Why seek "God"?

[Eyes wide Open]

Perhaps so.

I can only speak from my personal experience.

True, myself also

 

[dlamberth]

From a very high level analysis: Your attachment to the man resulted in an action which caused a birth, and birth always results in decay and death, which results in dukkha.

I've been on retreat the past 5 days, I'm back now.

Perspective is everything. From my perspective, your analysis that you give is from a very low level of awareness. And that the more one steps back to a more cosmic wide perspective of things both seen and unseen, the more dukkha becomes non-existent. I might add...that's my experience of things.

 

[ananda]

I've been on retreat the past 5 days, I'm back now.

Perspective is everything. From my perspective, your analysis that you give is from a very low level of awareness. And that the more one steps back to a more cosmic wide perspective of things both seen and unseen, the more dukkha becomes non-existent. I might add...that's my experience of things.

Welcome back.

Have you experienced this "cosmic wide perspective" where the absence of dukkha is permanent? Or, in other words, was that sukkha you experienced eternal, and continues to persist in your consciousness?

Actually, I do not completely disagree with your statement. I acknowledge that higher states of consciousness - relative to lower states of consciousness - produces vastly greater amounts of sukkha, almost to the extent that dukkha seems non-existent (in my experience). However, the one fact - at least for me - that the sukkha does not last forever, is itself dukkha.

 

[dlamberth]

Welcome back.

Thank You!

Have you experienced this "cosmic wide perspective" where the absence of dukkha is permanent? Or, in other words, was that sukkha you experienced eternal?

I'd rather not say where I've gone other than to say that awareness of dukkha exist only in this material Dualistic world. Awareness of it is a stepping stone that for some people is very helpful for them in their journey to be able to open up to a wider perspective. Though it's a great awareness for some people to be at, it's not the last step and really when looked at from a much wider perspective, it not far up the ladder. I certainly would not lock my horns there as if I've arrived or anything like that, at least from my experience of things.

 

[dlamberth]

I see all action as a combination of both functional and dysfunctional.

There is no such thing as dysfunction in the living, animating energy of the immaterial universe.

 

[ananda]

There is no such thing as dysfunction in the living, animating energy of the immaterial universe.

I'd have to disagree. All of creation, as I perceive it, is ultimately the result of ignorance.

 

[dlamberth]

I'd have to disagree. All of creation, as I perceive it, is ultimately the result of ignorance.

And I have to totally disagree with you. It takes an incredible amount of intelligence for the Universe to even exist. Creation, Creativity, Consciousness, Awareness...Life itSelf IS intelligence, or none of it would even happen.

 

[ananda]

And I have to totally disagree with you. It takes an incredible amount of intelligence for the Universe to even exist. Creation, Creativity, Consciousness, Awareness...Life itSelf IS intelligence, or none of it would even happen.

I don't dispute that intelligence is required for creativeness (the "how").

What I'm stating instead is that the "why" behind the activity of creation itself is based on ignorance.

 

[dlamberth]

What I'm stating instead is that the "why" behind the activity of creation itself is based on ignorance.

From my perspective and Buddhist experience, your swimming way too much in the brain of duality. Move beyond that! You will never get a satisfying answer for the "why". The ignorance part is not with Creation, it's with us.

 

[ananda]

From my perspective and Buddhist experience, your swimming way too much in the brain of duality. Move beyond that! You will never get a satisfying answer for the "why". The ignorance part is not with Creation, it's with us.

I've no problem with duality ... whether there is duality or non-duality, it does not change the fact that dukkha exists.

In my experience, we engage in creative activity because we often think "more" will solve dukkha ("creation" is the act of adding more). It is actually less (uncreation?) which actually resolves dukkha. In many respects, Buddhist & Hindu meditation can be said to be the process of reversing creation.

I cannot and do not say that your experience is incorrect or wrong, I am merely writing from my own personal experience.

 

[dlamberth]

I've no problem with duality ... whether there is duality or non-duality, it does not change the fact that dukkha exists.

I'm at a loss as to how dukkha can even exist in non-duality.

In my experience, we engage in creative activity because we often think "more" will solve dukkha ("creation" is the act of adding more). It is actually less (uncreation?) which actually resolves dukkha. In many respects, Buddhist & Hindu meditation can be said to be the process of reversing creation.

I cannot and do not say that your experience is incorrect or wrong, I am merely writing from my own personal experience.

It would be interesting to see how all of this changes for you as time moves on.

 

[ananda]

I'm at a loss as to how dukkha can even exist in non-duality.

How is duality or non-duality related to the existence or non-existence of dukkha?

It would be interesting to see how all of this changes for you as time moves on.

Likewise

 

[dlamberth]

How is duality or non-duality related to the existence or non-existence of dukkha?

Have you had any training in breath? In this very brief quote from "The Radiance Sutras #3", when one rides the breath to infinity, and while residing there, could you please point towards where dukkha resides?

"Breath flows out, emptying, emptying,
Offering itself to infinity.

Cherishing these moments,
Mind dissolves into space,
Body becomes a vibrating field,
Pulsating between fullness and emptiness."

 

[ananda]

Have you had any training in breath? In this very brief quote from "The Radiance Sutras #3", when one rides the breath to infinity, and while residing there, could you please point towards where dukkha resides?

"Breath flows out, emptying, emptying,
Offering itself to infinity.

Cherishing these moments,
Mind dissolves into space,
Body becomes a vibrating field,
Pulsating between fullness and emptiness."

Yes, but my breath training is according to the early Buddhist/Kammatthana tradition, in samatha and jhana.

Dukkha is very subtle in jhana; it is most evident when one withdraws from jhana (jhana is impermanent, and things we cannot control and establish to our satisfaction - e.g. eternally - is itself dukkha).

 

[Dwells]

As many have pointed out, "love" is such a multivalent word, that it is essentially meaningless.

The ultimate goal of Buddhist practice - nibbana - is absent of attachments (and thus, absent of dukkha) of any kind, transcending the attachments of love (judging by any of its definitions, or attempts at definitions, I've heard).

For what purpose?

 

[ananda]

For what purpose?

For the purpose of permanent relief from dukkha.

 

[Dwells]

For the purpose of permanent relief from dukkha.

A sort of death?

 

[ananda]

A sort of death?

No ... simply relief from dukkha (and thus, permanent sukkha).

 

[Dwells]

No ... simply relief from dukkha (and thus, permanent sukkha).

Wouldn't death be the only way to attain sukkha? or is death part of dukkha, and how can one avoid death?

I wonder then, would Kenosis be an opposite of sukkha?

 

[dlamberth]

As many have pointed out, "love" is such a multivalent word, that it is essentially meaningless.

As I watch a mother with her new born child, I know for truth that Love is not meaningless!