How to Respond to False Doctrine

[Greg Merrill]

I have read through this thread up to this point and received a lot of good input that is helpful to understand how to respond better in the future to certain "disagreeable posts." Thank you. Lord, help us to remember the "good" advice and council given here.

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

Finding false doctrines on CF is like finding water in the ocean.

It seems to me that the false doctrine of sola scriptura is the one to blame. Pretty much everyone is making an appeal to the bible to support their positions which inadvertently has rendered what the Sacred Scriptures say about themselves meaningless.


Perusing this thread, if everyone is reading the bible for themselves, the Sacred Scriptures aren't useful for teaching, refutation or correction. They're just a cause for dissent and confusion.

The problem becomes even more evident when you consider the three petitions for when a brother sins against you. The third and final petition is not to the bible but to the Church. If I'm a good baptist and the brother who sins against me is a good Lutheran, to whose church should we go?

This thread is just an example of the problems sola scripturists encounter when their self-proclaimed authority to interpret the bible for themselves usurps the authority of the Church.

ALL that we have been given is the word of God and the Word of God, combined with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. But these are MORE than sufficient for faith and the practice thereof. The role of the Church is not to govern the life of the believer--that is the role of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

The Church is the Body of Christ. We are His Hands, Feet, Heart and Mouth in this lost and sinful planet. We are in the "priesthood of all believers" just as the nation of Israel was and will be "a nation of priests". Catholics exaggerate the "dissent and confusion" of believers. We basically all agree on the major essential doctrines of the faith--which are based on the firm teachings of Scripture. Anyone who does not agree on the essential doctrines is not a believer (and here, I am not speaking of such non-essentials as the Pre-Trib or Post-Trib Rapture or the timing of the Second Coming). They should be patiently taught by ANY Christian who is familiar with the essential doctrines and their Scriptural supports. Easy--simple, no need for elaborate, tradition-encrusted ritual. Insisting that "tradition is essential" is how the Pharisees missed salvation by a mile.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I used the word 'argue' as more than a friendly debate.

I avoid 'arguing' over scripture, preferring to understand the other persons view and clarifying where I differ.

If I do see blatant errors which clash completely with scripture I point out that the bible doesn't say it anywhere and what the bible actually states.

Doctrine does indeed need to be meditated upon and discussed in the light of God's Word: sound doctrine glorifies Christ and His work at the Cross, and builds up the believer in Him.

 

[HereIStand]

It's always good to respectfully respond to erroneous doctrine. Yet it's difficult to challenge everything posted on an Internet forum. Leeway must be given online, more so than it would in person.

 

[trackstacks]

Is it an essential doctrine? Does it impose certain weird practices?

 

[tadoflamb]

You guys are so close to the problem that you can't recognize it for yourselves, so an outsider has to point it out to you.

Until sola scripturists begin to recognize a Church with the authority to teach, you're going to keep having the problem of false doctrines. You can't just quote the bible and claim you're inerrant.

 

[drayanna]

I am not so sure you can report a belief that you would personally consider as being wrong or unbiblical. Most threads are for or against a particular Christian doctrine or belief. You cannot report a belief exactly but you can report abusive behavior.

Also, many things that I have come to know in God's Word are strange to most in the world of Christianity. I believe in Conditional Immortality, I believe in Sinless Perfectionism, I believe in New Testament Pacifism, I believe that Jesus made unfermented wine (grape juice) at the wedding at Cana, and I believe that God told Hosea to marry a wife from the people of idolatry (and God did not tell Hosea to marry a prostitute). So should I be reported because I believe this is what the Scriptures say? That doesn't make any sense. I believe I was taught by the Spirit and not by any church or man on these things. I am following God's Word and my conscience. I believe I have come to the conclusion I have by prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture over a long period of time in deep study to the best of my abilities (with God guiding me). Should I be condemned for that? Surely not.

Now, if you are suggesting that a Christian here on this forum should hold to more obvious doctrines (to be able to post in the Christian section) like:

(a) They cannot deny the Trinity,
(b) They should not believe in Universalism,

Well, this is something that is left up to the creators of this thread to decide and not us. We do not have control over things like that. So far I have not seen any restrictions on what a Christian can believe here on CF. If there are such restrictions in possessing certain beliefs, I am unaware of them. The restriction is merely behaviorial. If a person is attacking another and insulting them, etc. then that is considered to be a "no," "no." In fact, I agree that it is not good to have such a restriction on bad behavior. There are times people want to attack the person instead of the belief. The attack must be with the Word of God on a person's belief and not by hitting the report button or being cute and smart with them or in attacking their character. God's Word is called the sword of the Spirit for a reason. It is our best weapon against any false doctrine or untruth. That along with prayer, too.


