How did the universe come into existence?

[Aman777]

Impossible, since Adam was made some 10 Billion years BEFORE the last universal common ancestor appeared in the water on Planet Earth. Adam was formed from the dust on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 which was 13.8 Billion years ago in man's time. You have confused Adam, the first Human, with Apes who do not and cannot magically develop Human intelligence from mindless Nature. Earth's Biology is incomplete since Humans were made on another world and came here in an Ark. Amen?

Dogma Hunter finds the above funny. I suppose he doesn't know that Adam was made to live forever and he lived from BEFORE the big bang of our cosmos until the 6th Day when he and Eve were born again Spiritually. Gen 5:1-2 Adam lived for more than 10 Billion years BEFORE the last universal common ancestor appeared in the water on Planet Earth. Wonder if Dogma is also unaware that Christians will REGAIN our perfect bodies and that we will live FOREVER in Heaven with Jesus?

 

[Dave Ellis]

If Adam was a myth, then you would still be looking for a hole to sleep in tonight. ONLY Adam was made with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22 The Scientific Fact that you have the highest intelligence in creation, above ANY other living creature, is evidence that you too, descended from Adam, the first Human, no matter what you think. God Bless you

Complete and utter nonsense. Again, typing the same stuff at me over and over again doesn't make your argument stronger.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Dogma Hunter finds the above funny. I suppose he doesn't know that Adam was made to live forever and he lived from BEFORE the big bang of our cosmos until the 6th Day when he and Eve were born again Spiritually. Gen 5:1-2 Adam lived for more than 10 Billion years BEFORE the last universal common ancestor appeared in the water on Planet Earth. Wonder if Dogma is also unaware that Christians will REGAIN our perfect bodies and that we will live FOREVER in Heaven with Jesus?

Yes. When someone tells me that the "first human" existed even before our universe, I find that to be pretty funny.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So you don't consider Aristotle a reputable source for the laws of logic?

Aristotle's laws of logic are:

1) Law of Contradiction
2) Law of Excluded Middle
3) Principle of Identity

The "law of causality" is not one of Aristotle's three laws. So, try again.

Not hardly near the amount of evidence. Besides the millions of people who claim to have had a relationship with Him,

1) Fallacious appeal to popularity.
2) You're ignoring the multitude of other gods that people have claimed to have a relationship with as well, but you don't believe exist.

there is also ancient historical documents that were written close to the time of events that could only have been accomplished by a being such as God.

Such as? And how do you verify and prove those writings?

And also there is historical evidence that a man claiming to be that Gods son was killed and rose bodily from the dead.

1) No there isn't. In fact we have no independent contemporary evidence that shows he existed at all.
2) Even if a man did rise from the dead, that's still not evidence that god exists. We'd be left with an unexplained phenomenon, jumping to the conclusion that it was god is not warranted without evidence tying god to the phenomenon.

In addition, people that claim that the moral principles of that God were revealed to them and incorporated into lives and their societies have produced the greatest societies in human history, ie Western Civilization. This demonstrates that this God is morally good and He and His people have produced these greatest goods. Which would be expected if He actually existed.

Quite often the religious morality is the viewpoint a society has to be dragged kicking and screaming away from in order to advance into a more civilized society. While no system is perfect, I'd take secular morality over religious morality any day.

Sometimes popularity is correct. The Global warming scientists use it to make their claim. They state that 98% of scientists believe that global warming is real. If 2000 scientists believed a particular fact and only 1 believed a contrary fact, which fact would you most likely believe to be correct?

Sometimes popularity is correct, however something is not correct because it is popular. You're saying the fact a lot of people believe something is evidence that it's true, it's not.

98% of scientists accept climate change because there's an overwhelming preponderance of evidence showing the climate is changing. When a huge majority of people who are experts in a field and are familiar with the evidence agree, that doesn't make them right, however it does provide reason to accept the claim pending further evidence.

One is one that Paul mentioned. He said if it could be proved that Jesus did not rise from the dead then Christianity is false. So if Jesus' body was ever found that would falsify Christianity. But there are other things too. If it was ever discovered that the universe did not have a definite beginning, is not expanding, and is not winding down energetically, those would be strong falsifying evidences against Christianity. Because they are all taught by the Bible.

The bible makes no claims about an expanding universe or one that is cooling. And yes, I know you're going to link some reinterpreted bible verses to support your case, and don't bother. I've heard that one before, and those verses don't say anything of the sort.

No, that is the standard just so story I heard in college 30 years ago. None of the cupping, curling, and gunk turning into a lens has ever been empirically observed occurring. Try again. As I stated earlier all of those so called transitional eyes are exactly the type of eye that each of those organisms need for their particular lifestyle and ecosystem. Something more advanced would be waste for that particular organism in each case or vice versa for a less advanced eye.

