The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

[-V-]

Grace allows freedom to obey ... Only grace allows for true obedience.

There is no freedom if we have no choice. Obedience is meaningless if there's no other option. According to Calvinism, we are "compelled", and God is "irresistible". Such conditions preclude freedom, preclude meaningful obedience.

 

[Hammster]

There is no freedom if we have no choice. Obedience is meaningless if there's no other option. According to Calvinism, we are "compelled", and God is "irresistible". Such conditions preclude freedom, preclude meaningful obedience.

If that's a tenet of Reformed Theology, you should be able to find something in an OP link to support it.

Remember, no straw men.

 

[EmSw]

If that's a tenet of Reformed Theology, you should be able to find something in an OP link to support it.

Remember, no straw men.

If that's a tenet of Reformed theology, you should be able to tell us.

 

[Hammster]

If that's a tenet of Reformed theology, you should be able to tell us.

There's is an OP. There's a recent mod hat to keep it on track. So please do so.

The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

 

[EmSw]

There's is an OP. There's a recent mod hat to keep it on track. So please do so.

The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

Your post is not on track with the OP. Why not practice what you preach?

 

[Hammster]

Your post is not on track with the OP. Why not practice what you preach?

Please stop derailing. Either post in line with the OP, or post elsewhere.

 

[Hammster]

Anyway, back to the OP.

The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There is no freedom if we have no choice. Obedience is meaningless if there's no other option. According to Calvinism, we are "compelled", and God is "irresistible". Such conditions preclude freedom, preclude meaningful obedience.

Straw man.

If you oppose Reformed Theology, please state a actual doctrine (sources in the OP) held by those you oppose, and make a sound argument against it.

These instructions are not difficult to follow, so I don't understand the apparent inability to do so.

 

[-V-]

If that's a tenet of Reformed Theology, you should be able to find something in an OP link to support it.

Remember, no straw men.

Straw man.

If you oppose Reformed Theology, please state a actual doctrine (sources in the OP) held by those you oppose, and make a sound argument against it.

These instructions are not difficult to follow, so I don't understand the apparent inability to do so.

I didn't make any straw men. Jimmyjimmy claimed we have freedom and can give true obedience. If he can make a claim here in support of Reformed Theology, I have every right to refute it here. He opened the door with his claim.

 

[Hammster]

I didn't make any straw men. Jimmyjimmy claimed we have freedom and can give true obedience. If he can make a claim here in support of Reformed Theology, I have every right to refute it here. He opened the door with his claim.

Then you can refute it by not offering a straw man.

You stated "According to Calvinism, we are "compelled", and God is "irresistible"."

If that's true, please show from teachings of Calvinism that this is true.

 

[sdowney717]

I didn't make any straw men. Jimmyjimmy claimed we have freedom and can give true obedience. If he can make a claim here in support of Reformed Theology, I have every right to refute it here. He opened the door with his claim.

The freedom is freedom from sin which leads to death. When Christ makes you free, (makes as in born of God), you are set free from sin and death, no longer a slave of sin. You are become a slave of God.
This you willingly embrace because your whole nature God has changed.
God is a benevolent tyrant to His children, tyrant because God absolutely will not tolerate disobedience without you being corrected. Yes your sins are forgiven,meaning your not going to die in hell, but God scourges and disciplines everyone He receives. And all that is you God will test in fire and see what emerges at the Day of judgement.
Romans 6:22

• New King James Version
  But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

 

[-V-]

Then you can refute it by not offering a straw man.

You stated "According to Calvinism, we are "compelled", and God is "irresistible"."

If that's true, please show from teachings of Calvinism that this is true.

Oh, so "irresistible grace" is not a part of Calvinism anymore?

 

[-V-]

The freedom is freedom from sin which leads to death. When Christ makes you free, (makes as in born of God), you are set free from sin and death, no longer a slave of sin. You are become a slave of God.
This you willingly embrace because your whole nature God has changed.
God is a benevolent tyrant to His children, tyrant because God absolutely will not tolerate disobedience without you being corrected. Yes your sins are forgiven,meaning your not going to die in hell, but God scourges and disciplines everyone He receives. And all that is you God will test in fire and see what emerges at the Day of judgement.
Romans 6:22

• New King James Version
  But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

It's not "freedom" nor is it done "willingly" if it is compelled and irresistible.

 

[Hammster]

Oh, so "irresistible grace" is not a part of Calvinism anymore?

Please follow the protocol in the OP. Or start your own thread. Either one is fine.

 

[EmSw]

Then you can refute it by not offering a straw man.

You stated "According to Calvinism, we are "compelled", and God is "irresistible"."

If that's true, please show from teachings of Calvinism that this is true.

Then tell us from your own lips Hammster. Do Calvinists say men are compelled and grace is irresistible? You show us the true teachings of Calvinism.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The freedom is freedom from sin which leads to death. When Christ makes you free, (makes as in born of God), you are set free from sin and death, no longer a slave of sin. You are become a slave of God.
This you willingly embrace because your whole nature God has changed.
God is a benevolent tyrant to His children, tyrant because God absolutely will not tolerate disobedience without you being corrected. Yes your sins are forgiven,meaning your not going to die in hell, but God scourges and disciplines everyone He receives. And all that is you God will test in fire and see what emerges at the Day of judgement.
Romans 6:22

• New King James Version
  But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Yes. Well said. This was my point regarding the freedom of the Christian.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes. Well said. This was my point regarding the freedom of the Christian.

I love it when brothers can agree in unity.

 

[Hammster]

Then tell us from your own lips Hammster. Do Calvinists say men are compelled and grace is irresistible? You show us the true teachings of Calvinism.

Please follow the OP. Thanks.

Or start your own thread.

 

[-V-]

Please follow the protocol in the OP. Or start your own thread. Either one is fine.

Amazing how the Calvinists can't even concede their own publicly well-known beliefs. It's like a Roman Catholic refusing to acknowledge the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary until we produce an official church document stating it.

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

THIRD AND FOURTH HEAD: ARTICLE 14. Faith is therefore to be considered as the gift of God, not on account of its being offered by God to man, to be accepted or rejected at his pleasure, but because it is in reality conferred upon him, breathed and infused into him; nor even because God bestows the power or ability to believe, and then expects that man should by the exercise of his own free will consent to the terms of salvation and actually believe in Christ, but because He who works in man both to will and to work, and indeed all things in all, produces both the will to believe and the act of believing also.

We don't accept or reject faith, we don't give our free will consent. Therefore, there is no "freedom", there is no "true obedience", because we aren't ever given a choice.

 

[Hammster]

Amazing how the Calvinists can't even concede their own publicly well-known beliefs. It's like a Roman Catholic refusing to acknowledge the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary until we produce an official church document stating it.

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

We don't accept or reject faith, we don't give our free will consent. Therefore, there is no "freedom", there is no "true obedience", because we aren't ever given a choice.

You'll have to explain how it's not true obedience? If God changes our heart and we are now free from sin, how is obedience not free?