4 Day Work Week

[Paradoxum]

Of course, but that wasn't what he was referring to. In the US, most states are at will employment, which means the employer can fire you at anytime. Now, if they fire you for reasons that violate the law, then that is a different story.

Basic regular hours could be require by government.

 

[Paradoxum]

I guess it would depend, on how much work organizations that employee people, want or need to get done to stay competitive as a business.

I agree it should be done while being practical.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This was my point. Industrialization of the developed world means loss of industrial jobs in the UK because it's cheaper to produce elsewhere.
I'm not sure why you thought I was disagreeing with that.

Uhh...I didn't realize you were proposing this with acceptance of the fact that even more manufacturing would be lost.

I believe so. I'm not sure what your point is though.

Well you've gone from an economy of producers (producing products) to servicers (providing specialized services)...what do you think would happen if your service industry went the same way as your manufacturing industry? The advent of the 1 day work week until society collapses?

 

[Paradoxum]

Uhh...I didn't realize you were proposing this with acceptance of the fact that even more manufacturing would be lost.

I didn't say that either. I'd want to promote industry beyond what it is today.

Well you've gone from an economy of producers (producing products) to servicers (providing specialized services)...what do you think would happen if your service industry went the same way as your manufacturing industry?

Into the crap hole probably. But I'm not the one assuming that will happen.

The advent of the 1 day work week until society collapses?

Who said that? But I guess at that time you'd have robots doing most things.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I didn't say that either. I'd want to promote industry beyond what it is today.

Easier said than done. Industry is like college wrestling. No one wants to endlessly train, starve themselves, dehydrate just to make weight....but if they don't, they'll get beaten by someone who does.

Into the crap hole probably. But I'm not the one assuming that will happen.

Yeah...something else will come up right lol? Something of value other than goods and services.

Who said that? But I guess at that time you'd have robots doing most things.

It was a point I was trying to make...if the 4 day week is such a grand idea, why not just make it a one day week?

 

[Tree of Life]

Many because of poor wages, even though productivity has increased.

Many of my friends own their own businesses and so they choose the hours that they work. In order for their services to be marketable (performed at a price level that people are willing to pay) and for them to be able to make the living that they want to make they end up working 5-6 days a week. And this is them setting their own hours and pay.

Working 5 days isn't fortunate, working 6 days is exploitation.

I thank God that he has given me something gainful to do 5 days a week so that I can support my family.

When people might have worked 12 or 16 hours a day.

If you can get a week's work done in 4 10 hour shifts then all the power to you!

I agree, and that's my point. The money exists, it just isn't going to the people do do most of the work.

Now you're talking about labor markets. If laborers are being under-payed or under appreciated somewhere then what stops them from finding a better, more competitive employer who is willing to pay them more money for the same work?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I have been working in a professional field for about 25 years and have known a lot of people including myself once or twice that have had their jobs eliminated for business reasons. I can tell you without question, that everyone I have known (myself included) felt an empty void when you are not employed for longer than a few weeks. Psychological studies of bigger groups, have also supported the importance of working to one's overall well being and mental state.

Very true. I was laid off once and felt terrible until I went back to work. Work has been my anchor my whole life. I love it and am still going at 77 (tentative plans to retire at 80.....but we'll see).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm talking about less days and hours, not the same flexible hours.

So am I. String together some part time jobs. Lot's flexibility in the job market.

The problem is work is a waste of time, if you believe life is about more than money.

Work and money are absolutely necessary in todays' world.

Maybe they should wish on a star and get their perfect job?

Many do. That's why they go to college.

It's not about people being unhappy, it's that peoples lives could be better. The economy should work for everyone, not just the richest. All should benefit similarly from growth, not only the rich. And maybe there's more to life than money.

The economy does work for everyone. People are just ignorant about how to make it work for themselves. When I got out of high school I went full time at the supermarket I worked for as a student. One of my friends took off for Oklahoma to work in the oil fields. He, unlike me, was willing to leave home for a good job. Many, like those coal miners, can't envision anything outside of their local community. Sometimes you have to uproot and go where the work is, or train for one of the new technologies. Lot's of flexibility in the job market, but the individual must also be flexible.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It seems to me that people are pretty happy at the weekend, and on holiday, but can feel pretty crap when contemplating going to work.

Personally, your view doesn't hold up. When I was unemployed I was pretty happy with my state. My problem was money, not enjoyment in recreational time.

You can have purpose and an enjoyable life without the threat of poverty.

I think you might have a different perspective about work than men do.

 

[Sketcher]

Well why not just work 6 or 7 days then? I bet enslaving people might increase profit? Is it okay to bow down to companies on the shrine of profit?

Why have works hours and days decreased, but now they can't?