The evidence is right there for you to see, if you want to dismiss it because it counters your beliefs, that's your prerogative.

I did and I proved his intent as much as an archeologist proves the intent of a Neanderthal using a scraping rock.

Asserting intent is meaningless when you haven't demonstrated the being in question actually exists, much less what he wants to do.

No, look at all the inventions Da Vinci came up on his own. And great authors of science fiction have created almost entirely imaginary universes on their own. These things would be very different if done by a committee and easily recognizable as such. But this universe points to a single designer yet a diverse designer.

There's no reason to assume this universe points to a designer at all, may it be single or multiple ones.

You have yet to prove that.

Prove that you made a silly argument? Dude, just read it.

Yes, it does it makes a huge difference, without that characteristic in living things the theory of evolution would never have come into existence.

What characteristic are you referring to?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yes. When someone tells me that the "first human" existed even before our universe, I find that to be pretty funny.

Likewise

 

[Aman777]

Complete and utter nonsense. Again, typing the same stuff at me over and over again doesn't make your argument stronger.

Soon, Science will discover that we find life where ever we find liquid water because God commanded it to be so on the 5th Day. Gen 1:20 On some planets we will find life and we will find the sons of God (prehistoric people) on many of them. The prehistoric people of Planet Earth won the lottery and Inherited the unique superior intelligence of Adam, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 when the Ark arrived on our Planet.

Since there was only 1 Ark, we will NOT find intelligent Human life on any other planet. When this discovery is announced, you can tell others that a Creationist showed you this from the Bible. God Bless you

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Soon, Science will discover that we find life where ever we find liquid water because God commanded it to be so on the 5th Day. Gen 1:20 On some planets we will find life and we will find the sons of God (prehistoric people) on many of them. The prehistoric people of Planet Earth won the lottery and Inherited the unique superior intelligence of Adam, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 when the Ark arrived on our Planet.

Since there was only 1 Ark, we will NOT find intelligent Human life on any other planet. When this discovery is announced, you can tell others that a Creationist showed you this from the Bible. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

Yes. When someone tells me that the "first human" existed even before our universe, I find that to be pretty funny.

Why? since Adam's world/firmament was made on the 2nd Day of Creation. Gen 1:8
The present world/firmament was made on the 3rd Day of Creation. Gen 2:4
The FIRST Stars of our Cosmos didn't light up until the 4th Day of Creation. Gen 1:16

Adam was made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:7 in the likeness of Lord God/Jesus, with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22 We know this because Humans speak. It's one of the differences between prehistoric people, who descended from the common ancestor of Apes and Humans, who inherited Adam's superior intelligence. which is like God's. Another is that ONLY Humans and some computers post.

Do you THINK Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes? "Every living creature that moveth" was created from the water on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 and this INCLUDED the common ancestor of Apes. The first Human was made some 9 Billion years, in man's time, BEFORE the common ancestor of Apes descended from the last universal common ancestor which appeared, on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:7 on Planet Earth, some 3.77 Billion years ago, in man's time. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

What?

Don't you know that Adam's world/universe/kosmos was totally destroyed in the Flood? ll Peter 3:6 This means that you are "willingly ignorant" like the Scoffers of the last days. No wonder you are so confused. You actually THINK the Bible teaches that our Planet was the same as Adam's. Don't you?

 

[Aman777]

What?

Don't you know that Adam's world/universe/kosmos was totally destroyed in the Flood? ll Peter 3:6 This means that you are "willingly ignorant" like the Scoffers of the last days. No wonder you are so confused. You actually THINK the Bible teaches that our Planet was the same as Adam's. Don't you?

I don't think it's funny at all since it has confused many. Here is the complete story, with my views in black:

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Unbelievers, atheists, agnostics, or Scoffers, mock the fact that Jesus has not yet returned...and teaching the big Lie that nothing has changed since the beginning.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Grk-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished(Grk-utterly destroyed, totally)

These Scoffers of the last days are willingly ignorant, meaning that someone has told them but they haven't believed...that Adam's firmament/world, the first Heaven, the one that THEN WAS, was completely destroyed in the flood.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Neither will these Scoffers of the last days believe that the Universe which is now is going to be burned. Ask yourself, Am I a Scoffer of the last days?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why?

Because it is hilarious.
Actually, it's not that hilarious because you are actually serious.

Do you THINK Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes?

It's a genetic fact that they did.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Soon, Science will discover that we find life where ever we find liquid water because God commanded it to be so on the 5th Day. Gen 1:20 On some planets we will find life and we will find the sons of God (prehistoric people) on many of them. The prehistoric people of Planet Earth won the lottery and Inherited the unique superior intelligence of Adam, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 when the Ark arrived on our Planet.

