The only true God

[pius463]

Genesis 3:22-24 22And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Genesis 3:22 (confirmed in Genesis 3:24) says that the LORD God does not want the man to live forever. John 6:40 says that the will of the Father is to give eternal life. John 8:24 says believe in Jesus Christ is a must. John 17:3 says eternal life comes through knowing the only true God.

I am concluding that the LORD God (Genesis 3:22) is differ to the Father that Jesus introduced us to know (John 17:3). Am I wrong?

 

[mcarmichael]

I am concluding that the LORD God (Genesis 3:22) is differ to the Father that Jesus introduced us to know (John 17:3). Am I wrong?

I can almost tell that English isn't your first language.

It is true that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not God the Father, except it's more complicated than that.

You might read St. Athanasius, "On the Incarnation". No further comments as I have yet to complete that work.

 

[pius463]

I can almost tell that English isn't your first language.

It is true that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not God the Father, except it's more complicated than that.

You might read St. Athanasius, "On the Incarnation". No further comments as I have yet to complete that work.

Thank you.

You are right, I am an Indonesian. I hope that my English is not too bad to express my thought.

I am glad to read your comment "as I have yet to complete that work".

Considering John 8:24, John 10:30, John 14:7, John 14:9, John 16:26, John 17:3, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Father. I just accept and believe those sayings without interpreting.

Then only, I think we need to find out: what are the real purpose of "the Son of God" and the contradictories like John 14:28, and why those names and contradictories are there.

While the highest confession by Peter about "the living Jesus" is Matthew 16:16, which is "below" John 10:30, John 14:7, so, I think we have to pay attention to John 16:12-15, and obey in order for us to come to John 17:3.

 

[Butch5]

Genesis 3:22-24 22And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Genesis 3:22 (confirmed in Genesis 3:24) says that the LORD God does not want the man to live forever. John 6:40 says that the will of the Father is to give eternal life. John 8:24 says believe in Jesus Christ is a must. John 17:3 says eternal life comes through knowing the only true God.

I am concluding that the LORD God (Genesis 3:22) is differ to the Father that Jesus introduced us to know (John 17:3). Am I wrong?

Yes, that conclusion is wrong. God the Father that Jesus speaks of is the God of Genesis. He is the one true God, that Jesus speaks of.

 

[Jesus4Ever]

I don't think Genesis is saying God does not want us to live forever. I think in Genesis it's saying because man knows good and evil (and thus can choose evil), then man cannot live forever because of His Justice and Righteousness (sin is against God so since human can now be sinful, it wouldn't be right for them to live forever to do sin.) But then He sent Jesus, the Son of God, to die for our sins so that we may receive eternal life. Through accepting Him, we can be saved from our sins and find the path to Righteousness, which will allow us to have eternal life. That way we will live in God's glory forever.

 

[pius463]

Yes, that conclusion is wrong. God the Father that Jesus speaks of is the God of Genesis. He is the one true God, that Jesus speaks of.

1Corinthians 8:5-6 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; ...

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he you will indeed die in your sins.”

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 17:3 says eternal life come after "they know you, the only true God". If the God of Genesis is the one true God, so the Jews know the one true God, then why John 8:24 says "if you do not believe that I am he you will indeed die in your sins.”. Considering 1Corinthians 8:5-6, there's still a possibility that one has not come to know the only true God, yet. One choose his or her perceived God but not yet come to know the only true God.

 

[pius463]

I don't think Genesis is saying God does not want us to live forever. I think in Genesis it's saying because man knows good and evil (and thus can choose evil), then man cannot live forever because of His Justice and Righteousness (sin is against God so since human can now be sinful, it wouldn't be right for them to live forever to do sin.) But then He sent Jesus, the Son of God, to die for our sins so that we may receive eternal life. Through accepting Him, we can be saved from our sins and find the path to Righteousness, which will allow us to have eternal life. That way we will live in God's glory forever.

"But then He sent Jesus, the Son of God"; as I believe that I have come to John 17:3, for me Jesus is the only true God and not "just" the Son of God. As Christians, then, we need only to know "why" the names and the contradictions of Jesus' sayings are there. Still a long way to go.

For long time we (Christians) think that Jesus die for our sins. I find no words of Jesus says that He die for our sins. I prefer to believe that Jesus come so that we may know the only true God and arrived at John 17:3. In this, if I have to believe that Jesus die for our sins, the true sin is "stack in believing the 'perceived God' and not come to believe the only true God (John 8:24)". Remember, we are living in the jungle of 1Corinthians 8:5.

 

[Butch5]

1Corinthians 8:5-6 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; ...

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he you will indeed die in your sins.”

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 17:3 says eternal life come after "they know you, the only true God". If the God of Genesis is the one true God, so the Jews know the one true God, then why John 8:24 says "if you do not believe that I am he you will indeed die in your sins.”. Considering 1Corinthians 8:5-6, there's still a possibility that one has not come to know the only true God, yet. One choose his or her perceived God but not yet come to know the only true God.

When Paul is writing about, "gods", he's not acknowledging other gods, he's talking about the heathen gods. They aren't really gods they're just called gods by the people. Paul actually says elsewhere that they are demons.

In John 8:24 when Jesus said, "I am he" the word he isn't in the Greek text. It literally reads, "I am". Jesus said, "for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins. "I am" is the title of the angel of the Lord that was in the burning bush.

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (Exod. 3:14 KJV)

The Angel of the Lord is the preincarnate Jesus. He speaks the word of the Lord.

