:36-43 KJV)

The word "world" which is bolded is the word aion. The end of the age, not the end of the world. This passage cannot be understood if you translate aion as eternity. Jesus said, at the end of the age, the wicked would be gathered together and THEN the righteous will shine forth. Eternity doesn't end. You can't have a period of time after eternity. Yet Jesus clearly indicates that there is a period of time after the end of the age when He says THEN, the righteous shall shine forth. The righteous aren't going to shine forth after eternity.

Aion literally means age, eon. It refers to a duration of time, often an epoch.

Does “foreverS and everS” Make Sense to You? | Love Wins Because God Is Love…

 

[Der Alte]

Aion literally means age, eon. It refers to a duration of time, often an epoch.

Does “foreverS and everS” Make Sense to You? | Love Wins Because God Is Love…

No matter how many times you post this, it is still wrong.
.....Eight verses from the NT which conclusively show that "aion" definitely means "eternity" and "aionios" definitely means "eternal."

[1] 1 Timothy 1:17
(17) Now unto the King eternal, (1) immortal,(2) invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever (1) and ever (1). Amen.
(1) αἰών/aion (2) ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos​

In this verse “aion” is in apposition, see def. below, with “immortal.” If “aion” means “age(s),” a finite period, God cannot be for “a finite period” and “immortal” at the same time. God is “eternal” and “immortal” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[2] Romans 2:7
(7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,(2) eternal (1) life:​

“Aion” is in apposition with “immortality.” If “aion” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternity” and “immortality” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[3] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal (1a) weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;(3) but the things which are not seen are eternal.(1a)
(1a) αἰώνιος/aionios (3) πρόσκαιρος/proskairos​

Here “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Aionios” cannot mean “age(s)” a finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary.” “Eternal” is.

[4] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1)For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal (1a) in the heavens.​

Here “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” An “aionios” house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” “Aionios” means “eternal.”

[5] Hebrews 7:24
(24) But this man, because he continueth ever,(1) hath an unchangeable (4) priesthood.
(4) ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos ​

Here “unchangeable” is in apposition with “aion.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Melchizadek cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[6] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,(2) by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.(1)​

Here “incorruptible” is in apposition with “aion.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only for “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”

[7] 1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]​

Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”

[8] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[αἰώνιος/aionios]​

Here “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “fleshly” people reap “corruption” but people in the spirit people reap life aionios i.e. not “corruption.” “Aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
.....The definition of “apposition” from a Greek grammar.

III. Nominative in Simple Apposition
The nominative case (as well as the other cases) can be an appositive to another substantive in the same case. The usage is quite common. There are four features of simple apposition to be noted (the first two are structural clues; the last two features are semantic): An appositional construction inz’olz’es (1) two adjacent substantives (2)in the same case (40) (3) which refer to the same person or thing, (4) and have the same syntactical relation to the rest of the clause.
The first substantive can belong to any category (e.g., subject, Predicate nom., etc.) and the second is merely a clarification, description, or identification of who or what is mentioned.(41) Thus, the appositive “piggy-backs” on the first nominative’s use, as it were. For this reason simple apposition is not an independent syntactical category.
The appositive functions very much like a PN in a convertible proposition that is, it refers to the same thing as the first noun.(42) The difference, however, is that a PN makes an assertion about the S (an equative verb is either stated or implied); with appositives there is assumption, not assertion (no verb is in mind). In the sentence “Paul is an apostle,” apostle is a PN; in the sentence, “Paul the apostle is in prison,” apostle is in apposition to Paul.
(40)The nom. occasionally is in apposition to an oblique case, but the semantics are the same. See discussion below.
(41) An appositive, strictly speaking, is substantival, not adjectival. Thus, adjectives or Participles in second attributive position are not generally appositives, but usually hate an adjectival force.
(42) The significance of this will be seen in our discussion of the gen. case, for the gen can also involve a syntactical category, vi.t., the gen of apposition. The semantics involved in such a category are quite different from those involved in simple apposition.
With proper names typically the first noun is anarthrous and the appositional noun is articular.
Matt 3:1 παραγινεται ιωαννης ο βαπτιστης κηρυσσων
John the Baptist came Preaching
Mark 15:4 0 εν αις ην και μαρια η μαγδαληνη
among them also were Mary the Magdalene...
Luke 1:24 συνελαβεν ελισαβετ η γυνη αυτου
Elizabeth his wife conceived
Rev 1:5 ο μαρτυς ο πιστος ο πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων
the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, Grand Rapids MI, 1996, Daniel Wallace, pp.48-49
• A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament 2 Co 4:17
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
Literally, “the for the moment (old adverb parautika, here only in N.T.) lightness (old word, in N.T. only here and Mat_11:30).”
More and more exceedingly (kath' huperbolēn eis huperbolēn). Like piling Pelion on Ossa, “according to excess unto excess.” See note on 1Co_12:31.
Eternal weight of glory (aiōnion baros doxēs). Careful balancing of words in contrast (affliction vs. glory, lightness vs. weight, for the moment vs. eternal).
• Vincent Word Studies
A far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (καθ' ὑπερεβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης)
Rev., more and more exceedingly an eternal weight, etc. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Lit., exceedingly unto excess. The use of such cumulative expressions is common with Paul. See, for example, Phi_1:23, lit., much more better; Rom_8:37, abundantly the conquerors; Eph_3:20, exceeding abundantly, etc. Note how the words are offset: for a moment, eternal; light, weight; affliction, glory.​

