The "Jesus" we accept, MUST be "PREACHED".

unbelievable1

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Here's what John says about that:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. - John 1:1-18

At Jesus' baptism Who He is (Who He always was and always will be) was revealed. He was not made anything in that moment, He has always been God)
Great post!!
 
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Dartman

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You agree with the quote above from the Apostle's Creed, but I do not see how that differs from the Trinity beliefs. Maybe you can explain or point me to an earlier post where you explained?
I'm sorry, I just assumed everyone is aware of trinitarian theory, and how it differs from the simple truth stated in the Scriptures, and then fairly well summarized in the Apostle's Creed.

Perhaps the quickest way to sum up that difference is, to point out the Apostle's Creed, very much like the New Testament, does NOT claim Jesus and the Father are "co-equal, co-eternal, and con-substantial".
Here is a partial quote of the Nicene Creed, crafted about 2 centuries later than the Apostle's Creed;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

Here is a modern website that attempts to reword the definition into more contemporary language;

We believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience.
God in Three Persons: A Doctrine We Barely Understand
 
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Dartman

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@Dartman , do you believe in Arianism? Here is something I read about the Apostles Creed from Wikipedia:

Apostles' Creed - Wikipedia
No. The two positions dominating the debate in the Council of Nicaea were both in error.

I actually believe in the "Jesus" condemned by the Nicene Creed, as underlined below;
[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'— they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]
 
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Dartman

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Dartman said:
Jesus made it clear, he and the other Jews "know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews". John 4:22

he also said if you knew the gift of god you would have asked me and I would have given you Living Water

What was this Living Water that the Son would give to those who asked Him?
Again, you IGNORE the Scriptures that disagree with your theory, and attempt to distract from your error, by changing the subject. If I demand that you deal with the original post, you whine that I ignore your questions. Your methods are transparent, and render your posts ineffective.

Your question isn't even a difficult one! The living water Jesus offered is the words/logos his God commanded him to teach.
 
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Dartman

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How was God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself?
In that Jesus was given God's words.
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
 
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Dartman

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According to the Spirit, Was He declared the holy son of God before or after He was baptized?
You have twisted the question.
The question is, when was Jesus anointed of the holy spirit, and the answer is, AFTER his baptism.
The 2nd question is, when was Jesus "sent into the world", and the answer is, AFTER he was anointed with Jehovah's spirit!

Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
 
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Dartman

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Here's what John says about that:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
You have quoted the typical trinitarian biased distortion of this text.
The logos is capitalized, ONLY because of trinitarian bias. The Greek pronoun is rendered masculine ONLY because of trinitarian bias.

amariselle said:
At Jesus' baptism Who He is (Who He always was and always will be) was revealed. He was not made anything in that moment, He has always been God)
Your assertion is certainly popular in apostate church doctrine, but it doesn't resemble ANY "Jesus" EVER actually preached in the Scriptures!!
 
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amariselle

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You have quoted the typical trinitarian biased distortion of this text.
The logos is capitalized, ONLY because of trinitarian bias. The Greek pronoun is rendered masculine ONLY because of trinitarian bias.

I quoted the King James, but I am not KJV only. However, those verses clearly say that not only was the "logos" (the Word) with God in the beginning, but that He was God from the beginning.

If you have a problem with what is written in those verses, your problem is with Scripture, not with me.

Your assertion is certainly popular in apostate church doctrine, but is doesn't resemble ANY "Jesus" EVER actually preached in the Scriptures!!

Again, if you don't believe Jesus is actually God, your problem is with Scripture, not with me.

(Also odd that you would even suggest I am "apostate" for believing that Jesus is God)
 
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amariselle

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You have twisted the question.
The question is, when was Jesus anointed of the holy spirit, and the answer is, AFTER his baptism.
The 2nd question is, when was Jesus "sent into the world", and the answer is, AFTER he was anointed with Jehovah's spirit!

Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

When did Jesus start being God?

He didn't, He always was God, and He always will be.
 
