How did the universe come into existence?

[Aman777]

Yes, the sun does have an atmosphere but it is not made of air, read your own search article. It is made of plasma and other gases, but no air.

Sure it is. EVERY bit of matter in our Cosmos began with the big bang which happened on God's 3rd Day Gen 2:4 which was some 13.8 Billion years ago, in man's time. The first Stars, which lit up less than a Billion years later, lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 Jesus changed some of the air, dust and water, which God made in the beginning Gen 1:1-2 back into energy, which cooled and formed our entire Universe. If you believe me, ask Albert Einstein.

*** No, all the evidence points to those verses talking about the same earth, there is and was only one earth, there is no evidence in the bible for more than one earth.

False, since ll Peter 3:6 clearly shows that Adam's Earth "perished" which in Greek means destroyed totally. Genesis 6:13 is God's word to Noah that He is going to destroy the violent people of the first Earth "with the Earth". There are many more Scriptural proofs if you would like me to post them.

*** No, you are confused, the earth was initially without form but over time gravity and other forces used by God caused to earth to coalesce into its present form after billions of years.

You have confused God's creation of the heaven/air and ground/dust and the appearance of water, with the formation of the Earth, which took place on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:10

*** A weirdly shaped lake bottom does not prove some kind of brass dome being under the lake.

Amen, but the Lake is the only one in the mountains of Ararat where Adam's firmament/world would fit. Adam's world was miles in diameter and the Ark was 450 ft long. Where do you suppose the Ark arrived? If it wasn't in a Lake, it would have broken apart and Noah lived in it for 7 Months AFTER it arrived on our earth.

*** I think you are confused with an atheist. I don't believe mindless nature produced apes or their intelligence. Apes do not have Gods superior intelligence. Actually there is scientific evidence that Ravens are more intelligent than apes. And of course humans are far more intelligent than either one.

Amen. Adam was made with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22 The ONLY way to obtain Adam's superior intelligence is to INHERIT it from one of his descendants. God Bless you

 

[Peter1000]

The problem is you're looking at our modern eye as an "end goal", whereas there is no end goal when it comes to evolution. There is just change over time guided by things like natural selection, genetic drift, etc.

If the eye those species have is good enough for them to reliably pass their genes along, there's no selection pressure for the eye to improve to the level of a squid eye.

On that note, squids actually have better eyes than we do. When you look at the human eye, look at how many people are near or far sighted and require glasses to see anything reliably. That's not to mention the human eye is not designed efficiently, and every eye has a blind spot where the optic nerve connects.

That's not the mark of an intelligent designer, that's the mark of natural processes. Our eyes are flawed, but they work good enough to give us a survival advantage on a number of fronts.

The intermediary eyes shown in the video have been around for millions of years. Why have they not evolved to a more superior eye? They have evloved to the intermediary stage, thousands to millions of years ago, what stopped them?

Why are there superior eyes in the midst of intermediary (inferior) eyes?

If the squid has such perfect eyes, why does the squid not dominate the oceans?

Certainly their superior eye should give them a much greater advantage than all other species. With their superior eye, why have they not built a city yet? Why have they not figured out a more advanced way of getting away from their enemies than to spread ink all over the place? Seems like they don't want to take advantage of their superior eye. Maybe the natural selection process has not worked for the squid.

It seems like Dawkins is off his A game with regard to the eye. He tries to make it sound like it is no big deal. Just a simple bending of the paper and you go from light sensing cells to pinpoint vision, way simple says professor Dawkins. He just loves evolution, he's just a simple bumkin.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

If the squid has such perfect eyes, why does the squid not dominate the oceans?

Certainly their superior eye should give them a much greater advantage than all other species. With their superior eye, why have they not built a city yet?

Checkmate, atheists.

 

[Ed1wolf]

...but the question was not "Does your wife love you?", but "Does your wife exist?", in the first place.

I am just stating that experience IS evidence for many things. How do you know I exist?

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>It is when it agrees in every way with every discovery of mankind. Faith plus fact equals God's Truth. Can you give us an example of the "wild claims" I have made? Just because it's different from what you thought, you judge it to be "wild"? I post of the agreement of Scripture science and history, detailed by God Himself, more than 3,000 years ago. If you don't agree, then show me my errors and we both can learn. Amen?

Fact equals truth, faith is irrelevant. Likewise there's no such thing as "scripture science".

Are you trying to tell us that when God's word of 3k years ago AGREES with the recent discoveries of Science, it's irrelevant? Does it change Science? Of course not. It confirms it and proves that only God could have authored Genesis.

