Creation Story: Did God lie?

[lesliedellow]

Because the Hebrew priest carefully destroyed it after recasting their history. Although they did leave mention of them in their new records. Not that the Jews could possibly EVER be wrong about anything, because they are the super special apple of Gods eye, he even gave them their own eternal nation which they have oddly been more out of than in.

Another conspiracy theory without a shred of evidence to support it. Maybe you should form a club along with the geocentrists and the "Moon landings never happened" brigade.

 

[lesliedellow]

As opposed to what?

A whole world that your Head Honcho gave us?

The one that Marshall Applewhite and his followers couldn't wait to leave?

In fact, when scientists (erroneously, as usual) reported a UFO behind Hale-Bopp, they couldn't wait to climb aboard.

Hale-Bopp comet caused record UFO sightings

You wouldn't be referring to the exciteable UFOers I suppose.

As for Marshall Applewhite, you are getting desperate if you are trying to equate a typical American loon with scientists.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you care to look back, you will discover that I said since the time of Newton.

That's because someone started fact-checking their work.

Christians got tired of scientists telling them how the universe was configured, changing their stories over and over, and started challenging them to either prove their work or take a hike.

To this day, they haven't -- and even brag about it.

Besides which, Aristotle's science can hardly be called science ...

Oh, of course not.

If it works, it's science; if it doesn't, it's just a theory.

... in the modern sense,

Ya ... there's your escape hatch.

In the modern sense.

Meaning science was wrong in the past, and will continue to be wrong in the present.

Science runs on the No True Scotsman Principle, and its disciples are experts at sweeping their mistakes under the carpet.

 

[AV1611VET]

As for Marshall Applewhite, you are getting desperate if you are trying to equate a typical American loon with scientists.

I'm not equating him with scientists -- why would I want to insult him?

He just jumped on the bandwagon when a UFO was reported behind Hale-Bopp.

 

[lesliedellow]

Christians got tired of scientists telling them how the universe was configured, changing their stories over and over, and started challenging them to either prove their work or take a hike.

Oh jolly good, so now perhaps you are going to start listening when Christians like Martin Nowak, Francis Collins or Simon Conway Morris tell you that evolution happened.

 

[lesliedellow]

He just jumped on the bandwagon when a UFO was reported behind Hale-Bopp.

Which has got precisely nothing to do with science.

Can we expect you to start citing War of The Worlds as science next?

 

[Colter]

Another conspiracy theory without a shred of evidence to support it. Maybe you should form a club along with the geocentrists and the "Moon landings never happened" brigade.

There is a great deal of evidence outside of the bubble, beyond the kind of common seance that quashes Santa Clause, that the Old Testament books were hacked up by various authors. But for Bible worshipers no amount of evidence will ever suffice.

 

[lesliedellow]

There is a great deal of evidence outside of the bubble, beyond the kind of common seance that quashes Santa Clause, that the Old Testament books were hacked up by various authors. But for Bible worshipers no amount of evidence will ever suffice.

No there isn't, and if you are referring to the source theory of the Pentateuch, nobody thinks that the documents J, D, P and E (if they existed) were anything other than theological works themselves.

The same goes for the putative division of Isiaih into Proto, Deutero and Trito Isiaih.

 

[Colter]

 

[lesliedellow]

View attachment 200419

And that proves?

 

[Colter]

And that proves?

Lighten up Leslie, it wasn't intended to prove anything. You are "all in", hook, line and sinker m8! You are far to invested in the Israelites pretentious history to ever concede anything. Carry on!

 

[AV1611VET]

You are far to invested in the Israelites pretentious history to ever concede anything.

This country is great because the Abrahamic covenant is still in effect.

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[Colter]

This country is great because the Abrahamic covenant is still in effect.

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

They wrote that about themselves. The truth is they are no better and no worse than any other of Gods children. The agreement was terminated after the false prophets killed the son of God.

 

[mark kennedy]

I've discussed this point in other forums and am curious about the opinions here.