Later in this chapter Jesus said, "before Abraham was, I am." That's when the Jews took up stones to stone Him. It's my understanding that the Jews understood Jesus to be saying that it was him that was in the burning bush speaking with Moses.

 

[Butch5]

"But then He sent Jesus, the Son of God"; as I believe that I have come to John 17:3, for me Jesus is the only true God and not "just" the Son of God. As Christians, then, we need only to know "why" the names and the contradictions of Jesus' sayings are there. Still a long way to go.

For long time we (Christians) think that Jesus die for our sins. I find no words of Jesus says that He die for our sins. I prefer to believe that Jesus come so that we may know the only true God and arrived at John 17:3. In this, if I have to believe that Jesus die for our sins, the true sin is "stack in believing the 'perceived God' and not come to believe the only true God (John 8:24)". Remember, we are living in the jungle of 1Corinthians 8:5.

You may have to ask the moderators to move this thread. I don't believe the rules allow this subject, to be discussed here

 

[mcarmichael]

Thank you.

You are right, I am an Indonesian. I hope that my English is not too bad to express my thought.

I am glad to read your comment "as I have yet to complete that work".

No, it isn't too bad. Just me being a jerk, sorry.
Well, do you agree that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is co-eternal with the Father? It is very difficult to grasp, but it's Biblical basis is pretty solid I think.

 

[pius463]

No, it isn't too bad. Just me being a jerk, sorry.
Well, do you agree that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is co-eternal with the Father? It is very difficult to grasp, but it's Biblical basis is pretty solid I think.

I believe that Jesus is the Father. For me, Jesus is "not just" the Son of God. There're only too many distractions to conclude.

Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD and Messiah."

is conflicting with
John 10:30 I and the Father are one."
John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

If we follow,
John 16:12-15 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you."

then, we can put Acts 2:36 as a level below receiving John 10:30 and John 14:6. There're clearly said in John 16:13-15 that the Spirit of truth hears and receives only "Jesus' words".

So, there's likely a staircase of acceptance of Jesus and of knowing the only true God; a staircase with many steps. A man might be at any one of the steps and the highest step of "acceptance" is to believe that Jesus is the Father and the only true God (John 17:3).

We see,
firstly, John 1:14, The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. ...
then Jesus was received as "a teacher/rabbi", then as "a prophet", then as "the Messiah, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16), LORD and Messiah (Acts 2:36), then the Church declared the Triune God. What did Jesus say about himself? John 10:30, John 14:7, etc.

I think we need to step up.
John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
May be, the last day is arriving at John 17:3.

Thank you.

 

[pius463]

You may have to ask the moderators to move this thread. I don't believe the rules allow this subject, to be discussed here

I am sorry if I am disturbing. I am searching for truth. I found John 14:6, also I found
Matthew 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.

I believe,
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I think truth is not to be doctrine. Truth is to be searched by following what Jesus said. John 14:6; one shall not only be laying on the way, under the guidance of the holy Spirit one will find the truth, and the truth bring one to life (John 17:3).

I live in Indonesia where "the oneness of (our) God" need explanation.
Mark 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."

I think that I have found the truth, and like to test whether it's all true.

Thank you.

 

[mcarmichael]

I believe that Jesus is the Father. For me, Jesus is "not just" the Son of God.

The Messiah, maybe?

 

[mcarmichael]

How do you read The Letter to the Hebrews? Specifically the very Christological passage at the beginning?

 

[pius463]

The Messiah, maybe?

The Messiah, yes. But, above that, I believe Jesus is the Father, the only true God.

If Jesus is not the Father, then
John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
is not true.

 

[mcarmichael]

Anything else?

 

[pius463]

How do you read The Letter to the Hebrews? Specifically the very Christological passage at the beginning?

I see a staircase of acceptance of Jesus and of knowing the only true God; a staircase with many steps. A man might be at any one of the steps and the highest step of "acceptance" is to believe that Jesus is the Father and the only true God (John 17:3).

The Letter to the Hebrews and the very Christological passage is a step positioning lower in the staircase. I did believe it long time back, as I move forward seeking for the truth (John 14:6) I find John 16:12-15. On stepping up, one has to leave behind the lower step otherwise he or she will always be in confusion, may be not in faith but in explaining.

Jesus, God, knows all. He knows that Peter (and the Church?) at that time accepted Him not as God (yet) but as the "Messiah, the Son of the living God". God does not dictate, God teaches humanity to come closer to knowing the truth, knowing Him the only true God. I believe, then He gave John 16:12-13 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. ...."

As to my opinion, we need to step up.

 

[mcarmichael]

I see a staircase of acceptance of Jesus and of knowing the only true God; a staircase with many steps. A man might be at any one of the steps and the highest step of "acceptance" is to believe that Jesus is the Father and the only true God (John 17:3).

The Letter to the Hebrews and the very Christological passage is a step positioning lower in the staircase. I did believe it long time back, as I move forward seeking for the truth (John 14:6) I find John 16:12-15. On stepping up, one has to leave behind the lower step otherwise he or she will always be in confusion, may be not in faith but in explaining.

Jesus, God, knows all. He knows that Peter (and the Church?) at that time accepted Him not as God (yet) but as the "Messiah, the Son of the living God". God does not dictate, God teaches humanity to come closer to knowing the truth, knowing Him the only true God. I believe, then He gave John 16:12-13 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. ...."

As to my opinion, we need to step up.

Hm. And the Spirit of truth?

 

[mcarmichael]

Very good English, btw.

 

[mcarmichael]

Okay, one Bible verse for you: 1 John 4:1-3 (NKJV)

Just let it marinate.