*** As for wild claims, literally almost every claim you made in your post is entirely different from the scientific findings, and you have nothing to prove your claims at all. It's just as simple as that. Your entire post is unsupported.

Genesis 1:21 tells us that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from WATER. Science discovered the SAME thing last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/science/last-universal-ancestor.html
Jul 25, 2016 -

Now, it's your time to prove this wrong. Faith plus Fact equals God's Truth which could ONLY have been known by God more than 3k years ago. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

I don't have faith, I have evidence.

False. You have a flawed Theory and that's all. A good example is the FACT that No evolutionist can tell us the process by which Apes changed into Humans. I don't mean the wild speculation that they magically evolved, but actual evidence that mindless Nature put superior intelligence inside Apes. In order to accept your incomplete ToE, you MUST explain HOW Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 got inside Apes on our planet since Adam NEVER took a step on Planet Earth. That's God's literal Truth of Genesis and you cannot refute it.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

False. You have a flawed Theory and that's all. A good example is the FACT that No evolutionist can tell us the process by which Apes changed into Humans. I don't mean the wild speculation that they magically evolved, but actual evidence that mindless Nature put superior intelligence inside Apes. In order to accept your incomplete ToE, you MUST explain HOW Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 got inside Apes on our planet since Adam NEVER took a step on Planet Earth. That's God's literal Truth of Genesis and you cannot refute it.

I don't understand the question. Humans fall under the category of "ape." Can you rephrase this?

 

[Aman777]

I don't understand the question. Humans fall under the category of "ape." Can you rephrase this?

That's the misunderstanding of today's Scientists who classify prehistoric people as Humans, the descendants of Adam, who never took a step on our Earth. Prehistoric people (sons of God) were made the 5th Day from WATER (3.77 Billion years ago in man's time) by God the Trinity. Gen 1:21 Humans (descendants of Adam) were made the 3rd Day from the GROUND by Lord God/Jesus. Gen 2:7 This was BEFORE the big bang of our Cosmos which was made late on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 since the FIRST Stars did not light up until the 4th Day, Gen 1:16 which was less than a Billion years later, according to Astronomers. https://phys.org › Astronomy & Space › Astronomy The sons of God (prehistoric people) descended with modification from the common ancestor of Apes BUT they were NOT Humans. God Bless you

 

[Dave Ellis]

The intermediary eyes shown in the video have been around for millions of years. Why have they not evolved to a more superior eye? They have evloved to the intermediary stage, thousands to millions of years ago, what stopped them?

Why are there superior eyes in the midst of intermediary (inferior) eyes?

If the squid has such perfect eyes, why does the squid not dominate the oceans?

Certainly their superior eye should give them a much greater advantage than all other species. With their superior eye, why have they not built a city yet? Why have they not figured out a more advanced way of getting away from their enemies than to spread ink all over the place? Seems like they don't want to take advantage of their superior eye. Maybe the natural selection process has not worked for the squid.

It seems like Dawkins is off his A game with regard to the eye. He tries to make it sound like it is no big deal. Just a simple bending of the paper and you go from light sensing cells to pinpoint vision, way simple says professor Dawkins. He just loves evolution, he's just a simple bumkin.

Because, again, you're looking at it as an end goal when it's not. If their current eyes are good enough for their purposes, there's no pressure to evolve better eyes.

Likewsie, there's a lot more that goes into a species than how good their eyes are. Just because they see very well doesn't mean they're going to dominate the world.... The fact you have to overblow everything as you are shows you don't have much of a defense. This is a simple process for which we have mountains of evidence. We know it happened, and how it happened. Deal with it.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Aman:>>It is when it agrees in every way with every discovery of mankind. Faith plus fact equals God's Truth. Can you give us an example of the "wild claims" I have made? Just because it's different from what you thought, you judge it to be "wild"? I post of the agreement of Scripture science and history, detailed by God Himself, more than 3,000 years ago. If you don't agree, then show me my errors and we both can learn. Amen?



Are you trying to tell us that when God's word of 3k years ago AGREES with the recent discoveries of Science, it's irrelevant? Does it change Science? Of course not. It confirms it and proves that only God could have authored Genesis.

*** As for wild claims, literally almost every claim you made in your post is entirely different from the scientific findings, and you have nothing to prove your claims at all. It's just as simple as that. Your entire post is unsupported.

Genesis 1:21 tells us that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from WATER. Science discovered the SAME thing last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/science/last-universal-ancestor.html
Jul 25, 2016 -

Now, it's your time to prove this wrong. Faith plus Fact equals God's Truth which could ONLY have been known by God more than 3k years ago. Amen?