 

[Butch5]

Aion literally means age, eon. It refers to a duration of time, often an epoch.

Does “foreverS and everS” Make Sense to You? | Love Wins Because God Is Love…

I agree!

 

[ClementofA]

No matter how many times you post this, it is still wrong.
....

So you think Strong's concordance is wrong to state that aion means properly an "age"?

Did Jesus think aion meant eternal, not "age", when He spoke of the "end of the age"[aion] (Mt.28:20, NASB, NIV etc)? If an aion has an "end", can it possibly be eternal?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Der Alte]

So you think Strong's concordance is wrong to state that aion means properly an "age"?
Did Jesus think aion meant eternal, not "age", when He spoke of the "end of the age"[aion] (Mt.28:20, NASB, NIV etc)? If an aion has an "end", can it possibly be eternal?

Please show me any verse where Jesus used aion/aionios in a way which clearly defines them, as in the several verses I quoted? Did you read my post and did you completely understand it?
.....While you are considering that, consider this. There were literal stones when Jesus called Simon Petros/Cephas but Simon was not actually a stone. There were literal foxes when Jesus called Herod a fox but Herod was not actually a fox. There was literal thunder when Jesus called James and John sons of thunder but thunder was not actually their father.

 

[Der Alte]

I agree!

And you are as wrong as ClementofA. Merely affirming something which is wrong to be right does not make it right. See my [post #71] above

 

[ClementofA]

And you are as wrong as ClementofA. Merely affirming something which is wrong to be right does not make it right. See my [post #71] above

So you think LSJ lexicon is wrong, eh?

Liddel Scott Jones entry re aion:

