WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE BAN ON TRANSGENDERS IN THE ARMY?

[seeking.IAM]

Gender Dysphoria is a well-documented medical issue recognized by the AMA, both APAs, WHO, and every other credible medical organization.

Yes, Gender Dysphoria is a diagnosable psychological disorder, but medical solution is not classified as being "medically necessary" but as "elective" by most (majority) of insurance carriers. Medical necessity = payment. Elective = non-payment.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Gender Dysphoria is a well-documented medical issue recognized by the AMA, both APAs, WHO, and every other credible medical organization.

Well credible places also say God isn't real. The flood never happened. Jesus never existed. Miracles never happen. And of course we came from the Big Bang.

And of course again I point out "credible medical sources" are not the bible. Granted I do believe the gender thing is some sort of mental issue. But changing ones genitalia doesn't somehow make the problem go away. It just reenforces the mental issue. That and changes ones genitals isn't actually needed to be a different sex. They can just pretend they are one as always. Though technically they can't be a different sex since God only created two.

 

[Old Lioness]

There is no ban. The President made a tweet about it, however, the military does not see tweeting as official procedure so they're not going to change anything unless Trump goes through the proper methods to change policy.
Joint Chiefs: No change in transgender policy until Trump sends Pentagon direction

hmmmmm interesting...ok I will then keep an eye on this...thank you for your input

 

[Old Lioness]

Well credible places also say God isn't real. The flood never happened. Jesus never existed. Miracles never happen. And of course we came from the Big Bang.

And of course again I point out "credible medical sources" are not the bible. Granted I do believe the gender thing is some sort of mental issue. But changing ones genitalia doesn't somehow make the problem go away. It just reenforces the mental issue. That and changes ones genitals isn't actually needed to be a different sex. They can just pretend they are one as always. Though technically they can't be a different sex since God only created two.

God does NOT make mistakes and doing this slaps Him in His face.

 

[Old Lioness]

Um, well our view is based on God. So our view makes sense. Any other view about the issue is wrong because its not based on what God says.


But erectile dysfunction is an actual medical issue. Where as not having the other sexes genital is not a medical issue.


Hmm, given your response I'd say maybe the hate is coming from the other side. That and throwing in everyone who voted for Trump as being hateful and bigoted. That aside are you saying christians are also bigoted? Seems impossible given what the bible says.

Righteous judgment is different from those that judge due to looks.
THe Military is like any office that get's money from the taxpayers. they misspend it on what 'makes' the fat cat's happy." and the misspending is such a shame...but I believe that this will change once we get into a war...which will happen.

 

[Old Lioness]

I thought the point of the "Junk Drawer" was to have a place where people didn't have these sort of discussions?
tulc(is just wondering)

The Junk drawer is exactly that..to talk about anything that is pertinent to these days..and to give opinions on what is happening today. If you want to keep your head in the sand then you are more than free to do so. I, on the other hand, would like to talk about political happenings be it fair or controversial. There is nothing wrong with this.

 

[tulc]

The Junk drawer is exactly that..to talk about anything that is pertinent to these days..and to give opinions on what is happening today. If you want to keep your head in the sand then you are more than free to do so. I, on the other hand, would like to talk about political happenings be it fair or controversial. There is nothing wrong with this.

Well see here's the thing we have several places here on CF where we discss these things already, in fact those are the places I hang out most of the time. I was under the impression this fora was for lighter less confrontation discussions? That was my point. I was just trying to keep the fora for what it was for is all.
tulc(isn't looking for a fight here)

 

[Old Lioness]

Billions ? Got a source for that ?

A number of transgenders that are half baked so to speak are coming into the military just for the operation and medical treatments by the 1000's each treatment cost the taxpayer close to 25,000 or more to complete..
The military has not historically covered gender-transition surgeries, though President Barack Obama did announce plans for it to begin doing so. That cost would be between $2.4 million and $8.4 million annually for transition-related costs, according to a RAND analysis commissioned by the Department of Defense. The group estimated there are between 1,320 and 6,630 active-duty transgender servicepeople currently. A study in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2015 put the number at 12,800 people and $4.2 million to $5.6 million, concluding that “doctors agree that such care is medically necessary.”

This would be a military health-care spending increase of 0.04 to 0.13 percent. Even in the most extreme case, it is one tenth of the annual $84 million that the military spends on medication for erectile dysfunction.

The relative costs drops into the ten-thousandths of a percent when taken in context of the Department of Defense budget as a whole, expected to be proposed at $640 billion. The F-35 cost $1.5 trillion. Military bands cost taxpayers $437 million.
What medical costs and disruption do transgender individuals cause in the military? originally appeared on Quora: the place to gain and share knowledge, empowering people to learn from others and better understand the world.

Answer by Lexa Michaelides on Quora:

Tl;dr: $8.4 million out of an estimated Defense Department expense of $50 billion. That’s approximately 0.017%.

The study with all of this information is here: Assessing the Implications of Allowing Transgender Personnel to Serve Openly. The full study is available (112 pages that I will try to read sometime this week) but I will distill the key findings here.

There are an estimated 1,320 to 6,630 trans service members in the active component out of approximately 1.3 million. For those of you who like percentages, that’s less than 0.51%.
Based on data from surveys and private health insurance claims, less than 2% of those trans service members will seek medical transition which has the potential to disrupt their ability to serve.
Using private health insurance claims, the cost of gender-related care for trans service members would be $2.4 to $8.4 million annually, out of Defense Department healthcare expenditures of $49.3 billion in 2014 [1].
In terms of actual costs of gender transition, there’s a reason that there’s no tidy number where you can say “It costs $20,000 and that’s that”. Transition care is complicated and may or may not consist of counselling, hormones, and various surgeries. Here’s one provider who gives a very clear breakdown of what various procedures cost in terms of surgery:

MtF Price List - The Transgender Center
FtM Price List - The Transgender Center
Some of the things mentioned on those list are unlikely to be covered for trans people because they wouldn’t be covered for cis people, such as liposuction or a facelift. So … if we assume that a typical transition might involve bottom surgery and top surgery, you might end up with a cost of approximately $20,000 - $30,000.