There are plenty of things the bible has clearly wrong, there are some things the bible has right, and there's a mountain of things you can interpret the bible to mean by using language gymnastics.

Just because you can pull a snippet out of the bible and twist it to somehow show some dubious correlation to modern science, doesn't mean the bible is anything special. If the bible was special, we'd have known about those things thousands of years ago, rather than tailoring the bible to say what modern day scientists have discovered.

 

[Dave Ellis]

False. You have a flawed Theory and that's all. A good example is the FACT that No evolutionist can tell us the process by which Apes changed into Humans. I don't mean the wild speculation that they magically evolved, but actual evidence that mindless Nature put superior intelligence inside Apes. In order to accept your incomplete ToE, you MUST explain HOW Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 got inside Apes on our planet since Adam NEVER took a step on Planet Earth. That's God's literal Truth of Genesis and you cannot refute it.

Humans are apes. Read a biology textbook sometime.

 

[Dave Ellis]

That's the misunderstanding of today's Scientists who classify prehistoric people as Humans, the descendants of Adam, who never took a step on our Earth. Prehistoric people (sons of God) were made the 5th Day from WATER (3.77 Billion years ago in man's time) by God the Trinity. Gen 1:21 Humans (descendants of Adam) were made the 3rd Day from the GROUND by Lord God/Jesus. Gen 2:7 This was BEFORE the big bang of our Cosmos which was made late on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 since the FIRST Stars did not light up until the 4th Day, Gen 1:16 which was less than a Billion years later, according to Astronomers. https://phys.org › Astronomy & Space › Astronomy The sons of God (prehistoric people) descended with modification from the common ancestor of Apes BUT they were NOT Humans. God Bless you

You have no right to tell anyone they are misunderstanding science.

 

[Aman777]

There are plenty of things the bible has clearly wrong, there are some things the bible has right, and there's a mountain of things you can interpret the bible to mean by using language gymnastics.

Just because you can pull a snippet out of the bible and twist it to somehow show some dubious correlation to modern science, doesn't mean the bible is anything special. If the bible was special, we'd have known about those things thousands of years ago, rather than tailoring the bible to say what modern day scientists have discovered.

The Bible was authored by God the Holy Spirit from inside the men who penned His words. 2Pe 1:21 It is impossible for God to lie, but really EASY for men to misinterpret what the Supreme Intelligence of Creation told us. Only the Christians of the last days, with the increased knowledge we have available to us, can possibly understand, as God told Daniel. Dan 12:4

A good example is the soon to be discovered Scientific Fact that we live in a Multiverse since God made 1 firmament, which He called "Heaven" on the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 AND He made other HeavenS, the next Day, on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4. That makes a Multiverse consisting of at least 3 Heavens. Be sure to listen for the announcement and tell your friends a Creationist told you first. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

Humans are apes. Read a biology textbook sometime.

Impossible, since Adam was made some 10 Billion years BEFORE the last universal common ancestor appeared in the water on Planet Earth. Adam was formed from the dust on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 which was 13.8 Billion years ago in man's time. You have confused Adam, the first Human, with Apes who do not and cannot magically develop Human intelligence from mindless Nature. Earth's Biology is incomplete since Humans were made on another world and came here in an Ark. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

You have no right to tell anyone they are misunderstanding science.

Sure I do since it's True. Today's incomplete ToE falsely supposes that Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. This is totally false since Humans (descendants of Adam) were made long BEFORE the common ancestor of Apes. It's NOT people who have classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans (descendants of Adam) it's the godless men who first dreamed up the false ToE. Read ll Peter 3:3-7 which tells of the Scoffers/unbelievers of the last days who don't believe that Adam's world was totally destroyed in the flood. Humans had our origin on another world. That's God's literal Truth Scripturally. God Bless you

 

[Dave Ellis]

Impossible, since Adam was made some 10 Billion years BEFORE the last universal common ancestor appeared in the water on Planet Earth. Adam was formed from the dust on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 which was 13.8 Billion years ago in man's time. You have confused Adam, the first Human, with Apes who do not and cannot magically develop Human intelligence from mindless Nature. Earth's Biology is incomplete since Humans were made on another world and came here in an Ark. Amen?

The myths in your holy book are irrelevant to what really happened.

Come back with some actual evidence. Quoting the bible at me is a complete waste of time.

 

[Aman777]

The myths in your holy book are irrelevant to what really happened.

Come back with some actual evidence. Quoting the bible at me is a complete waste of time.