αἰών , ῶνος, ὁ, Ion. and Ep. also ἡ, as in Pi.P.4.186, E.Ph.1484: apocop. acc. αἰῶ,
A.like Ποσειδῶ, restored by Ahrens (from AB363) in A.Ch.350: (properly αἰϝών, cf. aevum, v. αἰεί):—period of existence (“τὸ τέλος τὸ περιέχον τὸν τῆς ἑκάστου ζωῆς χρόνον . . αἰὼν ἑκάστου κέκληται” Arist.Cael.279a25):
I. lifetime, life, “ψυχή τε καὶ αἰών” Il.16.453; “ἐκ δ᾽ αἰ. πέφαται” Il.19.27; “μηδέ τοι αἰ. φθινέτω” Od.5.160; “λείπει τινά” Il.5.685; ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος νέος ὤλεο (Zenod. νέον) 24.725; “τελευτᾶν τὸν αἰῶνα” Hdt.1.32, etc.; “αἰῶνος στερεῖν τινά” A.Pr.862; “αἰῶνα διοιχνεῖν” Id.Eu.315; “συνδιατρίβειν” Cratin. 1; αἰ. Αἰακιδᾶν, periphr. for the Aeacidae, S.Aj.645 s. v. l.; “ἀπέπνευσεν αἰῶνα” E.Fr.801; “ἐμὸν κατ᾽ αἰῶνα” A.Th.219.
2. age, generation, αἰ. ἐς τρίτον ib.744; ὁ μέλλων αἰών posterity, D.18.199, cf. Pl.Ax.370c.
3. one's life, destiny, lot, S.Tr.34, E.Andr.1215, Fr.30, etc.
II. long space of time, age, αἰὼν γίγνεται 'tis an age, Men.536.5; esp. with Preps., ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος of old, Hes.Th.609, Ev.Luc.1.70; “οἱ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαῖοι” D.C. 63.20; δι᾽ αἰῶνος perpetually, A.Ch.26, Eu.563; all one's life long, S. El.1024; δι᾽ αἰῶνος μακροῦ, ἀπαύστου, A.Supp.582,574; τὸν δι᾽ αἰ. χρόνον for ever, Id.Ag.554; εἰς ἅπαντα τὸν αἰ. Lycurg.106, Isoc.10.62; εἰς τὸν αἰ. LXX Ge.3.23, al., D.S.21.17, Ev.Jo.8.35, Ps.-Luc. Philopatr.17; “εἰς αἰῶνα αἰῶνος” LXX Ps.131(132).14; ἐξ αἰῶνος καὶ ἕως αἰῶνος ib.Je.7.7; ἐπ᾽ αἰ. ib.Ex.15.18; ἕως αἰῶνος ib.1 Ki.1.22, al.:— without a Prep., τὸν ἅπαντα αἰ. Arist. Cael.279a22; “τὸν αἰῶνα” Lycurg. 62, Epicur.Ep.1p.8U.; eternity, opp. χρόνος, Pl.Ti.37d, cf. Metrod. Fr.37, Ph.1.496,619, Plot.3.7.5, etc.; “τοὺς ὑπὲρ τοῦ αἰῶνος φόβους” Epicur.Sent.20.
2. space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος this present world, opp. ὁ μέλλων, Ev.Matt.13.22, cf. Ep.Rom.12.2; ὁ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ep.Tim.6.17, 2 Ep.Tim.4.10:—hence in pl., the ages, i.e. eternity, Phld.D.3 Fr.84; “εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ.” LXX To.13.4; εἰς τοὺς αἰ.ib.Si.45.24, al., Ep.Rom.1.25, etc.; “εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων” LXX 4 Ma.18.24, Ep.Phil.4.20, etc.; ἀπὸ τῶν αἰ., πρὸ τῶν αἰ., Ep.Eph.3.9, 1Cor.2.7; τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. ib.10.11.
3. Αἰών, ὁ, personified, “Αἰὼν Χρόνου παῖς” E.Heracl.900 (lyr.), cf. Corp.Herm.11, etc.; as title of various divine beings, Dam.Pr.151, al.; esp.=Persian Zervan, Suid. s.v. Ἡραἰ̈σκος.
4. Pythag., = 10, Theol.Ar.59.
B. spinal marrow (perh. regarded as seat of life), h.Merc 42, 119, Pi.Fr.111, Hp.Epid.7.122; perh. also Il.19.27.

LSJ
Greek Word Study Tool

 

[Butch5]

And you are as wrong as ClementofA. Merely affirming something which is wrong to be right does not make it right. See my [post #71] above

I've already seen you arguments. They don't align with Scripture. Jesus clearly speaks of the end of the age. It doesn't matter how many dictionaries or commentaries you post, it simple doesn't mean eternal.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;1
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Matt. 13:37-43 KJV)

The word "world" is aion. If we use your claim that it means eternal then the righteous won't shine forth until after eternity. Since eternity never end, the righteous would never shine forth using your definition. This shows plainly beyond any doubt that aion does not mean eternal.

 

[Der Alte]

