LDS Mormon vs Christian

[Rescued One]

Readers, beware!

This is what the LDS teach about the Bible:

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.
26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29
1 Nephi 13

I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (History of the Church, 4:461).

 

[Kiwi Christian]

Readers, beware!

This is what the LDS teach about the Bible:

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.
26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29
1 Nephi 13

I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (History of the Church, 4:461).

Why are you posting? I think i have gone over most of this.

 

[Truly1999]

If you are try

Christian: There is only one God. (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6, 8; 45:5).
Mormon: "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light." (Book of Abraham 4:3).

Christian: God has always been God. (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15).
Mormon: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

Christian: God is a spirit without flesh and bones. (John 4:24; Luke 24:39).
Mormon: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10). "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

Christian: The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe, and that He exists in three eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mormon: The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Christian: Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23).
Mormon: "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).

Christian: Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17).
Mormon: Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

Christian: The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2)
Mormon: Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity).

Christian: Salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God's grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned. (Rom. 11:6).
Mormon: Salvation has a double meaning in Mormonism: universal resurrection and . . . "The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).

Christian: Salvation (forgiveness of sins) is not by works. (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:21).
Mormon: "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements--'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).

Christian: The Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God (2 Tim. 3:16). It is authoritative in all subjects it addresses.
Mormon: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church).

If you are trying to demonstrate that Mormonism is not Christian, I'm not sure how effective it is to take this approach. I say this because belief in Mormonism requires certain leaps of faith, mainly that God appeared to Joseph Smith and handed him the Book of Mormon - or was it two tablets from which was written the Book of Mormon? Either way, as far as I understand, the Book of Mormon was never intended to replace the Bible but to act as further revelation. So, after discussion with Mormon missionaries and possibly a Mormon friend or neighbour, you can make this leap of faith, you don't need to undergo theological examination and you will base your faith upon feeling basic reasoning.

After all, as a Born-Again Christian, supernatural experience of Jesus and God was enough to give my life to Jesus and galvanised me against Mormon persuasion. However, at a low point in my faith, it was so tempting to just blindly believe in the Mormon faith. Along with an overwhelming sense of belonging to a community with endless opportunities, I can see how someone in a more fragile and vulnerable state could decide to end uncertainty and attach themselves to the Mormon faith and family.

 

[Kiwi Christian]

If you are try

If you are trying to demonstrate that Mormonism is not Christian, I'm not sure how effective it is to take this approach. I say this because belief in Mormonism requires certain leaps of faith, mainly that God appeared to Joseph Smith and handed him the Book of Mormon - or was it two tablets from which was written the Book of Mormon? Either way, as far as I understand, the Book of Mormon was never intended to replace the Bible but to act as further revelation. So, after discussion with Mormon missionaries and possibly a Mormon friend or neighbour, you can make this leap of faith, you don't need to undergo theological examination and you will base your faith upon feeling basic reasoning.

After all, as a Born-Again Christian, supernatural experience of Jesus and God was enough to give my life to Jesus and galvanised me against Mormon persuasion. However, at a low point in my faith, it was so tempting to just blindly believe in the Mormon faith. Along with an overwhelming sense of belonging to a community with endless opportunities, I can see how someone in a more fragile and vulnerable state could decide to end uncertainty and attach themselves to the Mormon faith and family.

Thank you for your reply.

"If you are trying to demonstrate that Mormonism is not Christian, I'm not sure how effective it is to take this approach."

Oh, the Bible says we are to test all things against Scripture.

By testing mormonism with the Word of God is the only way to test whether it is Christian or anti-Christian.

"I say this because belief in Mormonism requires certain leaps of faith"


True. Because there is no PROOF or hard evidence that that the book of mormon is true ( except FEELINGS, which is not proof ) or that the plates ever existed ( joe was the ONLY one who PHYSICALLY saw the plates and many of the so-called the "witnesses" were related to him and the language these plates were apparently written in has NEVER been seen ooutside of mormonism ) it DOES require an enormous amount of faith.

"the Book of Mormon was never intended to replace the Bible but to act as further revelation. "

Oh, it is intended to usurp the Bible and is held ABOVE the Bible in mormonism. They say it is another testament of Jesus. But, it is actually a testament of ANOTHER Jesus. a Jesus that is totally foreign to the Bible.