If Adam was a myth, then you would still be looking for a hole to sleep in tonight. ONLY Adam was made with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22 The Scientific Fact that you have the highest intelligence in creation, above ANY other living creature, is evidence that you too, descended from Adam, the first Human, no matter what you think. God Bless you

 

[Ed1wolf]

Look up any reputable source detailing the laws of logic, you won't find "the law of causality" in there.

So you don't consider Aristotle a reputable source for the laws of logic?

de: No, the point is my ad hoc being has exactly the same amount of evidence as your god does. That should be a problem for you. That's not to say that many interpretations, excuses and beliefs regarding the Christian god also come from an ad hoc basis. Just look at some of the rather wild claims on this forum.

Not hardly near the amount of evidence. Besides the millions of people who claim to have had a relationship with Him, there is also ancient historical documents that were written close to the time of events that could only have been accomplished by a being such as God. And also there is historical evidence that a man claiming to be that Gods son was killed and rose bodily from the dead. In addition, people that claim that the moral principles of that God were revealed to them and incorporated into lives and their societies have produced the greatest societies in human history, ie Western Civilization. This demonstrates that this God is morally good and He and His people have produced these greatest goods. Which would be expected if He actually existed.

de: As for people claiming to have a relationship for 2000 years, that's irrelevant. Not only is it an appeal to popularity fallacy, however there's been people claiming to have relationships with other mutually exclusive gods for ages as well, some even longer than 2000 years (i.e. Hinduism).

Sometimes popularity is correct. The Global warming scientists use it to make their claim. They state that 98% of scientists believe that global warming is real. If 2000 scientists believed a particular fact and only 1 believed a contrary fact, which fact would you most likely believe to be correct?

de: As for your last claim, how is the Christian worldview testable, and Christianity and god falsifiable? If you can actually provide something along those lines, we'll be in for a very interesting discussion.

One is one that Paul mentioned. He said if it could be proved that Jesus did not rise from the dead then Christianity is false. So if Jesus' body was ever found that would falsify Christianity. But there are other things too. If it was ever discovered that the universe did not have a definite beginning, is not expanding, and is not winding down energetically, those would be strong falsifying evidences against Christianity. Because they are all taught by the Bible.

de:

Here's a relatively short video detailing the evolution of the eye, showing intermediate stages in the eyes development in species that are still alive today.

No, that is the standard just so story I heard in college 30 years ago. None of the cupping, curling, and gunk turning into a lens has ever been empirically observed occurring. Try again. As I stated earlier all of those so called transitional eyes are exactly the type of eye that each of those organisms need for their particular lifestyle and ecosystem. Something more advanced would be waste for that particular organism in each case or vice versa for a less advanced eye.

de: That's a shifting of the burden of proof. You are claiming that they were designed for a purpose, yet you can't demonstrate a designer or actual purpose. That being said, the video above does give the basics of how a structure like the eye can develop using natural processes.

Your turn to show your designer and prove his intent.

I did and I proved his intent as much as an archeologist proves the intent of a Neanderthal using a scraping rock.

de: Think about any major complex work, it's always been designed and built by committee. It took thousands of people to design the space shuttle, or build the pyramids. The universe, while having an artistic element is largely all about physics, and if it were designed, engineering. Any major engineering work I can think of was not a one man job.

No, look at all the inventions Da Vinci came up on his own. And great authors of science fiction have created almost entirely imaginary universes on their own. These things would be very different if done by a committee and easily recognizable as such. But this universe points to a single designer yet a diverse designer.

de; Regardless, it's a silly argument anyway.

You have yet to prove that.

de: Interpersonal relationships may be a problem, however there's no reason why someone with multiple personality disorder couldn't have well organized personalities.

I think most psychiatrists would disagree with you as a general rule.

de: Not really

And that doesn't really matter much.

Yes, it does it makes a huge difference, without that characteristic in living things the theory of evolution would never have come into existence.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

As I stated earlier all of those so called transitional eyes are exactly the type of eye that each of those organisms need for their particular lifestyle and ecosystem. Something more advanced would be waste for that particular organism in each case or vice versa for a less advanced eye.

I love this because you are so painfully close to describing evolution here.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I am aware of only 2 possible answers to this question.

You have a poor imagination, it seems to me.

1) A random chance happening.
2) A Superior Being that had the knowledge to create.

3. an eternal unicorn farting
4. an inevitable consequence of quantum mechanics
5. a multiverse producing space-times into infinity
6. an eternally expanding-contracting single universe
7. ...

The question is: Is there any other possible ways the universe could have come into existence besides the 2 ways that I have given above?

Yes. And the amount of "possibilities" is potentially infinite, really just limited by your own imagination.