If we examine the fable of Eden, we discover an interesting observation. God seems to have lied, and the serpent seems to have told the truth. God told Adam and Eve: (Genesis 3:3) “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die .” And the serpent responded: (Genesis 3:4) “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die .” Well, as the story goes, we know they both ate the fruit, and did not die.

Following along...

Next, who is God talking to in the following: (Genesis 3:22) “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us , to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ”? Who is he addressing as us? Also, was the "tree of life" another alternate (but forbidden to humans) means of eternal life in heaven?

Opinions?

Your getting into some of the delicate issues of the text. As far as the warning, 'the day you eat of it you shall die', it's literally more like, 'dying you shall die', it's the idea of a curse. As far as Adam becoming 'like one of us', it sounds like it's reminiscent of the Devil telling them they shall be as gods. Well, they did become like God who is omnipotent, they now know good and evil, before they had no knowledge of evil before. Who God meant by 'us', has been explained a lot of ways. It could be a reference to the Trinity, the angels who were already aware of Satan's rebellion, it could just be awkwardly translated.

 

[AV1611VET]

The agreement was terminated after the false prophets killed the son of God.

Maybe your buddies in Chicago didn't get the message?

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

 

[Colter]

Maybe your buddies in Chicago didn't get the message?

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

o“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, qI took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, rthough I was their husband, declares the Lord. sFor this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: sI will put my law within them, and I will write it ton their hearts. uAnd I will be their God, and they shall be my people. vfor they shall all know me, wfrom the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For xI will forgive their iniquity, and yI will remember their sin no more.”

 

[mark kennedy]

Maybe your buddies in Chicago didn't get the message?

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

That's actually a pretty strong point, even if Israel didn't keep the covenant God kept it. He always will. The Law called for blessings if you kept the law and curses if you broke it. God's love for Israel is unbreakable.

But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. (Psalm 130:4)​

 

[mark kennedy]

o“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, qI took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, rthough I was their husband, declares the Lord. sFor this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: sI will put my law within them, and I will write it ton their hearts. uAnd I will be their God, and they shall be my people. vfor they shall all know me, wfrom the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For xI will forgive their iniquity, and yI will remember their sin no more.”

“Go again, love a woman who is loved by her husband, yet an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods” (Hos. 3:1).

God’s ancient people Israel kept going back to their sins. “What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? For your loyalty is like a morning cloud, and like the dew which goes away early” (Hos. 6:4). But God never stopped loving them. “When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son” (Hos. 11:1). “I led them with cords of a man, with bonds of love” (Hos. 11:4). “How can I give you up, O Ephraim? How can I surrender you, O Israel?” (Hos. 11:8). And because He never stopped loving them, He never stopped pleading with them: “Return, O Israel, to the Lord your God, for you have stumbled because of your iniquity” (Hos. 14:1). (Undying Love— The Story of Hosea and Gomer)

 

[juvenissun]

If we examine the fable of Eden, we discover an interesting observation. God seems to have lied,

Illogical beginning of the thought.
If God is God, then no matter what, He will NOT lie.

The rest is something else. First, in order to continue the understanding, you MUST admit before any reasoning is made: God will NOT lie.

With that premise, now we can start to seek an answer to the question.

 

[bhsmte]

I've discussed this point in other forums and am curious about the opinions here.

If we examine the fable of Eden, we discover an interesting observation. God seems to have lied, and the serpent seems to have told the truth. God told Adam and Eve: (Genesis 3:3) “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die .” And the serpent responded: (Genesis 3:4) “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die .” Well, as the story goes, we know they both ate the fruit, and did not die.

Following along...

Next, who is God talking to in the following: (Genesis 3:22) “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us , to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ”? Who is he addressing as us? Also, was the "tree of life" another alternate (but forbidden to humans) means of eternal life in heaven?

Opinions?

Tough rode to hoe here.

To prove someone lied, you would first need to show this person exists and then prove this person actually said something you are claiming is a lie.