Non denominational?

[Sam91]

Was on another thread about denominations and was going to post what I wrote below but realised it would be off topic so guess I'm starting a thread.
Is anyone else non-denominational but attending a denominational church? What makes you so?

I think all denominations probably have it wrong. I don't see any of us living the life of the early church. I think we are all of the world too much and we should all gear ourselves towards becoming more active in the community, spreading the gospel, helping each other more and actually serving. Those who can. Those who can't should be doing what they can... prayer is an important ministry too.

I think its time we should all be measuring ourselves against scripture and walking the way Jesus said. The money we have been given from God for example, we should start thinking how we can put it to God's service instead of our own. This is what I feel is important, not denominations, not debating creation etc.

I'm not there yet but making changes to go in that direction. I think as soon as I have means to be child free sometimes I plan to use it immediately to get into some way of service.

 

[Saint Beloved]

God bless yah.
I totally agree lets get back to God.
Back to the early church model based on the teachings of Jesus not our own inclinations and preferences and closer to Peter's and Paul's instructional letters.
Back to community!

 

[Sam91]

God bless ya

And you, abundantly.

 

[TaylorSexton]

You do know that the early Church debated fiercely and near constantly about doctrine, right? Doctrine matters, because doctrine is the foundation of proper practice. The Apostles understood and taught this; their letters almost universally begin with doctrine and move into practice, because the former is the foundation of the latter. There is no such thing as right doctrine without right practice, and there is no such thing as right practice without right doctrine; they are an inseparable entity.

I understand the frustrations we have about denominationalism; believe me, I get it. We split over trivial and tertiary matters far too often. However, many of the denominations we have exist precisely because of irreconcilable gospel issues. For example, the split between Rome and Protestantism is a breach that cannot be repaired without a serious examination of doctrine (which has been going on for centuries), because the two entities preach entirely different gospels.

Too often I fear these complaints drift too far into the "doctrine vs. practice" realm. If we are going to be biblical, we need to be concerned about doctrine and practice, not one or the other. As I said before, you cannot have one without having both contemporaneously.

 

[Sam91]

You do know that the early Church debated fiercely and near constantly about doctrine, right? Doctrine matters, because doctrine is the foundation of proper practice. The Apostles understood and taught this; their letters almost universally begin with doctrine and move into practice, because the former is the foundation of the latter. There is no such thing as right doctrine without right practice, and there is no such thing as right practice without right doctrine; they are an inseparable entity.

I understand the frustrations we have about denominationalism; believe me, I get it. We split over trivial and tertiary matters far too often. However, many of the denominations we have exist precisely because of irreconcilable gospel issues. For example, the split between Rome and Protestantism is a breach that cannot be repaired without a serious examination of doctrine (which has been going on for centuries), because the two entities preach entirely different gospels.

Too often I fear these complaints drift too far into the "doctrine vs. practice" realm. If we are going to be biblical, we need to be concerned about doctrine and practice, not one or the other. As I said before, you cannot have one without having both contemporaneously.

So did the pharisees. They debated the law and practised the wrong points and missing the point of it, so much so they couldn't accept the Messiah. The Bible warns against arguing over scripture and I doubt any of us should without practising what Jesus told us to be first.

 

[Saint Beloved]

You do know that the early Church debated fiercely and near constantly about doctrine, right? Doctrine matters, because doctrine is the foundation of proper practice. The Apostles understood and taught this; their letters almost universally begin with doctrine and move into practice, because the former is the foundation of the latter. There is no such thing as right doctrine without right practice, and there is no such thing as right practice without right doctrine; they are an inseparable entity.

I understand the frustrations we have about denominationalism; believe me, I get it. We split over trivial and tertiary matters far too often. However, many of the denominations we have exist precisely because of irreconcilable gospel issues. For example, the split between Rome and Protestantism is a breach that cannot be repaired without a serious examination of doctrine (which has been going on for centuries), because the two entities preach entirely different gospels.

