Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

[klutedavid]

"sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- that is clear
"These things I write to you that you sin NOT.." 1 John 2:1 - that is clear

And apparently on this thread we have agreement that Saturday is the Sabbath as found in the Bible in places like Exodus 20:11 and in the Gospels and in Acts 18:4 "Every Sabbath"

Hello Bob.

This may be a generalization.

on this thread we have agreement that Saturday is the Sabbath

The Sabbath was a floating day in the Old Testament, the day was determined by the phases of the moon. To say that Saturday is always the Sabbath, is a catastrophic failure to understand the Old Testament designation of the day.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

This may be a generalization.

The Sabbath was a floating day in the Old Testament,

Just not in real life.

In Real life "tomorrow is the Sabbath" - Exodus 16.

In real life Exodus 20:8-11 says nothing at all about "a floating 7th day of the week" -- and we all know it.

You are going against ever more obvious Bible landmarks. In this case all Jews agree that Saturday is the 7th day of the week and all Christians that Sunday is the first day of the week.

As you rollback each one of these obvious and confirmed landmarks --- do you find yourself left with every increasing levels of confusion??

the day was determined by the phases of the moon.

Totally false The days of the week remain unchanged and both Jews and Christians know it.

How does it help you to go into ever greater states of confusion?

To say that Saturday is always the Sabbath, is a catastrophic failure to understand the Old Testament designation of the day.

You "only quote you" for such fiction

If your argument is that some weeks Saturday is the Sabbath and some weeks it is not - then of course you are free to take ownership of that tiny island. But I don't think you have the Bible for your text in that case.

 

[klutedavid]

Just not in real life.

In Real life "tomorrow is the Sabbath" - Exodus 16.

In real life Exodus 20:8-11 says nothing at all about "a floating 7th day of the week" -- and we all know it.

You are going against ever more obvious Bible landmarks. In this case all Jews agree that Saturday is the 7th day of the week and all Christians that Sunday is the first day of the week.

As you rollback each one of these obvious and confirmed landmarks --- do you find yourself left with every increasing levels of confusion??



Totally false The days of the week remain unchanged and both Jews and Christians know it.

How does it help you to go into ever greater states of confusion?



You "only quote you" for such fiction

If your argument is that some weeks Saturday is the Sabbath and some weeks it is not - then of course you are free to take ownership of that tiny island. But I don't think you have the Bible for your text in that case.

Hello Bob.

Many people have recognized the truth that the Scriptural months were originally determined by the moon and did not consist of 31, 30, or 28 day arbitrary months. However, most have failed to recognize that the same holds true for the week. It too does not consist of an arbitrary count of 1-7, but is linked to the phases of the moon. All we ask you to do is read the presentation given in this book, seeing that the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. The gate of the inner court of YHWH which looked toward the east was to be (and will be in the future) shut during the six workdays of the week, but this same gate was to be open on the day of the Sabbath and the day of the New Moon. Ezekiel 46:1,3 Thus saith the Master YHWH; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the Sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the New Moon it shall be opened. Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before YHWH in the Sabbaths and in the New Moons. (ministersnewcovenant.org)

Not that this has anything to do with what I believe.

Where is the New Moon in your calculations?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.
Many people have recognized the truth that the Scriptural months were originally determined by the moon and did not consist of 31, 30, or 28 day arbitrary months.

True - everyone recognizes that - just as we have Gregorian Calendar months that contain specific days.. but they do not change the days of the week.

In the bible we have "This shall be the first day of the month for you" speaking of some event in Sun or moon each year -- but we do NOT have "this shall be the first day of the week for you" speaking of some event in sun or moon. RATHER we have "THE 7th day" in Genesis 2 and Ex 20:11 and we have "tomorrow IS the Sabbath" in Exodus 16. No annual event associated at ll.

This is Calendar 101 in the first grade as both you and I are aware.

Not that this has anything to do with what I believe.

So then red herring??

 

[klutedavid]

True - everyone recognizes that - just as we have Gregorian Calendar months that contain specific days.. but they do not change the days of the week.

This is Calendar 101 in the first grade as both you and I are aware.



So then red herring??

Hello Bob.

The Hebrew calendar is not the Gregorian calendar.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

The Hebrew calendar is not the Gregorian calendar.