"So, after discussion with Mormon missionaries and possibly a Mormon friend or neighbour"

Total waste of time having a discussion with the missionaries. They are wholly ignorant of key doctrine and their "church"'s history. When pinned down to one topic, mostly run away.


"you don't need to undergo theological examination and you will base your faith upon feeling basic reasoning. "

I dont understand. are you saying a person does NOT have to examine what the mormons tell us, but if it FEELS true or FEELS right, one should throw out what they have been brought up to believe and join them?

" Along with an overwhelming sense of belonging to a community with endless opportunities, I can see how someone in a more fragile and vulnerable state could decide to end uncertainty and attach themselves to the Mormon faith and family."

Yes, been there myself in a similair situation. I didnt know the Bible thought and i wasnt a Christian then, but the friendliness and wanting people to like me and to belong played a huge part. Still, SOMETHING inside me said "no".

I do not understand how ANY Christian that knows his or her Bible can leave the Christian faith and become a mormon.
y

ou d

on't need to undergo theological examination and you will base your faith upon feeling basic reasoning. I dontg

 

[Jane_Doe]

it DOES require an enormous amount of faith.

Like believing that there is a God or that this dude Jesus was the Son of God, and some how come back from the dead, or that this some how has something to do with our post-death fate.

Christianity (including LDS branch) does require a lot of faith.

"the Book of Mormon was never intended to replace the Bible but to act as further revelation. "

Oh, it is intended to usurp the Bible and is held ABOVE the Bible in mormonism. They say it is another testament of Jesus. But, it is actually a testament of ANOTHER Jesus. a Jesus that is totally foreign to the Bible.

The correct statement above is the bolded one.

"So, after discussion with Mormon missionaries and possibly a Mormon friend or neighbour"

Total waste of time having a discussion with the missionaries. They are wholly ignorant of key doctrine and their "church"'s history. When pinned down to one topic, mostly run away.

Hearing what a person believes from that person directly is NEVER a waste of time. All other sources pale.

 

[Rescued One]

Both Mormon and Islam have a sepa4ate holy book they claim to be inspired by God

This violates the last words of Jesus
Revelation 21:20
Anyone who adds to the words of this book will be added to the judgements of God

They have three books in addition to the Bible, and the content of each book is subject to change.

 

[Peter1000]

Both Mormon and Islam have a sepa4ate holy book they claim to be inspired by God

This violates the last words of Jesus
Revelation 21:20
Anyone who adds to the words of this book will be added to the judgements of God

Mormons don't add to the words of the book of Revelations. The other scriptures that we have are stand-alone books. They are not additions to any book.

The bible is just a collection of letters from the apostles and others. The book of Revelations from John the Revelator(??) is actually, a late addition to the bible. If your looking for additions, look at Revelations itself, it was controversial and was not accepted by everyone at the time the bible was put together.

The very first serious collection of NT letters, called the Muratorian Canon only had approximately 22 letters included. It did not include 1 & 2 Peter, James, and Hebrews, and maybe 1 or 2 of the letters of John. It is also possible that the Wisdom of Solomon was included in this Canon. It did include Revelations, which had the famous words, if anyone adds.... So if you are going to be a stickler for consistency, you would be compelled to throw out at least 1 & 2 Peter, James, and Hebrews, because they were later added.

So it is a little complex to go after the Mormons for adding, based on the history of the compilation of the bible. Read it sometime and you will see what I mean, and then never write this silly statement again.

 

[Peter1000]

They have three books in addition to the Bible, and the content of each book is subject to change.

You really don't want to talk about change in a negative way. For then we would have to talk about how many thousands of changes the bible has gone through???

Translation changes
Entire new version changes
Intentional insert changes
Unitentional insert changes
Copy error changes
etc., etc., etc.

But we love the bible and we read it to know that Jesus is our Savior and only through Jesus Christ can we be saved in the KOH.

 

[Peter1000]

That is another thing one must realize when speaking with Mormons. It may sound similar, but it's oftentimes not. "We believe that Jesus is the Son of God" does not tell you that Mormons believe that Jesus is the literal spirit son of Heavenly Father and his spouse, Heavenly Mother.