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Dartman

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I quoted the King James, but I am not KJV only. However, those verses clearly say that not only was the "logos" (the Word) with God in the beginning, but that He was God from the beginning.

If you have a problem with what is written in those verses, your problem is with Scripture, not with me.
I have not problem with the Scripture, I have problems with the choices made by the translators.
The Scriptures state that God's words were in the beginning, and were with God, and ARE God. If you don't like the way John uses LOGOS in his writing, that's your problem.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings (LOGOS): and the word (LOGOS) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
amariselle said:
Again, if you don't believe Jesus is actually God, your problem is with Scripture, not with me.
That would only be true if you could provide a Scripture that states Jesus is actually God. We both know you can't.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. The exact representation of God's being and the full radiance of God's glory

For it pleased God that in Him the fullness of the godhead might dwell
I just don't see why a trinitarian perspective is needed as well though is another thing. Why must father, Spieit, and son be separate if they are simply manifestations of one being. I also find it interesting how for some reason God was simply manifesting himself as a cloud or fire or this or that in the OT... but in the NT boom you have the trinity it just doesn't fit and this is just logic here.
 
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amariselle

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I have not problem with the Scripture, I have problems with the choices made by the translators.
The Scriptures state that God's words were in the beginning, and were with God, and ARE God. If you don't like the way John uses LOGOS in his writing, that's your problem.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings (LOGOS): and the word (LOGOS) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
That would only be true if you could provide a Scripture that states Jesus is actually God. We both know you can't.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”

And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. - John 1:1-18

The "logos" (Word) that was with God from the beginning and is God, became flesh and dwelt among us. This is of course referring to the incarnation of Jesus Christ, and unequivocally and beyond any shadow of a doubt confirms that Jesus is God.

So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” - Matthew 1:22-23

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” - John 8:57-58

Everyone who has read Scripture understands what Jesus saying "I AM" means. (Which is why they tried to stone Him when He said those words)

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” - Exodus 3:14
 
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Dartman

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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”

And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. - John 1:1-18

The "logos" (Word) that was with God from the beginning and is God, became flesh and dwelt among us. This is of course referring to the incarnation of Jesus Christ, and unequivocally and beyond any shadow of a doubt confirms that Jesus is God.

So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” - Matthew 1:22-23

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” - John 8:57-58

Everyone who has read Scripture understands what Jesus saying "I AM" means. (Which is why they tried to stone Him when He said those words)

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” - Exodus 3:14
Yep, been there, done that, doesn't work.
John was talking about God's words. God's words were fulfilled as a flesh and blood descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Judah and David, through Mary.

The tired, trinitarian brainwashing of these texts is astounding ONLY in that so MANY people swallow it!
There is no such thing as "incarnation".
The trinitarian PRETENSE that Jesus is QUOTING from Ex 3, is pure ignorance of Hebrew, and Greek.
 
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Dartman

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Right, because He is God, always has been and always will be.
Says no verse ever.
arariselle said:
God has no beginning and no end.
Of course. Jesus isn't God. Jesus 'came forth UNTO God" in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2)
Again, amariselle, you trotting out the tired brainwashing of the last 1,700 years of trinitarian apostasy, does NOT satisfy Paul's simple instruction that the believer cling to the "Jesus" actually PREACHED by the apostles
2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached ....

Let me make this perfectly clear, UNTIL you provide at least ONE TEXT, that records an apostle PREACHING to an audience the trinity .... you have utterly failed to overcome Paul's challenge!

The "Jesus" actually PREACHED in the Scriptures, to EVERY SINGLE AUDIENCE, is NOT the trinitarian "Jesus".
 
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Dartman

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Acts 2:29-36

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the holy spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Acts 3:12-26

12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The "Jesus" Peter preached is NOT GOD!!
The "Jesus" Peter preached IS "of the seed of David", and Abraham's seed!
The "Jesus" Peter preached was MADE Lord and Christ by his God!
The "Jesus" Peter preached is a BROTHER of the children of Israel, he IS a Jew!
The "Jesus" Peter preached is a "prophet like unto" Moses.
The "Jesus" Peter preached was resurrected by his God.
The "Jesus" Peter preached was Exalted by his God, "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".
The "Jesus" Peter preached was glorified by his God, "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".
 