Too often I fear these complaints drift too far into the "doctrine vs. practice" realm. If we are going to be biblical, we need to be concerned about doctrine and practice, not one or the other. As I said before, you cannot have one without having both contemporaneously.

Hi Taylor,

I know a brief amount of church history I know it wasn't all happy clappy as is often romanticised but not a comprehensive knowledge of the subject by any means.
Getting ego out of the church would be a blessing.

 

[TaylorSexton]

So did the pharisees. They debated the law and practised the wrong points and missing the point of it, so much so they couldn't accept the Messiah. The Bible warns against arguing over scripture and I doubt any of us should without practising what Jesus told us to be first.

Yes, they were wrong because, as you said, they missed the point of it, not merely because they debated over it. Jesus himself even argued and debated with them! Nowhere in Scripture are we told that we should not argue over theology. The issue is how we argue, not whether we argue; the church at large is terribly mistaken to conflate these two. Rather, we are told plainly, "Contend [defend, argue, fight] for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

You are absolutely right in saying that we should practice what "Jesus told us to be first." However, by saying this you are only proving my point. Notice you said that we should "practice [action] what Jesus told [theology] us to be first." Even by your own statement you show how it is necessary that theology be the foundation of practice. After all, if we aren't clear about what Jesus said (which is not just contained in the Gospels, but all of Scripture, because he breathed it), how can we practice it?

 

[Sam91]

I just think for the majority of us we aren't just called to read the Bible, attend Church, Church bible classes and pray and fulfill the criteria the world expects to see in a professing Christian. We should really be loving more and more, getting our hands dirty actually on the look out for situations to help. Like in James 2:15-16 I know it says brothers and sister but I felt guilty after giving a homeless man 2 sausage rolls, asking him what he wants to drink, going off to buy him a coffee and a fudge doughnut. I gave him a half pack of baby wipes too as his hands were dirty and told him to take care and God bless. I don't think this is enough. It's not helping is it? I meant to find out details of all the local places he could get shelter etc and food so I could hand out sheets.

If we have homeless on our streets we really can't be doing enough now can we?

 

[Sam91]

Yes, they were wrong because, as you said, they missed the point of it, not merely because they debated over it. Jesus himself even argued and debated with them! Nowhere in Scripture are we told that we should not argue over theology. The issue is how we argue, not whether we argue; the church at large is terribly mistaken to conflate these two. Rather, we are told plainly, "Contend [defend, argue, fight] for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

You are absolutely right in saying that we should practice what "Jesus told us to be first." However, by saying this you are only proving my point. Notice you said that we should "practice [action] what Jesus told [theology] us to be first." Even by your own statement you show how it is necessary that theology be the foundation of practice. After all, if we aren't clear about what Jesus said (which is not just contained in the Gospels, but all of Scripture, because he breathed it), how can we practice it?

I'm not saying we shouldn't clarify things and learn from others. I'm just saying debating doesn't get us closer to God. I am sure it has brought us all away from Him by not asking Him to reveal His will. For debating when we could have been walking His ways. Titus 3:9

 

[Saint Beloved]

I just think for the majority of us we aren't just called to read the Bible, attend Church, Church bible classes and pray and fulfill the criteria the world expects to see in a professing Christian. We should really be loving more and more, getting our hands dirty actually on the look out for situations to help. Like in James 2 15-16 I know it says brothers and sister but I felt guilty after giving a homeless man 2 sausage rolls, asking him what he wants to drink, going off to buy him a coffee and a fudge doughnut. I gave him a half pack of baby wipes too as his hands were dirty and told him to take care and God bless. I don't think this is enough. It's not helping is it? I meant to find out details of all the local places he could get shelter etc and food so I could hand out sheets.

If we have homeless on our streets we really can't be doing enough now can we?