...

However, this is the problem......
What Is a Christian?

Should Christians (those that believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and the following of Christ [as word Christ'ian] )
change our Name to maybe First Christians? Or maybe 'Only Christians'

if Christians go to a Christian site then they expect Christians.
if I went to a islam site I expect those who believe in muhammad
if I went to a Jewish site I expect those that still believe in the Old laws of sacrifice.
I could name more.....
75 percent of Americans (rounded up) claiming to be Christian 22 percent of them believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
What does this say?
some believe that since they go to church their saved
They get on and talk about its ok just go to church it's ok you will be a Christian.
then there are those that believe that the Bible is not accurate because they don't understand it but because there family is christian they are too but believe as the world does that Jesus was just a good man and just a example to live and love.
they get on here and say it's ok to be who you are even though the bible does not teach that.
all these are professing Christians.

CF is a great idea but unless they set a guide line of what 'christian' means it is like any other forem but on the bright side at least the let the 22 percent speak.

 

[Sam91]

@drayanna

Who are the 22% ?

 

[W2L]

You guys are so close to the problem that you can't recognize it for yourselves, so an outsider has to point it out to you.

Until sola scripturists begin to recognize a Church with the authority to teach, you're going to keep having the problem of false doctrines. You can't just quote the bible and claim you're inerrant.

The catholic church isnt flawless, also your argument is flawed.

A person can learn from the bible, and from other christians who quote the bible. To me, the churches of catholicism appear to be legalistic, and controversial as well. I am glad to find liberty from such religious practice. I follow the Word, not a church.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And God told you already that you have to learn to identify who's voice that is.

All Jesus' Sheep Hear His Voice. (and will not follow any other)

He Says So.

 

[faroukfarouk]

@drayanna

Who are the 22% ?

I think the point should be that what 'religious' statistics might say is neither here nor there, in the final analysis; it's what clearly God's Word says that counts. As I'm sure you agree.

 

[Sam91]

I think the point should be that what 'religious' statistics might say is neither here nor there, in the final analysis; it's what clearly God's Word says that counts. As I'm sure you agree.

Nope. I still don't understand what the statistic is.

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

Everything the Sacred Scriptures say about themselves are true. They are useful for teaching, just not in the hands of the sola scripturist. This thread is yet more evidence of that. Everyone is claiming the bible as their greatest authority when in fact their greatest authority is their personal interpretation of the bible.

I can't blame sola scripturists for rejecting the personal interpretations of their fellow sola scripturists. I don't give them any credence either.

No, Scripture is always to be interpreted by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20) not by men--either corporately or privately. When guided by the Holy Spirit, there are no conflicts. The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself. If there are disagreements about what the Scripture teaches, either one or BOTH are not being taught by the Holy Spirit. That is one great problem, and it was pointed out even in the New Testament--that of those who have only received "John's baptism" and not the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is the difference between a "professor of the faith" and a "confessor of the faith"--that is one who possesses true faith. Every church (including the Roman Catholic Church) has both professors only and those who possess true faith. That is the lesson contained in the letters of the Risen Christ to the seven churches of the Book of Revelation.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Nope. I still don't understand what the statistic is.

I wasn't sure either.

 

[tadoflamb]

All Jesus' Sheep Hear His Voice. (and will not follow any other)

He Says So.

We heard that at mass yesterday.

Gospel
JN 10:1-10
Jesus said:
"Amen, amen, I say to you,
whoever does not enter a sheepfold through the gate
but climbs over elsewhere is a thief and a robber.
But whoever enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
The gatekeeper opens it for him, and the sheep hear his voice,
as the shepherd calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
When he has driven out all his own,
he walks ahead of them, and the sheep follow him,
because they recognize his voice.
But they will not follow a stranger;
they will run away from him,
because they do not recognize the voice of strangers."
Although Jesus used this figure of speech,
the Pharisees did not realize what he was trying to tell them.

