Should we sing Patriotic songs at Mass? Probably not.

[Mountain_Girl406]

Father James Martin: Should we sing patriotic songs at Mass? Probably not.

I noticed it seemed very out of place this year when Sunday's Mass ended with America the Beautiful...I thought it was the mixed feelings which I'm experiencing this Fourth, but the theme of the readings also contributed. I think this article captures it well.

 

[Hank77]

I know this is a Catholic forum. I am not asking a question but I am not disagreeing, so I think that I can make a comment. If there is an objection I will delete it.

First I agree with Father Martin.
Second I just want to point out that this is a practice in many denominational churches, not just the Catholic church.

 

[Fantine]

If the Church doesn't relate faith to everyday life then Catholics won't be encouraged to live out the Mass the other six days of the week.

If a homily successfully connects the readings to the Gospel without connecting it to the parishioners in the pews, it will fail.

If the music helps relate faith to everyday life, it's doing it's job. If it doesn't, uh-uh.

In the 1990's I had some good practice relating the readings to the lives of a very demanding audience--elementary school students in Children's Liturgy of the Word. If I do say so myself, I sometimes did a better job---because I knew what my goal was.

I don't think patriotic songs are inappropriate on July 4. Even though our country is in chaos and crisis, and Catholics should rightfully be horrified at the administration some of them helped ascend to power, we can all love our country enough to try to rescue it, and a hymn can remind us of what it was like to have a government we believed in.

 

[Martinius]

Most of the parishes I am familiar with that do a patriotic hymn around the 4th usually do it as the recessional hymn. The choir at my current parish sang "America the Beautiful" before the start of Mass this past Sunday. That seems like a good way to acknowledge the holiday.

 

[Tallguy88]

There is nothing inherently wrong with it as long as the song itself is not objectionable. America the Beautiful certainly has religious themes as well as patriotic, so it doesn't bother me.

 

[Tallguy88]

The article really seems to be grasping at straws. The quote from Vatican 2 is especially ironic. I agree with it completely, and think at least half the hymnal should be thrown out for being too happy-clappy, theologically devoid, or just lacking in reverence. But I think we can stomach a song asking God to bless America or acknowledging it's beauty once or twice a year.

 

[Hetta]

Not imo. The church should transcend nationalism. I can recall feeling very uncomfortable in some churches when first arriving in the U.S. that so many supported the singing of patriotic songs. What are non-Americans to do in that case. People look at the non-singers suspiciously and assume they are anti-American when, in fact, we simply are not American. I would like to see them attend a service in France and try to sing along with Le Chant des Partisan or La Marseillaise. They would be completely lost. But then that wouldn't happen in a French church.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Father James Martin: Should we sing patriotic songs at Mass? Probably not.

I noticed it seemed very out of place this year when Sunday's Mass ended with America the Beautiful...I thought it was the mixed feelings which I'm experiencing this Fourth, but the theme of the readings also contributed. I think this article captures it well.

I agree with you about the article. It does capture it well. And as far as my personal opinion on the matter, I would say considering the history of America and how this country was originally founded, which wasn't on the disingenuous facade of freedom, liberty or justice for all, I wouldn't want to bring that kind of deception into God's House. It just seems very inappropriate to me since it was His name used to justify Manifest Destiny and many of the atrocities committed under the guise of Christianity.

 

[Tallguy88]

The Bible is full of prayers asking God's blessing on the nation. We pray for our nation and president at every Mass. I see no reason why America the Beautiful is out of sync with Catholic or Christian tradition or theology when sung around a national holiday.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

America the Beautiful isn't the only patriotic song I've heard at Mass, the Star Spangled Banner and the Battle Hymn of the Rwpublic, had been sung as well. At least I haven't heard any Lee Greenwood or 'Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue'

 

[Shiloh Raven]

America the Beautiful isn't the only patriotic song I've heard at Mass, the Star Spangled Banner and the Battle Hymn of the Republic, had been sung as well. At least I haven't heard any Lee Greenwood or 'Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue'