So you think LSJ lexicon is wrong, eh?
Liddel Scott Jones entry re aion:
αἰών , ῶνος, ὁ, Ion. and Ep. also ἡ, as in Pi.P.4.186, E.Ph.1484: apocop. acc. αἰῶ,
A.like Ποσειδῶ, restored by Ahrens (from AB363) in A.Ch.350: (properly αἰϝών, cf. aevum, v. αἰεί):—period of existence (“τὸ τέλος τὸ περιέχον τὸν τῆς ἑκάστου ζωῆς χρόνον . . αἰὼν ἑκάστου κέκληται” Arist.Cael.279a25):
I. lifetime, life, “ψυχή τε καὶ αἰών” Il.16.453; “ἐκ δ᾽ αἰ. πέφαται” Il.19.27; “μηδέ τοι αἰ. φθινέτω” Od.5.160; “λείπει τινά” Il.5.685; ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος νέος ὤλεο (Zenod. νέον) 24.725; “τελευτᾶν τὸν αἰῶνα” Hdt.1.32, etc.; “αἰῶνος στερεῖν τινά” A.Pr.862; “αἰῶνα διοιχνεῖν” Id.Eu.315; “συνδιατρίβειν” Cratin. 1; αἰ. Αἰακιδᾶν, periphr. for the Aeacidae, S.Aj.645 s. v. l.; “ἀπέπνευσεν αἰῶνα” E.Fr.801; “ἐμὸν κατ᾽ αἰῶνα” A.Th.219.
2. age, generation, αἰ. ἐς τρίτον ib.744; ὁ μέλλων αἰών posterity, D.18.199, cf. Pl.Ax.370c.
3. one's life, destiny, lot, S.Tr.34, E.Andr.1215, Fr.30, etc.
II. long space of time, age, αἰὼν γίγνεται 'tis an age, Men.536.5; esp. with Preps., ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος of old, Hes.Th.609, Ev.Luc.1.70; “οἱ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαῖοι” D.C. 63.20; δι᾽ αἰῶνος perpetually, A.Ch.26, Eu.563; all one's life long, S. El.1024; δι᾽ αἰῶνος μακροῦ, ἀπαύστου, A.Supp.582,574; τὸν δι᾽ αἰ. χρόνον for ever, Id.Ag.554; εἰς ἅπαντα τὸν αἰ. Lycurg.106, Isoc.10.62; εἰς τὸν αἰ. LXX Ge.3.23, al., D.S.21.17, Ev.Jo.8.35, Ps.-Luc. Philopatr.17; “εἰς αἰῶνα αἰῶνος” LXX Ps.131(132).14; ἐξ αἰῶνος καὶ ἕως αἰῶνος ib.Je.7.7; ἐπ᾽ αἰ. ib.Ex.15.18; ἕως αἰῶνος ib.1 Ki.1.22, al.:— without a Prep., τὸν ἅπαντα αἰ. Arist. Cael.279a22; “τὸν αἰῶνα” Lycurg. 62, Epicur.Ep.1p.8U.; eternity, opp. χρόνος, Pl.Ti.37d, cf. Metrod. Fr.37, Ph.1.496,619, Plot.3.7.5, etc.; “τοὺς ὑπὲρ τοῦ αἰῶνος φόβους” Epicur.Sent.20.
2. space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος this present world, opp. ὁ μέλλων, Ev.Matt.13.22, cf. Ep.Rom.12.2; ὁ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ep.Tim.6.17, 2 Ep.Tim.4.10:—hence in pl., the ages, i.e. eternity, Phld.D.3 Fr.84; “εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ.” LXX To.13.4; εἰς τοὺς αἰ.ib.Si.45.24, al., Ep.Rom.1.25, etc.; “εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων” LXX 4 Ma.18.24, Ep.Phil.4.20, etc.; ἀπὸ τῶν αἰ., πρὸ τῶν αἰ., Ep.Eph.3.9, 1Cor.2.7; τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. ib.10.11.
3. Αἰών, ὁ, personified, “Αἰὼν Χρόνου παῖς” E.Heracl.900 (lyr.), cf. Corp.Herm.11, etc.; as title of various divine beings, Dam.Pr.151, al.; esp.=Persian Zervan, Suid. s.v. Ἡραἰ̈σκος.
4. Pythag., = 10, Theol.Ar.59.
B. spinal marrow (perh. regarded as seat of life), h.Merc 42, 119, Pi.Fr.111, Hp.Epid.7.122; perh. also Il.19.27.
LSJ
Greek Word Study Tool

LSJ is a classical Greek lexicon.

Athens was conquered in the fourth century B.C. by King Philip of Macedonia. Alexander the Great, Philip’s son, who was tutored by the Greek philosopher Aristotle, set out to conquer the world and spread Greek culture and language. Because Alexander spoke Attic Greek, it was this dialect that was spread. It was also the dialect spoken by the famous Athenian writers. This was the beginning of the Hellenistic Age.
As the Greek language spread across the world and met other languages, it was altered (which is true of any language). The dialects also interacted with each other. Eventually this adaptation resulted in what today we call Koine Greek. "Koine" (κοινή) means "common" and describes the common, everyday form of the language, used by everyday people. It was not considered a polished literary form of the language, and in fact some writers of this era purposefully imitated the older style of Greek (which is like someone today writing in King James English). Koine was a simplified form of classical Greek and unfortunately many of the subtleties of classical Greek were lost. For example, in classical Greek ἄλλος meant "other" of the same kind while ἕτερος meant "other" of a different kind. If you had an apple and you asked for ἄλλος, you would receive another apple. But if you asked for ἕτερος, you would be given perhaps an orange. Some of these subtleties come through in Scripture but not often. It is this common Koine Greek that is used in the Septuagint,
New Testament, and the writings of the Apostolic Fathers.
For a long time Koine Greek confused many scholars. It was significantly different from Classical Greek.
Bill Mounce is the founder and President of BiblicalTraining.org, serves on the Committee for Bible Translation (which is responsible for the NIV translation of the Bible), and has written the best-selling biblical Greek textbook, Basics of Biblical Greek, and many other Greek resources.
History of the Greek Language | billmounce.com.​

