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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Ask me questions, when you are prepared to answer questions put to you.

When you ask accusational questions of things I do not remember in what I said whereby you are trying to catch me in something I cannot affirm or deny, then I by all means, I am not going to answer. You act like I have a photographic memory or something, when I don't. I have asked you questions plenty of times before you asked me this one particular question and you do not answer me. I am not expecting you to change. For you are not fair and honest in our discussions. I have answered you plenty of times and yet, I did not get a reply back from you with my questions. You are seeking to discredit me any way you can because your belief does not hold any weight or merit in Scripture on it's own.

So far I understand that you can sin on occasion and still be saved.
So far as I understood your belief by what you said about your belief, you are turning God's grace into a license for immorality as Jude 1:4 warns against. For you said that a believer is under laws but they are not under these laws in relation to their salvation. So a believer can rape, murder, steal, etc. and be saved while doing these horrible acts.

You said:
Is part of the law you believe Christians are righteous by observing, all of the literal Commandments of Christ?

Obeying any command makes one righteous. 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous. But in your odd strange world view, you think the term "law of righteousness" equates with the obedience to certain laws as the relating to salvation when the Bible does not specifically say that. Anyways, I already provided a list of verses to you on those commands that if disobeyed, can lead to spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). These commands are from Jesus and His followers. Yet, there are other commands that Jesus and his followers gave us that are not salvation issues if they are disobeyed. Baptism is a clear example of a sin that does not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 Peter 3:21).


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stuart lawrence

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When you ask accusational questions of things I do not remember in what I said whereby you are trying to catch me in something I cannot affirm or deny, then I by all means, I am not going to answer. You act like I have a photographic memory or something, when I don't. I have asked you questions plenty of times before you asked me this one particular question and you do not answer me. I am not expecting you to change. For you are not fair and honest in our discussions. I have answered you plenty of times and yet, I did not get a reply back from you with my questions. You are seeking to discredit me any way you can because your belief does not hold any weight or merit in Scripture on it's own.

So far I understand that you can sin on occasion and still be saved.
So far as I understood your belief by what you said about your belief, you are turning God's grace into a license for immorality as Jude 1:4 warns against. For you said that a believer is under laws but they are not under these laws in relation to their salvation. So a believer can rape, murder, steal, etc. and be saved while doing these horrible acts.



Obeying any command makes one righteous. 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous. But in your odd strange world view, you think the term "law of righteousness" equates with the obedience to certain laws as the relating to salvation when the Bible does not specifically say that. Anyways, I already provided a list of verses to you on those commands that if disobeyed, can lead to spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). These commands are from Jesus and His followers. Yet, there are other commands that Jesus and his followers gave us that are not salvation issues if they are disobeyed. Baptism is a clear example of a sin that does not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 Peter 3:21).


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Are each and every literal command of Christ part of this justification/ righteousness of observing the law you believe the Christian is under?
You see, once again you cannot answer the specific question can you.
The answer is you believe they are, but you can't say that because you don't even try and obey them all do you
Hopeless
Please go and bug someone else with your empty statements/ demands that have no bearing on the reality of your own life
 
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Is part of this law of righteousness you believe the Christian is under, obeying each and every literal command of Christ?

You really are in the far left field in not understanding of what I am talking about.
i said to you before that there are sins that lead unto spiritual death and sins that do not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17). This would be spiritual death because we all die physically regardless of whether we are a believer or an unbeliever and John contrasts "spiritual life" with "spiritual death" in his epistle and he mentions nothing of physical death. it is the context of the epistle. In fact, the immediate context in 1 John 5:10 is a contrast between spiritual life and not having spiritual life.


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stuart lawrence

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You really are in the far left field in not understanding of what I am talking about.
i said to you before that there are sins that lead unto spiritual death and sins that do not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17). This would be spiritual death because we all die physically regardless of whether we are a believer or an unbeliever and John contrasts "spiritual life" with "spiritual death" in his epistle and he mentions nothing of physical death. it is the context of the epistle. In fact, the immediate context in 1 John 5:10 is a contrast between spiritual life and not having spiritual life.