You are aware that there is biblical scripture that supports the fact that Jesus is the spirit Son of Heavenly Father? Just one. In John 20:17 Jesus teaches us that Jesus indeed has a Father (that makes him a Son) and it also teaches us that Jesus has a God, read it.

To say that Jesus is the Son of God does not tell people that you believe that somehow he shares a his body (of which we can not describe to you) with 2 other Persons.
AND
Just because we say Son of God, know that it is not a traditional begotten Son, as you might think. How can an invisible, incomprehesible, immeasurable, unapproachable, spirit, that is larger than the universe and small enough to have a place in your heart have a Son. So it's not like the Son of God, it is more like, well, I don't know how to explain it to you, but that's what Jesus is.

If you are willing to make fun of Mormon beliefs, you open yourself up.

 

[Rescued One]

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation[IOW, to live in the presence of the three gods for eternity] is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel[Mormonism] and all its covenants; and take upon us the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey[all] His commandments.

1. 
   He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
2. 1.
   We must be baptized.
   
   
3. 2.
   We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
   
4. 3.
   Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
   
   
5. 4.
   We must receive the temple endowment.
   
   
6. 5.
   We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
7. 
   
8. In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:

1. Love God and our neighbors.
   
   
2. 2.
   Keep the commandments.
   
   
3. 3.
   Repent of our wrongdoings.
   
   
4. 4.
   Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
   
   
5. 5.
   Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
   
   
6. 6.
   Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
   
   
7. 7.
   Have family and individual prayers every day.
   
   
8. 8.
   Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
   
   
9. 9.
   Study the scriptures.
   
   
10. 10.
    Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
    

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

Doctrine and Covenants 130
18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Mormons don't add to the words of the book of Revelations. The other scriptures that we have are stand-alone books. They are not additions to any book.

The bible is just a collection of letters from the apostles and others. The book of Revelations from John the Revelator(??) is actually, a late addition to the bible. If your looking for additions, look at Revelations itself, it was controversial and was not accepted by everyone at the time the bible was put together.

The very first serious collection of NT letters, called the Muratorian Canon only had approximately 22 letters included. It did not include 1 & 2 Peter, James, and Hebrews, and maybe 1 or 2 of the letters of John. It is also possible that the Wisdom of Solomon was included in this Canon. It did include Revelations, which had the famous words, if anyone adds.... So if you are going to be a stickler for consistency, you would be compelled to throw out at least 1 & 2 Peter, James, and Hebrews, because they were later added.

So it is a little complex to go after the Mormons for adding, based on the history of the compilation of the bible. Read it sometime and you will see what I mean, and then never write this silly statement again.

So you are saying the book of revelation was not from GOD
that's interesting...i suppose so you can add to the word of God..
Jesus was actually quoting from deuteronomy 4:2
So if you cut out revelation then you have to cut out deuteronomy...
If you do that you should just cut out all of Moses 5 books....
Then maybe just cut out the whole bible and promote Joseph Smith as messiah or God
But you can't do that cause he died....

 

[Jane_Doe]

So you are saying the book of revelation was not from GOD
that's interesting...i suppose so you can add to the word of God..

Clarifying LDS beliefs here: yes the Bible is from God. However, it didn't just fall out of the sky and hit some priest in the head. Rather, it is a collection of books and letters written via revelation received by apostles and other prophets. That's all Peter was pointing out. Which books are accepted in the Bible varies greatly by demonization, ranging from 66 to 82. LDS use the KJV.

God of course can add to God's words.
LDS don't believe man just makes up scripture-- such is a silly and blasphemous idea. Rather, LDS believe that God continues to speak: giving revelation via his apostles/prophets as He did previously and continues to do so (God doesn't change).

Jesus was actually quoting from deuteronomy 4:2
So if you cut out revelation then you have to cut out deuteronomy...
If you do that you should just cut out all of Moses 5 books....

You appear to arguing the LDS perspective for us here.... maybe I'm misunderstand you?

Then maybe just cut out the whole bible and promote Joseph Smith as messiah or God
But you can't do that cause he died....

????

 

[BigDaddy4]

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

When I read this and compare it to Scripture, it doesn't jibe in my mind.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matthew 18:4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 9:48 Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.”