Mark 14:7
The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I just think for the majority of us we aren't just called to read the Bible, attend Church, Church bible classes and pray and fulfill the criteria the world expects to see in a professing Christian. We should really be loving more and more, getting our hands dirty actually on the look out for situations to help. Like in James 2 15-16 I know it says brothers and sister but I felt guilty after giving a homeless man 2 sausage rolls, asking him what he wants to drink, going off to buy him a coffee and a fudge doughnut. I gave him a half pack of baby wipes too as his hands were dirty and told him to take care and God bless. I don't think this is enough. It's not helping is it? I meant to find out details of all the local places he could get shelter etc and food so I could hand out sheets.

If we have homeless on our streets we really can't be doing enough now can we?

The only point I was trying to make is that our choice is not doctrine or practice, but between right and wrong doctrine and practice.

 

[Sam91]

The only point I was trying to make is that our choice is not doctrine or practice, but between right and wrong doctrine and practice.

I agree on your main point. I disagree with too much debating when it leads to barriers rather than unity amongst God's children

 

[Saint Beloved]

The only point I was trying to make is that our choice is not doctrine or practice, but between right and wrong doctrine and practice.

I think we all get that but thank you for clarifying it for the benefit of others coming across this thread.
God bless you, Taylor.
Good luck with your education and calling.

 

[Sam91]

Mark 14:7
The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.

Yeah and we're to help. That was specifically about showing the priority to the Lord in the right time and place.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I'm not saying we shouldn't clarify things and learn from others. I'm just saying debating doesn't get us closer to God. I am sure it has brought us all away from Him by not asking Him to reveal His will. For debating when we could have been walking His ways. Titus 3:9

But, see, again you are proving my point. You keep talking about God's "will" and "ways," yet you have failed to realize that those things have to be defined. They are not just nebulous feelings hanging out in the air; they are within Scripture. You are creating a false dichotomy between knowing God's will and practicing God's will. They are the same thing. You keep saying, "We just need to stop debating and start obeying." That sounds nice, except when you stop debating (in other words, when you start disobeying Jude 3), then the truth cannot be known, because there are many antichrists in the world.

There is no such thing as proper practice without proper doctrine; and proper doctrine must be debated and defended, otherwise it is lost.

 

[Sam91]

This was meant to be a nice thread about wondering why non demoninationals call themself so. My point is I think we all have it wrong. Instead it seems to be about debating scripture? I think everyone should read and get to know there bible and learn from others a little but ask God for clarfication. Reading the Bible you get to know it. I would rather get to know the person and how Christ is working their life rather than an exact run down of their beliefs and theologies. Of course if someone saw an error in my interpretation of scripture I would welcome their opinion. If someone saw me acting wrong I would appreciate that too.

Not all of us are called to be teachers. I hope I'm not as thats a lot of responsibility.

 

[Sam91]

But, see, again you are proving my point. You keep talking about God's "will" and "ways," yet you have failed to realize that those things have to be defined. They are not just nebulous feelings hanging out in the air; they are within Scripture. You are creating a false dichotomy between knowing God's will and practicing God's will. They are the same thing. You keep saying, "We just need to stop debating and start obeying." That sounds nice, except when you stop debating (in other words, when you start disobeying Jude 3), then the truth cannot be known, because there are many antichrists in the world.

There is no such thing as proper practice without proper doctrine; and proper doctrine must be debated and defended, otherwise it is lost.

Jesus made it simple. It's the Church making it hard. We have the Holy Spirit to teach.

Proverbs 3:5-7
1 John 2:27

You see we will possibly keep disageeing as I see all this debating as fruitless. Knowledge upon knowledge can only draw one away from God if they are not called to it. Pastors, priests etc, those who need to answer deep questions should be well versed to answer intricasies. But it's not really a relevant topic for me personally you see. I think every Christian should get to know their Bibles inside out tho, but thats a tool many in the early Church did not have.