So Jesus said again, "Amen, amen, I say to you,
I am the gate for the sheep.
All who came before me are thieves and robbers,
but the sheep did not listen to them.
I am the gate.
Whoever enters through me will be saved,
and will come in and go out and find pasture.
A thief comes only to steal and slaughter and destroy;
I came so that they might have life and have it more abundantly."

For some reason the Word has much more impact for me when received through it's guardian, the Church.

Everything else becomes, in protestant parlance, the 'teachings of men'.

 

[GeorgeJ]

I am rather new to CF and recently went on a thread that commented about the pope saying he was offended (my words) with the wording 'mother of bombs' I thought about his argument that a mother is nurturing and not a killer (my words) and I gave the original poster my view which was that there are 5 meanings to the word mother in a light manner. Then stated that The Heavenly Father does not concern Himself with media manipulations.
Thought no more about it.
Someone posted that the pope was saying alot of things in his opinion was not in his job description. then I posted that what was his job description and could he be fired or did they come from a blood line? (I honestly did not know those ?) I then said never-mind I would rather read the bible than Google that. (I was reading zechariah again in between post) but someone posted that the holy father is doing a good job but they used capital letters and this shocked and horrified me. Do they really do that? I thought to myself then another posted a similar post and I unwatched the thread but someone quoted my post which alerted me and I read his post which was answering my questions very kindly. I quoted his and thanked him but I must flee this thread because they call the Pope holy father (with capitals) and gave Mathews teachings of Jesus not to call anyone on earth Father (notice capital) and that there is only one Heavenly Father. And I also stated that it was ironic that the pope had issue with mother being used when he is not stopping people calling him holy father. And my comment to him would be to take the plank from his own eye before removing the speck of his brother.
I then was informed I could not debate cathlic religion on that thread. (They quoted my post that sent another alert) and I posted back that I wasn't debating and that I would be happy not to see there post for I never want to see that again so stop quoting my post.

I have researched history of cathlic and protestants but never their rituals. So really was shocking to see this. I felt so disappointed for in ever discussion I have had with a cathlic I ask if they trust in Jesus Christ as their savior and speak to Him alone for forgiveness and they tell me yes that the priest or pope is like in example Billy Graham or preacher. But never would I call a man holy with a capital but would say they are made holy in the body of Christ but that is only In Christ made holy. And never would I call a preacher father or etc...

I know that since I don't like to offend others it wasn't my intention but it escalated from just being flippant about media to me offending them and them offending me.

They even tried to say that I was confused because Paul refereed himself as father to his church yet they used lower case. But I refused to have anymore contact.

So I guess in the case above best thing is to leave alone and hope they do know Jesus Christ as their savior and the Holy Spirit will lead them to understanding that only through Jesus Christ should they set as there example and call only the Heavenly Father Holy and Father together.

But as far as the magazines "good job" throwing them out..
I say if it is going to make you or a loved one sin cut it off. Even if it means a loved one.
Who we associate with can lead into temptation. So sometimes if we find it hard to resist the wrong thing with friends or the friend continues to try to temp you knowing how you feel you must walk away...
But this is just my opinion

..rather long rant on Catholicism...."false" doctrine #7....

 

[W2L]

For some reason the Word has much more impact for me when received through it's guardian, the Church.

The Spirit of God, and not a church, keeps the scriptures. The spirit of the Lord teaches us too. Im grateful that God teaches me, rather than the churches of catholicism.

 

[W2L]

1 Corinthians 1:31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[tadoflamb]

The catholic church isnt flawless, also your argument is flawed.

A person can learn from the bible, and from other christians who quote the bible. To me, the churches of catholicism appear to be legalistic, and controversial as well. I am glad to find liberty from such religious practice. I follow the Word, not a church.

Actually, the Catholic Church is 100% doctrinally pure. I've never fallen for that oft repeated protestant mantra that every Church has some error. If that's true, how does anyone know what that the Truth is?

As much as I admire your individualism, I don't see it as a biblical application of the Christian faith.

 

[W2L]

Actually, the Catholic Church is 100% doctrinally pure. I've never fallen for that oft repeated protestant mantra that every Church has some error. If that's true, how does anyone know what that the Truth is?

As much as I admire your individualism, I don't see it as a biblical application of the Christian faith.

Pure? Look at all the controversial things in catholicism. Praying to mary, the queen of heaven? Get real bro, join the protestants.