The moral aspect of Trump Jr.'s actions

[essentialsaltes]

I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that and I respect your position, but it's been long known that Russia has interfered in our elections going way, way back.

Funny that your defense of a couple hours ago was "But at the time, there was no Russia hysteria going on. He had no idea the Russians were hacking." (and before that, the Trump defenders (including Administration members) said that the meeting was not about alleged dirt on Hillary. and before that, the meeting was not about the campaign. and before that, that there was no meeting, and so on)

Of course, these statements are not necessarily in conflict. It's not quite true that everyone knew the Russians have long been trying to interfere in our elections and sow discord in our country with propaganda and misinformation. Ignorant people are unaware of it; perhaps Don Jr. is ignorant. Of course, he might have been clued in when he received an email offering "official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary. [Information that] is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump"

Maybe he's not just ignorant, but also has poor reading comprehension. Is that your next line of defense?

What do you suppose Don Jr. loved when he said, "If it’s what you say, I love it"?

 

[AirPo]

Look at the election map.
Democrats win in the big cities where there are vast concentrations of people living off the government. Remove the five largest cities and Hillary got slaughtered. The electoral vote, which is what matters, was a landslide for Trump. The Clintons are not now and never were good people. America finally woke up and realized this.

There is one advantage to the sore loser baby squall. We now know that both Comey and Lynch violated federal law on behalf of Hillary. We might get to drain the stinking swamp yet.

Change reality and things are different. What a concept!

 

[Jimmy D]

Funny that your defense of a couple hours ago was "But at the time, there was no Russia hysteria going on. He had no idea the Russians were hacking." (and before that, the Trump defenders (including Administration members) said that the meeting was not about alleged dirt on Hillary. and before that, the meeting was not about the campaign. and before that, that there was no meeting, and so on)

Of course, these statements are not necessarily in conflict. It's not quite true that everyone knew the Russians have long been trying to interfere in our elections and sow discord in our country with propaganda and misinformation. Ignorant people are unaware of it; perhaps Don Jr. is ignorant. Of course, he might have been clued in when he received an email offering "official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary. [Information that] is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump"

Maybe he's not just ignorant, but also has poor reading comprehension. Is that your next line of defense?

What do you suppose Don Jr. loved when he said, "If it’s what you say, I love it"?

Brackets within brackets, audacious!

(Agree with the post by the way).

 

[LinguaIgnota]

Remove the five largest cities and Hillary got slaughtered.

Just keep subtracting cities until Donald no longer lost the popular vote, eh?

The electoral vote, which is what matters, was a landslide for Trump.

You claimed that "nobody liked Hillary; even her biggest fans". All I'm saying is that fewer people liked Donald. I realize that your election system makes it quite possible for the most unpopular candidate to win the presidency - as evidenced by that fact that Donald is the President.

The Clintons are not now and never were good people. America finally woke up and realized this.

It seems that more people woke up and realized that Donald is at least as bad or possibly worse. Since, you know, less people voted for him and all.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Look at the election map.
Democrats win in the big cities where there are vast concentrations of people living off the government. Remove the five largest cities and Hillary got slaughtered. The electoral vote, which is what matters, was a landslide for Trump. The Clintons are not now and never were good people. America finally woke up and realized this.

There is one advantage to the sore loser baby squall. We now know that both Comey and Lynch violated federal law on behalf of Hillary. We might get to drain the stinking swamp yet.

By virtue of the electoral college, Trump legitimately won. I do find it funny that people want to discount those in cities (or California as in other threads) like their votes don't count.

You know what else correlated with supporting Clinton? Higher level of education:
The educational rift in the 2016 election

You know what parts of the country have people with higher levels of education? cities:
USDA ERS - Rural Education

Basically, it was multifactorial. The biggest factor in Trump winning, though, is that Clinton was a terrible candidate.

However, attributing Clinton's popular vote victory to poor people in cities is disingenuous and simplifies the issue too much.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'm sure you knew I was going to disagree "Collusion" and "election hacking" and "treason" and "adversary" and even "watergate" are all liberal talking points right now, so any time something happens, all they have to do is connect the dots.

Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!

But her emails... but her emails... but her emails...

Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!


No fun, is it?

 

[bhsmte]

By virtue of the electoral college, Trump legitimately won. I do find it funny that people want to discount those in cities (or California as in other threads) like their votes don't count.

You know what else correlated with supporting Clinton? Higher level of education:
The educational rift in the 2016 election

You know what parts of the country have people with higher levels of education? cities:
USDA ERS - Rural Education

Basically, it was multifactorial. The biggest factor in Trump winning, though, is that Clinton was a terrible candidate.

However, attributing Clinton's popular vote victory to poor people in cities is disingenuous and simplifies the issue too much.

Clinton lost because; she didnt get the black, women and hispanic vote, close to what obama did, in the battle ground states.