Now let us review the Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)

[BDAG] αἰώνιος•αἰώνιος (ία Pla., Tim. 38b; Jer 39:40; Ezk 37:26; OdeSol 11:22; TestAbr A; JosAs 8:11 cod. A; 2 Th 2:16; Hb 9:12; mss. Ac 13:48; 2 Pt 1:11; AcPl BMM recto 27=Ox 1602, 29; Just., A I, 8, 4 al.; B-D-F §59, 2; Mlt-H. 157),ον eternal (since Hyperid. 6, 27; Pla.; ins, pap, LXX, En, TestSol, TestAbr A, Test12Patr; JosAs 12:12; GrBar 4:16; ApcEsdr; ApcMos 29; Ps.-Phocyl. 112; Just.; Tat. 17, 1; Ath., Mel.; standard epithet for princely, esp. imperial, power: OGI index VIII; BGU 176, 12; 303, 2; 309, 4; Sb 7517, 5 [211/12 AD] κύριος αἰ.; al. in pap; Jos., Ant. 7, 352).
1. pert. to a long period of time, long ago χρόνοις αἰ. long ages ago Ro 16:25; πρὸ χρόνων αἰ. before time began 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 (in these two last pass. the prep. bears the semantic content of priority; on χρόνος αἰ. cp. OGI 248, 54; 383, 10).
2. pert. to a period of time without beginning or end, eternal of God (Ps.-Pla., Tim. Locr. 96c θεὸν τ. αἰώνιον; IBM 894, 2 αἰ. κ. ἀθάνατος τοῦ παντὸς φύσις; Gen 21:33; Is 26:4; 40:28; Bar 4:8 al.; Philo, Plant. 8; 74; SibOr fgm. 3, 17 and 4; PGM 1, 309; 13, 280) Ro 16:26; of the Holy Spirit in Christ Hb 9:14. θρόνος αἰ. 1 Cl 65:2 (cp. 1 Macc 2:57).
3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod. S. 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I BC] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248-50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109-28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12.κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod. S. 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2(cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9.πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod. S. 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3; PsSol 3, 12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11(ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳbe glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186-201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217-28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.
A Greek-English Lexicon Gingrich & Danker​

And as I said in the vss. I quoted aion/aionios is clearly defined. And there are no, zero, none vss. which "define" aion/aionios as a finite period of time.

 

[ClementofA]

Please show me any verse where Jesus used aion/aionios in a way which clearly defines them, as in the several verses I quoted?

Each individual context determines the meaning of a word. No single context determines the meaning of a word for all other contexts. As for a definition of aion, you evidently are in disagreement with many dictionaries, lexicons, Greek-English Interlinears, etc, & say they are wrong to define aion as an age or to say aion means literally an age.

"eon (n.)
1640s, from Late Latin aeon, from Greek aion "age, vital force; a period of existence, a lifetime, a generation; a long space of time," in plural, "eternity," from PIE root *aiw-
"vital force, life, long life, eternity" (source also of Sanskrit ayu "life," Avestan ayu "age," Latin aevum "space of time, eternity," Gothic aiws "age, eternity," Old Norse ævi
"lifetime," German ewig "everlasting," Old English a "ever, always"). Related: Eonian; eonic."

eon | Origin and history of eon by Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[Der Alte]

I've already seen you arguments. They don't align with Scripture. Jesus clearly speaks of the end of the age. It doesn't matter how many dictionaries or commentaries you post, it simple doesn't mean eternal.

Did you even read my post? You evidently do not know or understand the difference between consulting dictionaries and commentaries, which I did not do, and showing how a word is contrasted or equated with other words which show the meaning, which I did do. For example

1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]​

Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”

The word "world" is aion. If we use your claim that it means eternal then the righteous won't shine forth until after eternity. Since eternity never end, the righteous would never shine forth using your definition. This shows plainly beyond any doubt that aion does not mean eternal.

One occurrence does not "prove" anything. Please see my previous [post #61] above, to learn what the grammatical term "apposition" means. Written by Dr. Daniel Wallace who has taught graduate level Greek for 30+ years.