Since there was only 1 Ark, we will NOT find intelligent Human life on any other planet. When this discovery is announced, you can tell others that a Creationist showed you this from the Bible. God Bless you

Come back when you have something of substance to present. Empty assertions are not interesting at all.

 

[Aman777]

Because it is hilarious.
Actually, it's not that hilarious because you are actually serious.

It's a genetic fact that they did.

False, since God explained HOW the Humans of today inherited the superior intelligence of Adam, and the genetics of prehistoric people, thousands of years ago.

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men (Adam) began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, Gen 6:2 That the sons of God (prehistoric people) saw the daughters of men (Adam) that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

On our Earth, the grandsons of Noah, like Cain on Adam's Earth, had NO other Humans to marry. In both cases, these Humans (descendants of Adam) produced children with the prehistoric people whose bones we find for Millions of years in the past.

Therefore, today's 7.4 Billion Humans (descendants of Adam) have BOTH Adam's superior intelligence AND the DNA of the sons of God (prehistoric people) who descended from Apes. Now, it's your time to tell us How and When magical evolution produced God's superior intelligence in the descendants of Apes. You CANNOT and IF you try, you will find that ONLY through sex can you change the intelligence inside living creatures. Try again?

 

[Aman777]

Come back when you have something of substance to present. Empty assertions are not interesting at all.

Are you running away? I'm not. All I've seen from any Darwinist here is disagreement with God since NONE of you have presented ANY evidence of the magical evolution of Humans from Apes. You seem to seek the words of men to convince you while ignoring the words of Almighty God. God Bless you

 

[Dave Ellis]

Are you running away? I'm not. All I've seen from any Darwinist here is disagreement with God since NONE of you have presented ANY evidence of the magical evolution of Humans from Apes. You seem to seek the words of men to convince you while ignoring the words of Almighty God. God Bless you

I'm not running away, I'm asking you to provide something of substance. I've told you multiple times that quoting bible verses and providing empty assertions is not convincing, and you just keep coming back with more of the same.

So when you come up with something that actually provides a compelling case, let's see it. What you've been doing so far is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Sure it is. EVERY bit of matter in our Cosmos began with the big bang which happened on God's 3rd Day Gen 2:4 which was some 13.8 Billion years ago, in man's time. The first Stars, which lit up less than a Billion years later, lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 Jesus changed some of the air, dust and water, which God made in the beginning Gen 1:1-2 back into energy, which cooled and formed our entire Universe. If you believe me, ask Albert Einstein.

No, the BB happened on Genesis 1:1. Before Day 1. And no, there is no air in or on stars or the sun. I can't ask Albert Einstein because he is dead, but also he never believed that when he was alive.

ed: *** No, all the evidence points to those verses talking about the same earth, there is and was only one earth, there is no evidence in the bible for more than one earth.

am: False, since ll Peter 3:6 clearly shows that Adam's Earth "perished" which in Greek means destroyed totally.

No, it is plainly referring to the time when the surface of the earth was destroyed by deluge or flood. This was Noahs flood. And obviously it did not mean that the earth was completely destroyed otherwise they never would have landed on Ararat.

am: Genesis 6:13

is God's word to Noah that He is going to destroy the violent people of the first Earth "with the Earth". There are many more Scriptural proofs if you would like me to post them.

By saying "with the earth" He is referring to using the earth and the waters on it as a weapon to destroy all the evil people on the earth. No respected Biblical scholar interprets these verses in the way you do.

ed: *** No, you are confused, the earth was initially without form but over time gravity and other forces used by God caused to earth to coalesce into its present form after billions of years.

am: You have confused God's creation of the heaven/air and ground/dust and the appearance of water, with the formation of the Earth, which took place on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:10

No, the reference to earth in verse 1:10 is referring to dirt or dry land, IOW the continents.

ed: *** A weirdly shaped lake bottom does not prove some kind of brass dome being under the lake.

am: Amen, but the Lake is the only one in the mountains of Ararat where Adam's firmament/world would fit. Adam's world was miles in diameter and the Ark was 450 ft long. Where do you suppose the Ark arrived? If it wasn't in a Lake, it would have broken apart and Noah lived in it for 7 Months AFTER it arrived on our earth.

There was and is only one earth as science has confirmed and as the Bible teaches. We don't know exactly what the Ark landed in. We also don't know if it was damaged when it landed or if it was still intact. Noah could have lived in it whether it was broken or not given how large it was.

ed: *** I think you have confused me with an atheist. I don't believe mindless nature produced apes or their intelligence. Apes do not have Gods superior intelligence. Actually there is scientific evidence that Ravens are more intelligent than apes. And of course humans are far more intelligent than either one.

am: Amen. Adam was made with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22 The ONLY way to obtain Adam's superior intelligence is to INHERIT it from one of his descendants. God Bless you

This seems to be one of the few things we agree on. God bless.