 

[Go Braves]

Look at the election map.
Democrats win in the big cities where there are vast concentrations of people living off the government. Remove the five largest cities and Hillary got slaughtered. The electoral vote, which is what matters, was a landslide for Trump. The Clintons are not now and never were good people. America finally woke up and realized this.

There is one advantage to the sore loser baby squall. We now know that both Comey and Lynch violated federal law on behalf of Hillary. We might get to drain the stinking swamp yet.

Your post sure does look like it's a part of that sore loser baby squall you're trying to mock other folks as being a part of. You want the Dems to accept the fact that Trump won the election but you want to bend over backwards & twist things around to deny the fact that more folks voted for her, not him. The leader of that squall is the man who's pride is so sore he had to start up the voter fraud commission. As a Republican I'm glad other Republicans told that commission to go jump in the Gulf of Mexico.

I'm from Georgia, a red state. I'll tell you this - in the area where the CDC, Emory, GA Tech, the rich & college educated folks live like Buckhead, Hillary kicked Trump's tail hard. Now many folks there still are Republican, still picked the Republican candidate that had 25 years on the Dem & was far more qualified, but they hadn't picked Trump. They're smart. In the rural peanut farming community I lived in down south where folks homeschooled their kids for child labor on the farm, they just love Trump. I wonder how well Trump did in the cities that have Ivy League colleges & are known for being rich, Beverly Hills, Manhattan, SF.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that and I respect your position, but it's been long known that Russia has interfered in our elections going way, way back.

And this time they had inside help.

They knew how the Russians would try to do it because they're in the inside. They're a part of the government. They know Putin's MO. They know his hatred for Clinton, so it was easy to predict they would go all out for Trump.

But it doesn't prove that Trump went all out for Russia's help or intervention. It doesn't prove that they colluded with the Russians or that they knew the details of it.

So the Narrative has gone from "it didn't happen" to "it almost certainly happened, and several people in Donald's campaign may have been involved (including Junior), but Donald himself had nothing to do with it."

The plot thickens...

And yes, if you were running a campaign, and a friend emailed and said, "Hey, I know this person who has dirt on your opponent. Will you meet with her?" Of course you trust your friend. The email show exactly how the conversation went down. You don't have Trump soliciting her. She solicited Trump using a ruse of having information on Clinton.

And Junior happily went along, expecting to get information form a foreign agent.

I'm glad the emails got release because they show he had no idea what she was going to reveal. It could've been about anything, since the Clintons do have history with Russia.

He expected dirt on Hillary.... dirt which Daddy could've used (and indeed may have).

And that's what I don't understand about this. This is supposed to be about the elections right? Not an attempt to impeach Trump. It's about the integrity of our elections. If that was true, then why isn't the DNC and Hillary's connections with the Ukraine government under scrutiny? You have actual proof of the DNC colluding with the Ukrainian government to get dirt on Trump.

Sounds like you've got it backwards.

Why isn't that dominating the headlines? There's more proof of Hillary's collusion than anything they have on Trump, but that's not in the news. No one crying foul or talking about treason.

Hillary isn't President; get over it.

This is clearly a witch hunt against Donald Trump. Just because it was accurately predicted that Russia would interfere, like it always interferes, like China interferes, like North Korea interferes, like the U.S. interferes in other elections, it's something that happens. And the only time the democrats make a stink about it is when they lose.

...and when the Candidate solicits information from Russia, actively encouraging their interference.

 

[KWCrazy]

By virtue of the electoral college, Trump legitimately won. I do find it funny that people want to discount those in cities (or California as in other threads) like their votes don't count.

They don't.
That's why we have the electoral college. It prevents people in a handful of cities from running roughshod over the rest of the country.
You don;t get to vote for president. You vote for electors.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

They don't.
That's why we have the electoral college. It prevents people in a handful of cities from running roughshod over the rest of the country.
You don;t get to vote for president. You vote for electors.

Thanks for that civics lesson - I know how the system works and the theory behind it.

That being said, their votes count toward to majority of voters who wanted Clinton, even though the electoral college system means Trump won.

 

[KWCrazy]

Your post sure does look like it's a part of that sore loser baby squall you're trying to mock other folks as being a part of. You want the Dems to accept the fact that Trump won the election but you want to bend over backwards & twist things around to deny the fact that more folks voted for her, not him.

Not what I said. I said this:

The leader of that squall is the man who's pride is so sore he had to start up the voter fraud commission. As a Republican I'm glad other Republicans told that commission to go jump in the Gulf of Mexico.

Dem Conn. State Rep Arrested For Allegedly Voting 19 Times
source
Anyone who denies voter fraud denies reality. This was an ARREST, not an accusation.

 

[Desk trauma]

That being said, their votes count toward to majority of voters who wanted Clinton, even though the electoral college system means Trump won.

If I may quibble a bit...

The majority of the electorate didn't want nor vote for Secretary Clinton. 58% turned out to vote and she got 48% of those votes for president.