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Dartman

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Acts 5:29-32 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree. 31 Him did God exalt with His right hand (to be) a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these things; and the holy spirit, which God hath given to them that obey Him.

Acts 10:34-43 And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 but in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to Him.
36 The word which He sent unto the children of Israel, preaching good tidings of peace by Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all.) 37 that saying ye yourselves know, which was published throughout all Judaea, beginning from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 (even) Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the holy spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree. 40 Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest, 41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, (even) to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.


The "Jesus" Peter preached is NOT GOD!!
The "Jesus" Peter preached was EXALTED to be a Prince and a Savior, by "the God of our Fathers"!
The "Jesus" Peter preached was resurrected by his God on the third day.
The "Jesus" Peter preached was ORDAINED by his God to be the judge of the living and the dead.
The "Jesus" Peter preached was anointed by his God with the holy spirit and with power.
 
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Dartman

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Acts 13:16-38 And Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken: 17 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they sojourned in the land of Egypt, and with a high arm led he them forth out of it. 18 And for about the time of forty years as a nursing-father bare he them in the wilderness. 19 And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave (them) their land for an inheritance, for about four hundred and fifty years: 20 and after these things he gave (them) judges until Samuel the prophet. 21 And afterward they asked for a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for the space of forty years. 22 And when He had removed him, He raised up David to be their king; to whom also He bare witness and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My heart, who shall do all My will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to promise brought unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus; 24 when John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John was fulfilling his course, he said, What suppose ye that I am? I am not he. But behold, there cometh one after me the shoes of whose feet I am not worthy to unloose. 26 Brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and those among you that fear God, to us is the word of this salvation sent forth. 27 For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled (them) by condemning (him). 28 And though they found no cause of death (in him), yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain. 29 And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we bring you good tidings of the promise made unto the fathers, 33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that He raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that He raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, He hath spoken on this wise, I will give you the holy and sure (blessings) of David. 35 Because He saith also in another (psalm), Thou wilt not give Thy Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had in his own generation served the counsel of God, fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 but he whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, brethren, that through this man is proclaimed unto you remission of sins:

Acts 17:22-31 And Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus, and said, Ye men of Athens, in all things, I perceive that ye are very religious. 23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. What therefore ye worship in ignorance, this I set forth unto you. 24 The God that made the world and all things therein, He, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 neither is He served by men's hands, as though He needed anything, seeing He Himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 and He made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined (their) appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us: 28 for in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain even of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring. 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now He commandeth men that they should all everywhere repent: 31 inasmuch as He hath appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised him from the dead.


The "Jesus" Paul preached was NOT God!
The "God" that Paul preached "raised up Jesus".
The "God of this people Israel", that Paul preached promised David that the "Jesus" Paul preached would be of David's seed!!
The "Jesus" Paul preached is "the MAN" through whom remission of sins is proclaimed.
The "Jesus" Paul preached is "the MAN" that God ordained to be the judge of the world.
NO WHERE is the "Jesus" of the trinity preached.
 
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

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Plural in Hebrew doesn't always mean multiple. It also indicates majesty. So, attempting to FORCE trinitarian theories onto the OT, which is RIGIDLY monotheistic, merely because of this flimsy "evidence", is NOT persuasive!!
The same thing is true regarding the NT. The NT consistently references the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob", "the God of our Fathers", "the God of Israel", "The God of our Lord Jesus Christ". Any attempt to ignore the identity of the New Testament God being clearly defined by God in the Old Testament, is a deliberate attempt to twist Scripture.

Do you have ANY idea how silly, and desperate this kind of "evidence" appears, when it goes against the clear, and simple statements of Scripture??

If you don't believe in trinity in OT you have problem with Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22 simply remove these verse from bible and you are ready to go .

Also you might not like Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1 so just ignore their existance .
 
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