Seems mormonism is all about making themselves better to achieve better status and being "the most". Christianity, and the kingdom of heaven as described in Scripture, are all about humbling themselves and being the "least".

 

[NYCGuy]

You are aware that there is biblical scripture that supports the fact that Jesus is the spirit Son of Heavenly Father? Just one. In John 20:17 Jesus teaches us that Jesus indeed has a Father (that makes him a Son) and it also teaches us that Jesus has a God, read it.

It would be helpful if you could respond to what I actually said. I specifically stated that Mormons believe that Jesus is the literal spirit son of Heavenly Father and His spouse, Heavenly Mother. Please read posts carefully prior to responding.

To say that Jesus is the Son of God does not tell people that you believe that somehow he shares a his body (of which we can not describe to you) with 2 other Persons.

Huh? Who believes that Jesus shares his body with 2 other Persons? Not me, and not Trinitarians.

Perhaps you need to actually understand what we claim to believe before attempting to ridicule it.

AND
Just because we say Son of God, know that it is not a traditional begotten Son, as you might think. How can an invisible, incomprehesible, immeasurable, unapproachable, spirit, that is larger than the universe and small enough to have a place in your heart have a Son. So it's not like the Son of God, it is more like, well, I don't know how to explain it to you, but that's what Jesus is.

Huh? Trinitarians believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son. You're just confusing yourself with ideas and words that you have demonstrated elsewhere to not understand.

If you are willing to make fun of Mormon beliefs, you open yourself up.

Who said I was making fun of Mormon beliefs? I certainly wasn't. The point was, many Mormons will attempt to state or imply some sort of equivalence amongst orthodox Christians and Mormons on certain surface statements (basically, "look, we both believe Jesus is the son of God! We're both Christians!"). However, when we get under that surface, there is certainly no similarity (i.e, it says nothing about Heavenly Father and His eternal spouse, Heavenly Mother, how we are all literal spirit offspring of heavenly parents, etc).

As well, I don't think any Christian here is attempting to show equivalence or agreement between us and Mormons, which defeats your attempt here. And finally, if you are attempting to critique our beliefs, best you actually state what we actually believe, and not your caricature. It doesn't help your case.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

My feeling is the bible was completed long ago. So all these new books and what not that mormons use is not God inspired. Also I remember once being with a friend who was debating (offline) with a mormon and they went back and forth with various points.

My friend basically caught the mormon off guard when he asked the mormon if he was a christian. The mormon said yes. My friend responded:
"Ah, but the issue is clearly framed in our debate. Christianity is rightly defined in terms of "traditional Christian orthodoxy." Thus, we have an objective standard by which to define what is and is not Christianity."

The guy didn't really know how to respond except to sort of walk away from my friend.

Though I am curious about something. If this debate (right now) is taking place on a "non-christian religions" section and the section itself lists mormons as not christian... does this mean the forum believes that too? I'm not really into debating about such things but I am curious about the forums view on it.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Though I am curious about something. If this debate (right now) is taking place on a "non-christian religions" section and the section itself lists mormons as not christian... does this mean the forum believes that too? I'm not really into debating about such things but I am curious about the forums view on it.

In order to be considered "Christian" on CF, you must ratify extra-scriptural documents (namely the Nicene Creed). LDS do not acknowledge the Creeds (as they are not scripture by anyone's ruler) and hence are deemed "non-Christian" by CF.

 

[BigDaddy4]

In order to be considered "Christian" on CF, you must ratify extra-scriptural documents (namely the Nicene Creed). LDS do not acknowledge the Creeds (as they are not scripture by anyone's ruler) and hence are deemed "non-Christian" by CF.

Another mischaracterization by you Jane. Shame on you! The Nicene Creed is based on Scripture, so they cannot be "extra-scriptural". And the lds has 13 Articles of Faith, which is your own "non-Scriptural" creed.

 

[Peter1000]

So you are saying the book of revelation was not from GOD
that's interesting.

I did not say that Revelations is not from God. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I did say that Revelations was debated hotly by the persons that put the Canon of scripture together. Most wanted to include it, some did not. Some thought that the book was not written by John, most did. Read the history, and you will find that to be true.

I for one am happy that they decided to include Revelations in the bible, but some first lists of books in the bible did not include it.