 

[TaylorSexton]

This was meant to be a nice thread about wondering why non demoninationals call themself so. My point is I think we all have it wrong. Instead it seems to be about debating scripture? I think everyone should read and get to know there bible and learn from others a little but ask God for clarfication. Reading the Bible you get to know it. I would rather get to know the person and how Christ is working their life rather than an exact run down of their beliefs and theoligies. Of course if someone saw an error in my interpretation of scripture I would welcome their opinion. If someone saw me acting wrong I would appreciate that too.

Not all of us are called to be teachers. I hope I'm not as thats a lot of responsibility.

Jesus made it simple. It's the Church making it hard. We have the Holy Spirit to teach.

Proverbs 3:5-7
1 John 2:27

You see we will possibly keep disageeing as I see all this debating as fruitless. Knowledge upon knowledge can only draw one away from God if they are not called to it. Pastors, priests etc, those who need to answer deep questions should be well versed to answer intricasies. But it's not really a relevant topic for me personally you see. I think every Christian should get to know their Bibles inside out tho, but thats a tool many in the early Church did not have.

You keep saying you just want to get back to the early Church, yet neither the early Church nor Scripture would support what you are advocating. For every single writer of Scripture, and for every single major theologian of the early Church, doctrine cannot be separated from practice. What you are advocating simply cannot be done. God said, "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge." You are right, there is a knowledge that leads to death, but there is also a zeal without knowledge that leads to the same place. There is error at every extreme. Again, you are setting up a false dichotomy between knowledge and practice, when Scripture teaches everywhere that they are one in the same.

Besides, if you are so disillusioned by debate, and if you truly believe debate only leads away from God (only ungodly debate does, in reality), why then did you post a controversial thesis, arguing for it and with others, in a forum entitled "Discussion and Debate"? I am not pointing fingers, but I am trying to show you that your own words and practice show that, if only subconsciously, you know that debate over correct doctrine is necessary for proper practice of the truth, because truth that is not known or muddled cannot be practiced. If debate over doctrine were so wrong, than Paul was wicked in his confronting Peter.

 

[Sam91]

Because I don't know which forums are for what and hardly ever make threads If you don't understand fully the terms it is hard to distinguish.

I saw everyone being light hearted on another thread here and not using all these phrases I know not like dichotomy and nebulous (used these as they were in your post above) and decided that this must be the relevant place to get to know opinions without a big debate.

I don't think I'm going to bother setting up a thread again. It's too time consuming. I normally just create threads to post an inspirational link to praise or ask a simple question if I need. Hehe.

 

[TaylorSexton]

Because I don't know which forums are for what and hardly ever make threads If you don't understand fully the terms it is hard to distinguish.

I saw everyone being light hearted on another thread here and not using all these phrases I know not like dichotomy and nebulous (used these as they were in your post above) and decided that must be the relevant place to get to know opinions without a big debate.

I don't think I'm going to bother setting up a thread again. It's too time consuming. I try to just post an inspirational link to praise or ask a simple questin if I need. Hehe.

I'm certainly not trying to be contentious, friend, or to confuse you, or to batter you with big words or phrases. I certainly understand (and agree with!) the many frustrations you have with the church at large. Yes, we do tend to emphasize doctrine over practice. That is a huge problem. However, the way to address a problem in the Church is not merely to swing the pendulum to the other end of the arc, but to evaluate our current practices and thoughts—all of them—with Scripture. And, indeed, we see that Scripture poses absolutely no dichotomy between doctrine and practice. In the eyes of Scripture, if your practice is sub-par, then your theology is of necessity deficient; if your theology is deficient, then their is no way your practice will be up to par. Theology and practice are so tightly interwoven that splitting them up, as if we can just choose one or the other, is simply mistaken—it does not conform to Scripture or reality.

Again, I think you have a great heart, from what I have read in this thread. You have absolutely legitimate complaints. I just want to ensure that we, as brothers, seek to exercise God-given wisdom and balance, not man-inspired reaction, in correcting these problems. I am very sorry if my posts came across as anything else.

May God bless you, my friend.