Maybe the company should be forced to a hit in profits, because the economy should work for the people? Again, why can the company afford for people to work 5 days, rather 6? But magically can't do 4?

A few points here:

- My company knows that merely working us to the bone does not help with productivity or long-term sustainability. We're encouraged to get up from our desks every hour or two because breaks help. Furthermore, they also recognize that constantly working 60+ hours can lead to burnout. That burnout makes all the training and on-job experience a sunk cost.

- Mandatory time-and-a-half for every hour worked over 40 makes extra long work weeks expensive. This has incentivized them to discourage 50+ hour work weeks. As in, outside of certain exceptions for very busy months, you would get an e-mail from a higher-up reminding you of this policy if you worked more hours than 50.

- The point of all this is hitting the "sweet spot" between the expenses in what you invest in your labor force and profitable productivity from that labor force.

- People start businesses to make profits. This provides jobs to people which serves them by providing them with money, corporate benefits, an enhanced skill set, and the dignity of having something productive to do. I agree that the best social program is a job. Profit isn't bad, it shouldn't be discouraged.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

- People start businesses to make profits. This provides jobs to people which serves them by providing them with money, corporate benefits, an enhanced skill set, and the dignity of having something productive to do. I agree that the best social program is a job. Profit isn't bad, it shouldn't be discouraged.

Employees can also realize 'profits'. Anything we are able to save above living costs is actually a profit on our labor, with no risky investment. If diligently saved it can add up to an investment sized fund in a short time. We can enhance those profits even more by creatively reducing our living costs.

I knew a guy who worked part time as a bartender to help pay off his mortgage. He was investing that pay at 6 percent, the interest rate on his mortgage.

 

[Dave-W]

- Mandatory time-and-a-half for every hour worked over 40 makes extra long work weeks expensive.

Actually not. The first 40 also includes all your benefits - leave time, insurance, etc. So depending on your salary and the benefits package, overtime pay may actually be CHEAPER per hour.

 

[Sketcher]

Actually not. The first 40 also includes all your benefits - leave time, insurance, etc. So depending on your salary and the benefits package, overtime pay may actually be CHEAPER per hour.

Yet, if you've put in a full day and you're not at 100% anymore, they're paying 150% for a falloff in your productivity if you push yourself too hard.

 

[Dave-W]

Yet, if you've put in a full day and you're not at 100% anymore, they're paying 150% for a falloff in your productivity if you push yourself too hard.

That depends a lot on the industry. In Tool and Die, the productivity curve drops off at about 50 or 55 hours, not 40.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That depends a lot on the industry. In Tool and Die, the productivity curve drops off at about 50 or 55 hours, not 40.

Many unions insist on overtime pay for weekend work. That overtime day is often included in the worker's 40 hour week, so there is no let-off in production. Also most overtime hours aren't very extensive and often infrequent as well. And in the case of skilled work it makes no sense to hire an unskilled part timer for a few infrequent hours.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Basic regular hours could be require by government.

America is no longer a British colony you know.

 

[Paradoxum]

America is no longer a British colony you know.

You'd be better off

(By the way, I do think the US constitution and Declaration of Independence are good things.)

 

[Paradoxum]

I think you might have a different perspective about work than men do.

Okay, is there a reason that shouldn't be considered sexist?

Anyway, why do you say that?

 

[Paradoxum]

So am I. String together some part time jobs. Lot's flexibility in the job market.

I said it's not about flexibility.

Work and money are absolutely necessary in todays' world.

Yes, but working 5 days a week seems a waste of time.

Many do. That's why they go to college.

College doesn't necessarily get the job you want.

The economy does work for everyone. People are just ignorant about how to make it work for themselves. When I got out of high school I went full time at the supermarket I worked for as a student. One of my friends took off for Oklahoma to work in the oil fields. He, unlike me, was willing to leave home for a good job. Many, like those coal miners, can't envision anything outside of their local community. Sometimes you have to uproot and go where the work is, or train for one of the new technologies. Lot's of flexibility in the job market, but the individual must also be flexible.

The economy is structured such that the richest gain from profit, but the average person gains little. This isn't opinion, this fact, and shown in numbers. The economy doesn't work for everyone if it mostly only benefits the richest, which is a fact.

 

[Paradoxum]

Easier said than done. Industry is like college wrestling. No one wants to endlessly train, starve themselves, dehydrate just to make weight....but if they don't, they'll get beaten by someone who does.

Saying we should go to the Moon is easier said than done, so perhaps sending humans to the Moon is impossible.

Yeah...something else will come up right lol? Something of value other than goods and services.

I didn't say that goods or services should be reduced.

It was a point I was trying to make...if the 4 day week is such a grand idea, why not just make it a one day week?

If dieting 1500 calories a day is a good idea, why not eat 15 calories a day?

Anyway, working less over time is a good idea.