 

[DogmaHunter]

False, since God explained HOW the Humans of today inherited the superior intelligence of Adam, and the genetics of prehistoric people, thousands of years ago.

Contrary to what you believe, a text (any text) does not invalidate actual facts.

Humans having common ancestors with the other great apes is a genetic fact, no matter what any text has to say.

 

[Aman777]

I'm not running away, I'm asking you to provide something of substance. I've told you multiple times that quoting bible verses and providing empty assertions is not convincing, and you just keep coming back with more of the same.

So when you come up with something that actually provides a compelling case, let's see it. What you've been doing so far is a waste of everyone's time.

FYI, Many of the things i post happened long ago, BEFORE education and science made their discoveries. I have posted God's Truth which AGREES with Science and History and you have NOT offered ANY evidence except your own personal opinion that I'm wrong. You have dismissed my evidence on a Christian board by claiming tht God's Truth is NOT evidence. Get real.

 

[Aman777]

No, the BB happened on Genesis 1:1. Before Day 1. And no, there is no air in or on stars or the sun. I can't ask Albert Einstein because he is dead, but also he never believed that when he was alive.

Doesn't agree with the first 3 verses which shows that the "earth" was without form and empty/void. It had NO shape, No form, since there was No God in the physical world YET. Where did the Water come from? which was upon the face of the deep? What is the darkness? What is the light?

What Albert Einstein discovered was that Energy and Mass are two sides of the SAME coin. God lives in a world of Light/Energy and before the first Day, He changed some of that Energy in His world, into air, dust, and water, in the physical world, which could be used to build everything which exists.

*** No, it is plainly referring to the time when the surface of the earth was destroyed by deluge or flood. This was Noahs flood. And obviously it did not mean that the earth was completely destroyed otherwise they never would have landed on Ararat.

It was Adam's firmament/heaven which perished, which is Greek means utterly destroyed, totally. God told Noah He was going to destroy the violent men of Adam's Earth "with the Earth" Gen 6:13

*** By saying "with the earth" He is referring to using the earth and the waters on it as a weapon to destroy all the evil people on the earth. No respected Biblical scholar interprets these verses in the way you do.

That's because they study the views of ancient religious men instead of reading the verses for what they actually say. Only the Christians of the last days, with the increased knowledge of our time can possibly understand. Dan 12:4 The same men whose views you seem to follow later called for the crucifixion of Jesus. Jhn 19:6

*** No, the reference to earth in verse 1:10 is referring to dirt or dry land, IOW the continents.

Not so, since the mountains on Adam's flat Earth were covered when the flood reached a depth of 15 cubits or 22.5 feet. Gen 7:20 Adam's Earth had only 4 Rivers which all had their origin in the Garden. Gen 2:10 Adam's world had NO continents and it was "clean dissolved" in the flood. Isa 24:19 You have confused the world/universe, which is now, with Adam's world, the world/firmament that THEN WAS. 2Pet3:6-7

*** There was and is only one earth as science has confirmed and as the Bible teaches. We don't know exactly what the Ark landed in. We also don't know if it was damaged when it landed or if it was still intact. Noah could have lived in it whether it was broken or not given how large it was.

The Ark was as big as an ocean liner, 450 ft long, 75 feet wide, and 3 stories tall and it appeared in Lake Van Turkey on the SAME 150th day as it was above the highest mountains on Adam's world, Gen 7:24 and Gen 8:4. Noah refused to leave the Ark and stayed for 2 months AFTER he knew the ground was completely dry. Gen 8:14 He refused to come out until God promised to never again "destroy the earth" in a flood. Gen 9:11

***This seems to be one of the few things we agree on. God bless.

God bless you.

 

[Aman777]

Contrary to what you believe, a text (any text) does not invalidate actual facts.

Humans having common ancestors with the other great apes is a genetic fact, no matter what any text has to say.

We inherited the DNA of the great apes from the sons of God (prehistoric people) who were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam). The sons of God married and produced hybrid humans Gen 10:10 with the superior intelligence they inherited from Adam AND the DNA of prehistoric people. The prehistoric people could have children with Humans even though they were NOT Humans. Gen 6:4 They were THEIR kind or the kind the Trinity created from water. Gen 1:21 Humans are HIS kind or the kind Jesus (Lord God) made with His own Hands from the dust of the ground. Gen 2:7 In this manner God has produced some 7.4 Billion living Humans alive today, when there was only 1 Million prehistoric people alive, when the Ark arrived. It's all a part of God's perfect plan for filling Heaven with perfect Humans, made perfect in Christ. God Bless you