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You really are in the far left field in not understanding of what I am talking about.
i said to you before that there are sins that lead unto spiritual death and sins that do not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17). This would be spiritual death because we all die physically regardless of whether we are a believer or an unbeliever and John contrasts "spiritual life" with "spiritual death" in his epistle and he mentions nothing of physical death. it is the context of the epistle. In fact, the immediate context in 1 John 5:10 is a contrast between spiritual life and not having spiritual life.


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Jason, you reel off pat statements from your head, using scripture to do it and make demands of others you do not even try to attain to in your own life.
That's the truth
 
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stuart lawrence

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I think we all know, (apart from Jason it appears today), that if a law of righteousness exists you are justified/ righteous before God by observing it. Therefore it is indeed a salvation issue.
However, Jason appears not to know exactly which these laws are he must obey to be righteous/ justified before God. So he is going to do a study of commands in the NT.

Tis a strange place the internet at times
 
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Kenny'sID

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When you ask accusational questions of things I do not remember in what I said whereby you are trying to catch me in something I cannot affirm or deny, then I by all means, I am not going to answer. You act like I have a photographic memory or something, when I don't. I have asked you questions plenty of times before you asked me this one particular question and you do not answer me. I am not expecting you to change. For you are not fair and honest in our discussions. I have answered you plenty of times and yet, I did not get a reply back from you with my questions. You are seeking to discredit me any way you can because your belief does not hold any weight or merit in Scripture on it's own.

So far I understand that you can sin on occasion and still be saved.
So far as I understood your belief by what you said about your belief, you are turning God's grace into a license for immorality as Jude 1:4 warns against. For you said that a believer is under laws but they are not under these laws in relation to their salvation. So a believer can rape, murder, steal, etc. and be saved while doing these horrible acts.



Obeying any command makes one righteous. 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous. But in your odd strange world view, you think the term "law of righteousness" equates with the obedience to certain laws as the relating to salvation when the Bible does not specifically say that. Anyways, I already provided a list of verses to you on those commands that if disobeyed, can lead to spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). These commands are from Jesus and His followers. Yet, there are other commands that Jesus and his followers gave us that are not salvation issues if they are disobeyed. Baptism is a clear example of a sin that does not lead unto spiritual death (See 1 Peter 3:21).


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Glad you recognize the common tactics, Jason, and what it means when your questions go unanswered. Tends to be the way this argument goes.

One thing I've noticed, when you are in the right, you can answer any question and answer honestly, because you have nothing whatsoever to hide. When we see that not happening with someone, and happening constantly, it tells a story.

I don't have a photographic memory either, but am always happy to answer anything that I missed, just as I'm sure you are.

Don't let em get you down. :)
 
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stuart lawrence

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Glad you recognize the common tactics, Jason, and what it means when your questions go unanswered. Tends to be the way this argument goes.

One thing I've noticed, when you are in the right, you can answer any question and answer honestly, because you have nothing whatsoever to hide. When we see that not happening with someone, and happening constantly, it tells a story.

I don't have a photographic memory either, but am always happy to answer anything that I missed, just as I'm sure you are.

Don't let em get you down. :)
Well Jason hasn't answered every question let alone honestly.
Mind you, there are quite a few that quote:
If you love me obey my Commandments.
Yet though they consistently quote that they themselves do not even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ.
Would you call that hypocrisy, or say it's fine?
 
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Dan61861

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Yes, lying is a sin that leads unto spiritual death if not repented of. But you have proved that I have lied. Good luck with that. Even if I did lie, I can repent and move on. It is not something that enslaves or rules my life because Christ lives within me.


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Jason, that sounds like a licence to sin. I mean, even if I did lie, I can repent and move on. When others say this, you call it cheap grace. This is exactly what Paul was talking about when he said, I do what I hate and don't do what I love. Thank God I have Christ. This is what we are talking about when we say, Christ is our righteousness...we are sinners.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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Are each and every literal command of Christ part of this justification/ righteousness of observing the law you believe the Christian is under?
You see, once again you cannot answer the specific question can you.
The answer is you believe they are, but you can't say that because you don't even try and obey them all do you
Hopeless
Please go and bug someone else with your empty statements/ demands that have no bearing on the reality of your own life

Well, first, you use terms that are not clear and are in your own private collection of understanding. Instead of saying "law of righteousness", simply say, "disobedience of God's commands is not a salvation issue" or say "sins that lead unto spiritual death - according to the Conditional Salvationist." If you want to only be understood by only yourself, then by all means, continue to speak as you do.