 

[Old Lioness]

Well see here's the thing we have several places here on CF where we discss these things already, in fact those are the places I hang out most of the time. I was under the impression this fora was for lighter less confrontation discussions? That was my point. I was just trying to keep the fora for what it was for is all.
tulc(isn't looking for a fight here)

Unfortunately, Opinions are sadly thought of as "fighting' which it isn't...its opinions and from the looks of a number of replies to this thread there are many people that have opinions. and this "junk drawer is a lovely catch all for threads that can't be found in "OTHER PLACES." and it is a convenient place to be able to just go to and see 'what's up' and enjoy possible odd n sod controversial threads that one can throw out thoughts about. I find that if I have a thought I can come here and throw out a political or religious tidbit, and see what others say about it. no different than face book I think...

 

[tulc]

Unfortunately, Opinions are sadly thought of as "fighting' which it isn't...its opinions and from the looks of a number of replies to this thread there are many people that have opinions.

And like noses. we all can pick our own!

and this "junk drawer is a lovely catch all for threads that can't be found in "OTHER PLACES." and it is a convenient place to be able to just go to and see 'what's up' and enjoy possible odd n sod controversial threads that one can throw out thoughts about. I find that if I have a thought I can come here and throw out a political or religious tidbit, and see what others say about it. no different than face book I think...

Not a problem, sometimes things get...touchy so don't be surprised if this get moved to another section. Meanwhile: I'm hoping you're enjoying your time here on CF!
tulc(has been doing so for quite a while now!)

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

God does NOT make mistakes and doing this slaps Him in His face.

So your saying God made LGBT people to be unsure of what they are?

 

[football5680]

The mentally ill shouldn't be in the army so I would have no problem with it.

 

[SBC]

If someone is willing to serve in the military and put their lives at risk for you and me I don't really care about their gender. The expense is extremely minimal -- far, far less then the military spends on Viagra -- it shouldn't be even under consideration.

This is just Trump coming up with some BS to distract people from what is really going on with him and his people. It's a tweet, not an order, and he is just trying to shore up his bigoted, hateful base.

How is someone laying on a surgeons table having an elective surgery putting their life at risk for you?
Seems your measure of bigotry and hate is your own intolerance for others to have a different view than you. Pretty sad.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

So your saying God made LGBT people to be unsure of what they are?

God forms the body of ALL people.
People decide and corrupt what God has made.
That is "their" choice, "their" error, Not Gods.

Not a secret:
Many are willing to corrupt what God has made.
Many are willing to find "their way" to have others financially burdened with "their wants".
Many are willing to support others corruption.

Not a secret:

John 13

1. [32] If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

Rom 1

[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

One being compelled to morally or financially support what stands against God is wrong!

God Bless,
SBC

 

[archer75]

One being compelled to morally or financially support what stands against God is wrong!

God Bless,
SBC

How about if they agree either not to have any medical stuff done for their transness or they agree they have to pay for it out of pocket? Then is it okay if they serve?

 

[SBC]

How about if they agree either not to have any medical stuff done for their transness or they agree they have to pay for it out of pocket? Then is it okay if they serve?

The medical stuff is just one aspect. How about the he/she facilities, sleeping and bathing? How about others who want to serve but do not qualify? The deaf, the blind, the mentally ill, murderers, etc. ? Should special concessions be made for them?

And seriously, shouldn't our military be invested in mentally stable and vested personal?
Is the US in such dire need to increase the military that foreigners and misfits need be solicited?
When was the last time any US state was attacked by a foreign military?
WWII ? Ending 72 years ago?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Pappy&Me]

Gender Dysphoria is a well-documented medical issue recognized by the AMA, both APAs, WHO, and every other credible medical organization.

Then if they are sick they should not be allowed in the military to begin with. Whats next the blind or heart patient? Most have to pass a physical before allowed in.

 

[archer75]

The medical stuff is just one aspect. How about the he/she facilities, sleeping and bathing? How about others who want to serve but do not qualify? The deaf, the blind, the mentally ill, murderers, etc. ? Should special concessions be made for them?

I asked just because the "expensive surgery" is the thing I keep hearing bandied about, including here. Now it seems there are other reasons.

Trans people do qualify, or at least, some do. The question isn't about letting in those who don't qualify, it's about banning some who do.

And I really do not think this can be compared allowing the deaf and blind to serve.

You seem to think I'm pushing for trans people to serve. I'm not. I just asked whether it would be okay if this one supposed problem everyone was talking about was taken away. Apparently not. I just wanted to understand the position.

Are gay men and women still okay, or no?

 

[SBC]

I asked just because the "expensive surgery" is the thing I keep hearing bandied about, including here. Now it seems there are other reasons.

Trans people do qualify, or at least, some do. The question isn't about letting in those who don't qualify, it's about banning some who do.

And I really do not think this can be compared allowing the deaf and blind to serve.

You seem to think I'm pushing for trans people to serve. I'm not. I just asked whether it would be okay if this one supposed problem everyone was talking about was taken away. Apparently not. I just wanted to understand the position.

Just sayin- introducing an whole other aspect always requires an increase in the military budget. It did when women joined in with the men and when foreigners are include.

Are gay men and women still okay, or no?

They have issues. I'll leave it at that.

God Bless,
SBC