..i suppose so you can add to the word of God..

It looks like 1 & 2 Peter, James, and Hebrews, and 1 of the books of John, and in some cases Revelations were all added to the Word of God later. Have you ever read the history of the Canonization of the bible. It is interesting, but it was a moving target for a while. Letters were being accepted and then dropped, the letter of the Laodecians was lost and aparently not found yet because it is not in the bible, although Paul instructed the letter to be read in all the churches.

Contrary to your false statement, I do not believe in adding to the words of the Book of Revelations. It was the Book of Revelations that made the statement, not the collection of the letters cannonized in the bible. You know that, right????

Again, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price are all books that stand by themselves. They do not add or subtract from any other book. The OT stands on its own. It does not add or subtract from any other book. The NT stands on its own. It does not add or subtract from any other book.

So it seems you have this idea that the Canon was once and for all put together and has never been changed from the first to now. Not true. In fact Revelations is not considered the last book to be written in the chronological order of the letters in the bible. 1,2,3 John is thought to be later than Revelations.

Jesus was actually quoting from deuteronomy 4:2
So if you cut out revelation then you have to cut out deuteronomy...
If you do that you should just cut out all of Moses 5 books....

You are the one that would have to do the cutting. As for Mormons, we believe in all of it the way it stands. So go cutting if you see the need.

Then maybe just cut out the whole bible and promote Joseph Smith as messiah or God
But you can't do that cause he died....

I thought we were talking about adding??? Why are you talking about cutting the whole bible???

For you to even intimate that Mormons should promote JS as messiah or God is the reason that nobody can take you seriously. Even the Christians you talk to know that we do not elevate JS to that level. They know you are out of line, but they let you carry on because you are a good member.

I OTOH will call it like it is. You are very close to blasphemy, and I would be careful with your words. To make a joke about 'you can't do that cause he died' shows a complete lack of respect for God Himself, who BTW died too, for a very good reason, or have you forgot. So start thinking about what you say before you say it again.

 

[Peter1000]

My feeling is the bible was completed long ago. So all these new books and what not that mormons use is not God inspired. Also I remember once being with a friend who was debating (offline) with a mormon and they went back and forth with various points.

My friend basically caught the mormon off guard when he asked the mormon if he was a christian. The mormon said yes. My friend responded:
"Ah, but the issue is clearly framed in our debate. Christianity is rightly defined in terms of "traditional Christian orthodoxy." Thus, we have an objective standard by which to define what is and is not Christianity."

The guy didn't really know how to respond except to sort of walk away from my friend.

Though I am curious about something. If this debate (right now) is taking place on a "non-christian religions" section and the section itself lists mormons as not christian... does this mean the forum believes that too? I'm not really into debating about such things but I am curious about the forums view on it.

I love this forum, because it allows me to express my beliefs. Some obviously do not believe what I do, but that is OK. I love the debate and the things that I learn from all that are contributing to these discussions. So please feel free to say what you will about Mormons or any other subject. Thank you all.

BTW, the bible has a definition of what a Christian is that should trump all other definitions. The bible says that:
....and the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

The definition of the word 'disciple' is: any follower of Christ.
Therefore since you are a follower of Christ, you are a Christian. Since I am a follower of Christ, I am a Christian. This is per the bible. Now do all these Christians believe the same about this Jesus Christ? Heavens no, not even close. But we are all disciples of Christ. We would all freely give our lives for the name of Jesus Christ. We overlook our differences because we are followers of Christ.

But we also defend our position and our beliefs in Jesus Christ, and teach what we believe to be the truth about Christ. Giving all men the right to believe as their conscience dictates.

Your church goes into unbiblical territory by 'adding' words to the bible by adding certain qualifications to the simple bible definition of what a Christian is.

For instance: You would change the bible to say: ....and the disciples that believed that Christ is a Triune God and that all you have to do to be saved is believe in this Triune God, were called Christians first in Antioch.

Do you really want to add words to the bible??

 

[Ironhold]

Another mischaracterization by you Jane. Shame on you! The Nicene Creed is based on Scripture, so they cannot be "extra-scriptural". And the lds has 13 Articles of Faith, which is your own "non-Scriptural" creed.

Actually, the AoF's been included *in* scripture, so...