Neither the Jews nor the Christians had a model for changing days of the week - every month. And we all know it. This is basic Calendar 101.

The Jews to this very day know that the seventh day is Saturday -- as we all know.

Christians to this very day know that Sunday is week-day-1 -- as we all know.

So then your efforts to rollback the easy and obvious -- only lead to deeper confusion in the model you are using.

And the fact that it is not simply Adventists "like me" that point out your mistake - but even your own pro-Sunday scholars point to your mistake on the TEN commandments and even the JEWs point to your mistake on their 7th day.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!!

 

[klutedavid]

Neither the Jews nor the Christians had a model for changing days of the week - every month. And we all know it. This is basic Calendar 101.

The Jews to this very day know that the seventh day is Saturday -- as we all know.

Christians to this very day know that Sunday is week-day-1 -- as we all know.

So then your efforts to rollback the easy and obvious -- only lead to deeper confusion in the model you are using.

And the fact that it is not simply Adventists "like me" that point out your mistake - but even your own pro-Sunday scholars point to your mistake on the TEN commandments and even the JEWs point to your mistake on their 7th day.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!!

Hello Bob.

The Jewish calendar is a calendar based on lunar phases.

The Gregorian calendar is based on solar phases.

They are not the same.

 

[klutedavid]

Neither the Jews nor the Christians had a model for changing days of the week - every month. And we all know it. This is basic Calendar 101.

The Jews to this very day know that the seventh day is Saturday -- as we all know.

Christians to this very day know that Sunday is week-day-1 -- as we all know.

So then your efforts to rollback the easy and obvious -- only lead to deeper confusion in the model you are using.

And the fact that it is not simply Adventists "like me" that point out your mistake - but even your own pro-Sunday scholars point to your mistake on the TEN commandments and even the JEWs point to your mistake on their 7th day.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!!

Hello Bob.

Are you saying that a lunar and a solar calendar are the same?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Are you saying that a lunar and a solar calendar are the same?

I am saying that neither the Jews NOR Christians are "reseting the days of the week every month" - as we all know.

Jews continue to worship on Saturday - the Sabbath - as well as Christians who know about the TEN Commandments and the Bible Sabbath.

And Christians continue to point to Sunday - week-day-1 the day on which Christ was raised.

This had nothing at all to do with Lunar Calendars - since the months do not determine the days of the week - for either Jews or Christians.

 

[klutedavid]

I am saying that neither the Jews NOR Christians are "reseting the days of the week every month" - as we all know.

Jews continue to worship on Sabbath - as well as Christians who know about the TEN Commandments and the Bible Sabbath.

And Christians continue to point to Sunday - week-day-1 the day on which Christ was raised.

This had nothing at all to do with Lunar Calendars - since the months do not determine the days of the week - for either Jews or Christians.

Hello Bob.

We are not talking about a reset of any calendar.

I asked you whether you believe that a lunar calendar is different to a solar calendar?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

The Jewish calendar is a calendar based on lunar phases.

True of their months. Not true of their days of the week.

The Gregorian calendar is based on solar phases.

They are not the same.

Gregorian calendar months are fixed except for leap years. And when we add days to a month for a leap year - we do not change the days of the week.

As we both know

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

We are not talking about a reset of any calendar.

I asked you whether you believe that a lunar calendar is different to a solar calendar?

I did not use the term "reset of a calendar" -- that is something you just "inserted" in your post. Not sure why.

I point out that NEITHER system resets the days of the week each month.

I used the term "reset the week" - and point out that we do not reset the days of the week each month ... nor do the Jews. They don't for example go like this sun-mon-tues-SUN(because first of the month has happened) ... no such thing for Jews... no such thing for Gregorian calendar.

We do not reset the days of the week each month. Nor do the Jews.

this again - is the obvious part we all agree on.

 

[klutedavid]

I did not use the term "reset of a calendar" -- that is something you just "inserted" in your post. Not sure why.

I point out that NEITHER system resets the days of the week each month.

I used the term "reset the week" - and point out that we do not reset the days of the week each month ... nor do the Jews. They don't for example go like this sun-mon-tues-SUN(because first of the month has happened) ... no such thing for Jews... no such thing for Gregorian calendar.

We do not reset the days of the week each month. Nor do the Jews.

this again - is the obvious part we all agree on.

Hello Bob.

