Limited vs unlimited atonement?

[EmSw]

Your claim is refuted from the Scriptures that refute your views.

People will be cast into the lake of fire for NOT having their names in the Book of Life. That means they never received eternal life. And Jesus was clear on how to have eternal life; to believe in Him for it.

Your 'struggling' is showing.

 

[EmSw]

OK, prove that "enter into life" means gain eternal life.

What does 'enter into life' mean in the following passage?

Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Notice it says "if you love Me", not "if you want to be saved" or "if you want eternal life".

Do you love Him? If so, you are commanded to do something.

This is true for many believers. They don't have truth in them.

Oh, you forgot they are liars also. Do you want to tell us where ALL liars go?

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, AND ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[EmSw]

Not adding at all. At the end of His discourse in Matthew 5, Jesus said for us to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. It's right there as I posted earlier in big bold red letters.

Do you ever read a single passage in context? I do know you like to add things to passages.

Matthew 5
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now read these passages and tell us what the context of 'being perfect' is. Does it say ONE WORD about the law?

Being perfect in these verses is loving your enemies, blessing them that curse you, doing good to them that hate you, and praying for those who despitefully use you, just as the Father makes the sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and unjust.

As you present the path of one's salvation as law keeping, according to Matthew 5 you must keep it perfectly as the Father in Heaven is perfect.

I will say you are consistent. You again have added to God's word. It says nothing about the law.

The apostle James picks up on this as well:

James 2:10: King James Version (KJV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Again, this says nothing about keeping the law perfectly.

If we go back to Leviticus 16 we see how God instructed Moses to atone for the sins of Israel. This was due to transgression of the law. In the New Covenant Jesus is this perfect sacrifice for sins. All of them.

Sacrifice of humans is murder. It is an abomination to God, and He does not save anyone through murder.

Back to James. If one offends in one point of the law they are guilty of all.

In your theology how does one have their sins blotted out?

I just pointed out God's theology on blood atonement.

Sins are blotted out through repentance for the remission of sins. Perhaps you don't know what remission is. Let me help you out here and show you what Strong's says about remission. Are you ready?

1. release from bondage or imprisonment
2. forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Remission of sins is the release from bondage or imprisonment. Do you know man is a slave to sin? Remission is how he is released from this enslavement.

Remission of sins is the pardon of sins, that is, letting them go as if they had never been committed. It is also the release of the penalty of sin.

Now that you know this, you need to believe this, and quit murdering Jesus on the cross.

 

[EmSw]

I think you have the cart before the horse.

Using your scenario, what if I was doing 55mph in a 25mph school zone, was pulled over and arrested? Then put in jail and not able to post bail? Then at my trial even though I am genuinely and sorrowful for my actions I still cannot pay the fine imposed on me which puts me in jail. Then a total stranger pays my fine without me asking, and I am set free and genuinely thankful to the man who paid my debt to the law.

The man tells me if I truly love him and appreciate his graceful act I will follow the posted speed limits. He then hands me a pair of glasses so I can see the signs better.

Does this release you from driving the speed limit again? Can you go out and speed again, and not worry about getting caught?

 

[redleghunter]

Being perfect in these verses is loving your enemies, blessing them that curse you, doing good to them that hate you, and praying for those who despitefully use you, just as the Father makes the sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and unjust.

We must do so perfectly as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

I omitted the portion of your quote which is not showing the perfect love we are commanded to exhibit.

What now?

 

[redleghunter]

Does this release you from driving the speed limit again? Can you go out and speed again, and not worry about getting caught?

I believe those are questions you must personally deal with in your walk with Christ Jesus.

I say that because only our old nature would think we could use God's Grace as an excuse to sin.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What does 'enter into life' mean in the following passage?

Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

One view:
This enigmatic saying is hyperbolic and hypothetical. If drastic measures could be taken, such as dismemberment, to keep one from sinning, it would be worth it. Self-mutilation and dismemberment would not save them, of course, for the problem is in the heart (15:8-9, 18-20). However, Jesus assumes for the sake of argument that their trust in external restraint from evil would be sufficient to save. The complete useless of such an exercise is plain. That they would trust in externals refeals that those to whom Jesuls directs His remarks are unbelievers. Jesus' words are provocativde and enigmatic, causing one to think and feel more deeply.

Another view:
The Lord was suggesting that any hindrance to faith in Him should be eliminated. The hand, foot, and eye suggest what a erson does, where he goes, and what he gazes on. While the only condition of eternal life is faith in Chrit, a person who keeps himself away fom the message about Jesus and is distracted by various friends and pursuits is unlikely to come to faith. Better to eliminate hindrances that keep one from hearing the saving message than to go through life with one's comfortable status quo and end up in hell.

Do you love Him? If so, you are commanded to do something.

I've never argued against that. But for eternal life, we are to believe in (trust in) Him for saving us.

Oh, you forgot they are liars also. Do you want to tell us where ALL liars go?

Christ died for all sins. Sin is not the basis for going to hell. Sorry you misunderstand Rev 21:8.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, AND ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The key to who ends up in the lake of fire is "unbelieving". To which John adds a number of adjectives.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We must do so perfectly as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

For salvation? Then why did Jesus say that eternal life is given to believers?

 

[EmSw]

We must do so perfectly as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

I omitted the portion of your quote which is not showing the perfect love we are commanded to exhibit.

What now?

You omitted it? Does repentance for remission of sins not fit into your belief?

 

[EmSw]

I believe those are questions you must personally deal with in your walk with Christ Jesus.

I say that because only our old nature would think we could use God's Grace as an excuse to sin.

So, you are guilty again after having someone 'pay the price' for you.

 

[EmSw]

Christ died for all sins. Sin is not the basis for going to hell. Sorry you misunderstand Rev 21:8.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, AND ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The key to who ends up in the lake of fire is "unbelieving". To which John adds a number of adjectives.

So, ALL LIARS do not have their part in the lake of fire. Why not just believe what your heart desires, and don't worry what God's word says; you will be a very happy person that way. You can have your way, and just choose what you want from God's word and make up the rest.

 

[redleghunter]

For salvation? Then why did Jesus say that eternal life is given to believers?

It was a response to the Pelagian view of salvation.

 

[redleghunter]

You omitted it? Does repentance for remission of sins not fit into your belief?

Obviously you missed quite a few of my posts. I quoted Luke 24 in my previous post.

Or was your comment to change the subject?

 

[redleghunter]

So, you are guilty again after having someone 'pay the price' for you.

Where did I say such?

 

[EmSw]

Obviously you missed quite a few of my posts. I quoted Luke 24 in my previous post.

Or was your comment to change the subject?

So, what is it about remission do you not understand?

 

[Marvin Knox]

I see we've let this unbeliever in the vicarious, substitutionary suffering and death of Jesus Christ hijack this thread just as has taken place elsewhere.

It's a shame. But that's what happens over and over again when a forum takes an open, liberal, any theology goes format.

 

[EmSw]

I see we've let this unbeliever hijack the thread just as has taken place elsewhere.

It's a shame. But that's what happens over and over again when a forum takes an open, liberal, any theology goes format.

Aren't you a barrel of laughs? Get over it. If you believe in predestination, quit complaining what has been predestined. You hate your own beliefs.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So, ALL LIARS do not have their part in the lake of fire.

The verse is about all unbelievers having a part in the lake of fire. Because they do not have eternal life. Rev 20:15

Why not just believe what your heart desires

I believe what the Bible says. I don't pick and choose what my heart desires and reject any part as you've done. Because they refute your views.

 

[EmSw]

kapporeth [t,roP;K], or the Mercy Seat...what was its significance in the Mosaic Law?

What did it foreshadow?

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.

Mercy is what He desires, and NOT SACRIFICE!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

B - Jesus died for EVERY sin or He was not the perfect or complete sacrifice...

I guess Jesus wasted His time warning about Hell then.