 

[Go Braves]

This is the last post I'm making to you on this. Please get back onto the topic of this thread, of get out of this thread and make your own. Thanks.

Not what I said. I said this:

Amazing looking at all that red that Clinton still got millions more votes than Trump. I read what you wrote. You wrote that if you subtract the folks living in the big cities, Trump would have won the popular vote. You wrote "Democrats win in the big cities where there are vast concentrations of people living off the government." You want to mock folks you think are making a sore loser squall & aren't getting how much squalling you're doing right here. It's petty. As a Republican, I feel embarrassed by the pettiness & the ignorance of what you wrote. Hillary won the richest counties in the country. I know from my own experience that Trump did horribly in the rich parts of Atlanta, in Druid Hills, Buckhead. He did great in the rural poor areas where folks are living off the government.

Dem Conn. State Rep Arrested For Allegedly Voting 19 Times
source
Anyone who denies voter fraud denies reality. This was an ARREST, not an accusation.

Nobody has denied the reality of voter fraud.
Iowa woman who tried to vote for Trump twice pleads guilty to election misconduct
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/voter-fraud-case-tied-to-iowan-woman-voting-for-trump-twice/
What's denied by anybody who lives in reality is that voter fraud is why Trump got whupped in the popular vote. It's why so many states have refused to cooperate with his voter fraud commission, and Republicans have told it to go jump in the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[bhsmte]

If I may quibble a bit...

The majority of the electorate didn't want nor vote for Secretary Clinton. 58% turned out to vote and she got 48% of those votes for president.

The data from the 2016 election tell us a number of things, for those who want to acknowledge the reality.

-we have a deeply divided electorate
-established politicians are deeply distrusted by the majority of Americans (both dems and repub)
-Hilary lost, because she didn't get the same amount of minority vote, in the key rust belt states as Obama did; women, blacks and hispanics.

In other words, the vote the democrats have banked on for decades; women, blacks and hispanics, lost trust in the dems and more specifically, had no trust in Clinton.

 

[Go Braves]

Fox news anchor Shepard Smith went off on President Donald Trump's administration's handling of the Russia investigation.
"Why all these lies?" Smith said during a broadcast on Friday, speaking with fellow anchor Chris Wallace. "Why is it lie after lie after lie?"
Smith made the comments after reporting that there appeared to be more people in Trump Jr.'s meeting with a Russian lawyer than had been acknowledged.
"If there’s nothing there, and that’s what they tell us, why all these lies?" Smith said. "The deception is mind-boggling, and there are still people out there who think we’re making it up. And one day they are going to realize we are not."

Fox News Anchor Goes Off on Trump Jr. Meeting

 

[KCfromNC]

The electoral vote, which is what matters, was a landslide for Trump.

No. Trump claimed it was a landslide for Trump. But as usual, he was uninformed or lying. Or maybe both.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Hillary won the richest counties in the country. I know from my own experience that Trump did horribly in the rich parts of Atlanta, in Druid Hills, Buckhead. He did great in the rural poor areas where folks are living off the government.

I've been really confused by some of the arguments Trump supporters make about liberals. We're either poor, lazy and on government assistance or we're the "liberal elite". The Western and Southern suburbs in my state are the richest suburbs and those districts are swing districts. Both are R controlled right now but by very slim margins.

 

[bhsmte]

No. Trump claimed it was a landslide for Trump. But as usual, he was uninformed or lying. Or maybe both.

Trump won the electoral vote by a good margin, but that was because he took all the swing states. Thing is though, his margin in those swing states, was paper thin and if Clinton won those states, she would have won the electoral vote by a good margin.

The biggest shocker of the 2016 election, was Trump winning all of those key states and Clinton not getting the; black, hispanic and female votes in those states.

 

[Go Braves]

The data from the 2016 election tell us a number of things, for those who want to acknowledge the reality.

-we have a deeply divided electorate
-established politicians are deeply distrusted by the majority of Americans (both dems and repub)
-Hilary lost, because she didn't get the same amount of minority vote, in the key rust belt states as Obama did; women, blacks and hispanics.

In other words, the vote the democrats have banked on for decades; women, blacks and hispanics, lost trust in the dems and more specifically, had no trust in Clinton.

Didn't really want to turn this thread into 1 talking about the election but I'll say this, Trump did a far better job whipping up the frenzy in his voters than she did. I know folks who sat on their butts on election day for years past who went to vote in Nov. because Trump'd convinced them the election was rigged, and every last vote was desperately needed. Convinced them that if Hillary won their guns would be taken away the next day. I'm serious, this is what they believed. There were all sorts of "news" articles saying that on Facebook. Folks believed them. They believed what he said that she'd immediately get impeached, would send the country into chaos. So they went and voted. Too many Dems just assumed she'd win & that it wasn't worth the bother to go out and vote for her, because they didn't think their 1 vote would end up counting for much. He won several states by the tiniest of margins, like 1%, so they were wrong about their 1 vote not mattering.

I was torn because I think they're both corrupt.