Sabbath & Holy Days NECESSARY for salvation.

[bugkiller]

Sounds like a competition. Those who hate the law tend to like Paul's teachings, though I believe Paul loved the law, but had the wisdom to love it in the right way, and that was through faith. He saw the spiritual side of the law and its' fulfillment as God's word concerning Christ and His Church.

If there is any competition is is your doing.

Peter equates or places Paul's writings on par with Scripture.

Wonder why Paul had no respect for those who kept, rather tried to keep the law.

Why would Paul say those that preach keeping the law are our enemies?

Why does Paul say those who are justified by the law lose their salvation? Gal 5:2

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Never said I was under the law.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

The law bears witness to the Christ, and there is an inner wisdom in the commandments. According to what I see written, is that the Sabbath and the feast days have a greater spiritual fulfillment, not yet even comprehended by present-day theologians. I think people who hate the law have a mysterious dark side.
If any one thinks they can keep the commandments perfectly without sin, good luck with that.

Yeah every one who does not take your view as their own is a hater. hehehe

bugkiller

 

[ImAHebrew]

According to Psalms 119:29, David asked God to show His grace to him by teaching him His Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is Lawful and to renounce doing what is Lawless. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace as a licence for Lawlessness. According to Strong's, grace is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His Law. So it is by grace that we are trained through faith to live according to His Law.

Shalom Soyeong, very good synopsis. Can you explain why when Transgression is INCREASED, Grace is INCREASED all the more (Romans 5:20)? How does increasing Transgression, increase Grace, and why is it that anyone who desires Justification in Messiah, they had to be a sinner? (Galatians 2:17) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

But what do you think that gift is regarding sin.

Shalom 1stcenturylady, it is the Free Gift of Righteousness. By sinning, we have the Free Gift. Do you agree? Why would Paul be slandered as saying, "Let us do evil, so that good may come?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[bugkiller]

Shalom All, well, seeing that there none who have learned about Grace, are there any who understand what Paul meant when he said that it was the DOERS of the Law who were Righteous or Justified before Elohim, and NOT the hearers of the Law? (Romans 2:13) And WHY would it be those who are "untaught" and "unstable" that would TWIST and DISTORT what Paul writes, and possibly cause some to fall by the ERROR of those LAWless men? (2 Peter 3:14-18) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

You promote grace only when you think you violate the law making it worthless.

Paul says -

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; I Tim 1

You can see the law is not for the righteous.

bugkiller

 

[ImAHebrew]

Christ fulfilled every jot and title of the law in his life, death and resurrection 2000 years ago. The law has been fulfilled so it is passed away for believers.

Shalom bloodygrace, really? So when the Law says:

Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the Innocent and Righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

You believe He fulfilled these "jot's" and "title's?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, it is the Free Gift of Righteousness. By sinning, we have the Free Gift. Do you agree? Why would Paul be slandered as saying, "Let us do evil, so that good may come?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

No! Because that is what it seems, that is exactly what Paul was speaking against at the beginning of the very next chapter. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

Shall I tell you what I believe yet?

 

[Bob S]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, great! Paul taught that Grace (the Free Gift) from Elohim is OF many offences, unto justification/righteousness (Romans 5:16). Is that clear enough for you to agree with?

What is wrong with unmerited favor. It would seem that Messianics think thy have some higher understanding resulting in a superior attitude. When it all boils down it is not what we do, it is what Jesus has done for us.

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom bloodygrace, really? So when the Law says:

Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the Innocent and Righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

You believe He fulfilled these "jot's" and "title's?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

The law has been fulfilled, past tense, 2000 years ago. If you don't believe that then you're still in you sins. The law won't forgive sin in case you didn't know that.

 

[ImAHebrew]

You promote grace only when you think you violate the law making it worthless.

Paul says -

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; I Tim 1

You can see the law is not for the righteous.

bugkiller

Shalom bugkiller, you really don't know much about me yet do you? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[1stcenturylady]

What is wrong with unmerited favor. It would seem that Messianics think thy have some higher understanding resulting in a superior attitude. When it all boils down it is not what we do, it is what Jesus has done for us.

But Jesus did far more than giving us unmerited favor, Bob.

 

[bloodygrace]

No! Because that what it seems, that is exactly what Paul was speaking against at the beginning of the very next chapter. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

Shall I tell you what I believe yet?

Sinning is trying to keep a law that was already fulfilled 2000 years ago. It's called unbelief the reason why branches were broken off.

 

[Bob S]

But Jesus did far more than giving us unmerited favor, Bob.

Yep, but that was not in the discussion Lady.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yep, but that was not in the discussion Lady.

It is the discussion between IamHebrew and I which you interjected your thoughts on the definition of grace.

 

[ImAHebrew]

No! Because that is what it seems, that is exactly what Paul was speaking against at the beginning of the very next chapter. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

Shall I tell you what I believe yet?

Shalom 1stcenturylady, I already KNOW exactly what you believe. You have NEVER heard what I believe. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Soyeong]

Shalom Soyeong, very good synopsis. Can you explain why when Transgression is INCREASED, Grace is INCREASED all the more (Romans 5:20)? How does increasing Transgression, increase Grace, and why is it that anyone who desires Justification in Messiah, they had to be a sinner? (Galatians 2:17) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Shalom,

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul made a concluding statement in which he summarized what said previously in which he said he delighted in obeying God's Law that he served with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive that he served with his flesh. He described God's Law as not being sin, but revealing what sin is (7:7), as holy, righteous, and good (7:12), and as being the good that he wanted to do (7:13-20), but contrasted that with the law of sin that stirred up sin to bear fruit unto death (7:5), that held him captive (7:6), that gave sin its power (7:8), and that caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do. So it is the law of sin that he described as sin having dominion over him, which we are not under when we are under grace (6:14), it is also the law of sin that came about to increase tresspassess (5:20), and God's grace increased by teaching us to obey God's Law and to reject the influence of the law of sin. In regard to Galatians 2:17, it does appear to me to be saying that anyone who desires justification had to be a sinner, but rather he was making a condition "if" statement.

 

[bugkiller]

Shalom All, well, seeing that there none who have learned about Grace, are there any who understand what Paul meant when he said that it was the DOERS of the Law who were Righteous or Justified before Elohim, and NOT the hearers of the Law? (Romans 2:13) And WHY would it be those who are "untaught" and "unstable" that would TWIST and DISTORT what Paul writes, and possibly cause some to fall by the ERROR of those LAWless men? (2 Peter 3:14-18) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Rom 3

Listen to Issiah's lament -

17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. Isa 63

The Palms say -


2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 14

bugkiller

 

[ImAHebrew]

What is wrong with unmerited favor. It would seem that Messianics think thy have some higher understanding resulting in a superior attitude. When it all boils down it is not what we do, it is what Jesus has done for us.

Shalom Bob S, who said I was a "messianic?" You have NO IDEA who I Am. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[bugkiller]

Shalom bloodygrace, really? So when the Law says:

Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the Innocent and Righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

You believe He fulfilled these "jot's" and "title's?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

If Jesus did not, He is not the Messiah.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No! Because that is what it seems, that is exactly what Paul was speaking against at the beginning of the very next chapter. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

Shall I tell you what I believe yet?

Sorry but Paul is not promoting the law for righteousness.

bugkiller