For the third time, is a lunar calendar different to a solar calendar?

You seem to think a lunar year is identical to a solar year?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

For the third time, is a lunar calendar different to a solar calendar?

You seem to think a lunar year is identical to a solar year?

For the fifth time - the Jews do not reset their days-of-week every month nor do we using the Gregorian Calendar.

It does not matter that they use a Lunar calendar and we do not (Gregorian is solar) -- they don't reset their week days and neither do we. So no matter that the months calculate differently the cycle for days of the week don't change in either system based on what month it is.

Do you have some point in your "floating week-day-7" argument that survives this irrefutable detail??

 

[klutedavid]

I did not use the term "reset of a calendar" -- that is something you just "inserted" in your post. Not sure why.

I point out that NEITHER system resets the days of the week each month.

I used the term "reset the week" - and point out that we do not reset the days of the week each month ... nor do the Jews. They don't for example go like this sun-mon-tues-SUN(because first of the month has happened) ... no such thing for Jews... no such thing for Gregorian calendar.

We do not reset the days of the week each month. Nor do the Jews.

this again - is the obvious part we all agree on.

Hello Bob.

The solar calendar is a measure of the earth's rotation around the sun. A year on the solar calendar has an average of 365.24 days. The lunar calendar is a measure of the moon's rotation around the earth. A year on the lunar calendar has 354 days.

Bible details matter.

There is at least a difference of one day every year, between a lunar year and a solar year.

So if you live your life according to the new moon, lunar calendar, you will be spot on the true Sabbath every week. If you follow the evil Gregorian calendar, you will always be a day out from the true Sabbath.

These details do matter Bob, you were told what calendar to follow.

 

[klutedavid]

For the fifth time - the Jews do not reset their days-of-week every month nor do we using the Gregorian Calendar.

It does not matter that they use a Lunar calendar and we do not -- they don't reset their week days and neither do we.

Do you have some point in your "floating week-day-7" argument that survives this irrefutable detail??

Hello Bob.

You sun worshiper, what do you do with the extra day each year?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

The solar calendar is a measure of the earth's rotation around the sun. A year on the solar calendar has an average of 365.24 days. The lunar calendar is a measure of the moon's rotation around the earth. A year on the lunar calendar has 354 days.

True but that has nothing at all to do with the 7 day cycle in either Calendar system

Calendar details matter.

There is at least a difference of one day every year, between a lunar year and a solar year.

Which has nothing at all to do with the weekly cycle.

So if you live your life according to the new moon, lunar calendar, you will be spot on the true Sabbath every week.

has nothing at all to do with the weekly cycle as even the Jews know. You keep making that leap without any calendar support for it at all.

Hence the Jews to this very day know -- Saturday is the Sabbath. hint:: They use a Lunar calendar.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

You sun worshiper, what do you do with the extra day each year?

Here again you assume confusion where there is none because you are not reading the posts. Inserting a leap day into the year has nothing at all to do with the weekly cycle.

How many leap years have you found that are reseting the weekly cycle?

Answer: none.

How in the world did you get upside down on this one.???

On your "red herring" which as you said earlier -- you don't even believe.

You can't make sense out of this argument you don't believe - because it itself is mere straw hay stubble. There was nothing to it - to start with.

I say it is incredibly odd that you would adopt opposition to God's TEN Commandments that your own pro-sunday scholars refute

Now you counter with a red-herring idea that you do not believe at all - and are surprised that I find this even more illogical and inexplicable given that it too also makes no sense.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Right, it was false teachers and Judaizers.

I don't know about that. We aren't really told what it is but I tend to think it was a physical ailment of some kind.

 

[klutedavid]

True but that has nothing at all to do with the 7 day cycle in either Calendar system

Calendar details matter.



Which has nothing at all to do with the weekly cycle.



has nothing at all to do with the weekly cycle as even the Jews know. You keep making that leap without any calendar support for it at all.

Hence the Jews to this very day know -- Saturday is the Sabbath. hint:: They use a Lunar calendar.

Hello Bob.

Interesting statement.

Saturday is the Sabbath

The new moon day is the first day of the Jewish month, then we count seven days from after the new moon day. Hence, in the Jewish monthly calendar the Sabbath occurs on the 8th day of every month.

The Jews celebrated the same Sabbath date every month.