All that "God and Country" rhetoric has always been unsettling to me, especially in a church. Churches are suppose to be a place of worship and to show reverence to God (a sacred place), not a patriotic rally to show reverence for your country. Churches shouldn't be used to promote nationalism.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Not imo. The church should transcend nationalism. I can recall feeling very uncomfortable in some churches when first arriving in the U.S. that so many supported the singing of patriotic songs. What are non-Americans to do in that case. People look at the non-singers suspiciously and assume they are anti-American when, in fact, we simply are not American. I would like to see them attend a service in France and try to sing along with Le Chant des Partisan or La Marseillaise. They would be completely lost. But then that wouldn't happen in a French church.

I recently started attending church with my family again, but my husband and I decided our family would stay home from church this last Sunday (the 2nd) because the church we currently attend is like that too. Our oldest son plays guitar in the worship team and he was informed that there would be patriotic songs included in the worship service, so he also stayed home and didn't attend church either.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Not the right direction in my opinion. ..but at least it wasn't a Catholic Choir.
Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump

 

[tadoflamb]

I guess I'm still enough of a patriot that I don't mind a patriotic song for the processional and recessional around this time of year. The situation with the communion meditation song Fr. Martin describes would bother me as well, but then again I refuse to sing 'A Mighty Fortress'. These days I'm leery of overt nationalism, I would hope to keep it out of our worship.

 

[Tallguy88]

Not the right direction in my opinion. ..but at least it wasn't a Catholic Choir.
Church choir sings 'Make America Great Again' song to Trump

That is creepy, not patriotic. But it wasn't a Mass, like you said

 

[Tallguy88]

America the Beautiful isn't the only patriotic song I've heard at Mass, the Star Spangled Banner and the Battle Hymn of the Rwpublic, had been sung as well. At least I haven't heard any Lee Greenwood or 'Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue'

What's wrong with Battle Hymn? It's more theological than patriotic. It's about how we need to "die to make men free", which is a direct reference to fighting to end slavery. I'm also pretty sure it's in the hymnal.

 

[Tallguy88]

I guess I'm still enough of a patriot that I don't mind a patriotic song for the processional and recessional around this time of year. The situation with the communion meditation song Fr. Martin describes would bother me as well, but then again I refuse to sing 'A Mighty Fortress'. These days I'm leery of overt nationalism, I would hope to keep it out of our worship.

It's always confused me why the Catholic Church sings Mighty Fortress. It was written by Martin Luther to be a contrast against the Catholicism of his day. It's a good song, but it's just odd that the Church embraces the anthem of the Reformation.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

What's wrong with Battle Hymn? It's more theological than patriotic. It's about how we need to "die to make men free", which is a direct reference to fighting to end slavery. I'm also pretty sure it's in the hymnal.

Not saying I see anything wrong with it in particular, just that it's another patriotic song sometimes sung at mass. I like quite a few patriotic songs, I just prefer them outside of Mass. I like to think of the Church as universal, a place where everyone in the world is equal in God's eyes. ..we're surrounded by nationalism everywhere else, putting American goals and lives first, and sometimes it's nice to have a refuge from that.

 

[Tallguy88]

Not saying I see anything wrong with it in particular, just that it's another patriotic song sometimes sung at mass. I like quite a few patriotic songs, I just prefer them outside of Mass. I like to think of the Church as universal, a place where everyone in the world is equal in God's eyes. ..we're surrounded by nationalism everywhere else, putting American goals and lives first, and sometimes it's nice to have a refuge from that.

I don't think that Battle Hymn is a patriotic song like that.

Do you also object when we pray for our country, our leaders, and our soldiers? We do it at every Mass.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I don't think that Battle Hymn is a patriotic song like that.

Do you also object when we pray for our country, our leaders, and our soldiers? We do it at every Mass.

I don't object, but honestly at our parish we pray a lot more for global concerns, praying for our country, leaders and soldiers hapoens, but not regularly.