Second, I said to you before that the keeping of all of these commandments does not relate to our salvation. Some do and some don't. Yet, you keep falsely trying to push a belief on me that is not true. Not sure why, but I am sure it has to do with your own personal belief system.


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Dan61861

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Not really.

Without the resurrection a person's would still dead in their sins (1 Corinthians 15:17).
Also, Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 says that Christ gave Himself on the cross for a specific purpose, too. It would probably be helpful if you re-read these verses very slowly a couple of times in prayer.


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Jason, when I say Christ and Him crucified I am quoting Paul. Paul is talking about the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord. "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

In Christ
Daniel
 
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stuart lawrence

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Well, first, you use terms that are not clear and are in your own private collection of understanding. Instead of saying "law of righteousness", simply say, "disobedience of God's commands is not a salvation issue" or say "sins that lead unto spiritual death - according to the Conditional Salvationist." If you want to only be understood by only yourself, then by all means, continue to speak as you do.

Second, I said to you before that the keeping of all of these commandments does not relate to our salvation. Some do and some don't. Yet, you keep falsely trying to push a belief on me that is not true. Not sure why, but I am sure it has to do with your own personal belief system.


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As we all know, and you have relentlessly stated in this thread, you believe the Christian is under a righteousness of observing the law.
Yet when I ask you if that includes each and every literal command of Christ, all you can do is deflect, deflect, deflect
 
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Kenny'sID

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Yet though they consistently quote that they themselves do not even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ.
Would you call that hypocrisy, or say it's fine?

You say "they"...direct the question at me, and not considering what anyone else might say or do so things are a more clear. I can only answer for me and I have no idea what they obey or not.
 
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stuart lawrence

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You say "they"...direct the question at me, and not considering what anyone else might say or do so things are a more clear. I can only answer for me and I have no idea what they obey or not.
Another one who ducks answering the question put to him, though you are perfectly happy to pass comments on: they
When it suits you
 
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Jason, that sounds like a licence to sin. I mean, even if I did lie, I can repent and move on. When others say this, you call it cheap grace. This is exactly what Paul was talking about when he said, I do what I hate and don't do what I love. Thank God I have Christ. This is what we are talking about when we say, Christ is our righteousness...we are sinners.

In Christ
Daniel

No. In Romans 7:14-24, Paul was speaking as a pharisee and his struggle with keeping the Old Law when he did not have Jesus. In verse 25 is when Paul transitions back to speaking as a Christian and is thankful now that he has Jesus to overcome sin. For Romans 13:14 says we are to put on Jesus so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Galatians 5:16 says walk in the Spirit so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:1 says there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. To say you will always sin and confess in endless get dirty and then clean wash cycle is to say that sin is your master and it has dominion over you. Christ has come to set the captives free from being a slave to sin. For Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin.

God does not want us to pay lip service, he wants us to be transformed by His power and His working in our lives.


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Kenny'sID

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Another one who ducks answering the question put to him

OK, the answer is I don't know because your question refers to something someone else is doing or not doing and you did not make me privy to particulars.

But I see how you play the game now....nothing new. I tried to work with you on the question but for some reason you were afraid to do that, and to cover that fact up, you put the blame on me. But now you have your answer and we can move on.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You are funny

Why is it funny that I would ask for specifics? Are these details you need to leave out in order to defend your end of this? Or things you need to hide in order to make your questions work for you? Be open about everything, else everyone sees exactly what you are about. Hide nothing, and answer all questions, as I already said.

You fell apart here a lot faster than I expected. ;)
 
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Glad you recognize the common tactics, Jason, and what it means when your questions go unanswered. Tends to be the way this argument goes.

One thing I've noticed, when you are in the right, you can answer any question and answer honestly, because you have nothing whatsoever to hide. When we see that not happening with someone, and happening constantly, it tells a story.

I don't have a photographic memory either, but am always happy to answer anything that I missed, just as I'm sure you are.

Don't let em get you down. :)

Thank you, Kenny.
I am willing to explain anything I have written.
But he says I said something that I do not believe and I said bring forth the post # and I will be happy to explain. If I made a mistake in my wording of something, I am also happy to admit that my words might have not been as clear, etc.

But thank you, Kenny.
And may God bless you.


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