Sabbath & Holy Days NECESSARY for salvation.

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom All, well, seeing that there none who have learned about Grace, are there any who understand what Paul meant when he said that it was the DOERS of the Law who were Righteous or Justified before Elohim, and NOT the hearers of the Law? (Romans 2:13) And WHY would it be those who are "untaught" and "unstable" that would TWIST and DISTORT what Paul writes, and possibly cause some to fall by the ERROR of those LAWless men? (2 Peter 3:14-18) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Why would you say that there are none who have learned about Grace? I know what it means. What is your definition of grace?

 

[ImAHebrew]

The doers of the law are those who are filled with the Holy Spirit not the works righteous.

Shalom bloodygrace, I will have to go with what the Apostle Paul says, that the DOERS of the Law are Righteous before Elohim. I'm sure that Paul gained his insight and understanding from the Law of Elohim, as he was familiar with these Scriptures:

Isaiah 51:7 “Listen to Me, you who KNOW Righteousness, A people in whose heart is My Law; Do not fear the reproach of man, Nor be dismayed at their revilings."

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 “See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as Yahweh my Elohim commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it. 6 “So keep and do them, for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ 7 “For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as is Yahweh our Elohim whenever we call on Him? 8 “Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as Righteous as this Whole Law which I am setting before you today?

Deuteronomy 6:25 “It will be Righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before Yahweh our Elohim, just as He commanded us.

Psalms 119:172 Let my tongue sing of Your Word, For all Your Commandments are Righteousness.

So bloodygrace, IF you think that Paul taught AGAINST the Law, and desired you NOT to be Righteous, why would he say that it is the DOERS of the Law who are Righteous? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. bloodygrace, are you familiar with Isaiah 8:20? Do you have any LIGHT?

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom bloodygrace, I will have to go with what the Apostle Paul says, that the DOERS of the Law are Righteous before Elohim. I'm sure that Paul gained his insight and understanding from the Law of Elohim, as he was familiar with these Scriptures:

Isaiah 51:7 “Listen to Me, you who KNOW Righteousness, A people in whose heart is My Law; Do not fear the reproach of man, Nor be dismayed at their revilings."

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 “See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as Yahweh my Elohim commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it. 6 “So keep and do them, for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ 7 “For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as is Yahweh our Elohim whenever we call on Him? 8 “Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as Righteous as this Whole Law which I am setting before you today?

Deuteronomy 6:25 “It will be Righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before Yahweh our Elohim, just as He commanded us.

Psalms 119:172 Let my tongue sing of Your Word, For all Your Commandments are Righteousness.

So bloodygrace, IF you think that Paul taught AGAINST the Law, and desired you NOT to be Righteous, why would he say that it is the DOERS of the Law who are Righteous? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. bloodygrace, are you familiar with Isaiah 8:20? Do you have any LIGHT?

Paul is the main one who did teach against the law with such classic verses as:

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes Rom. 10:4

Wherefore you are become dead to the law by the body of Christ Rom. 7:4

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Rom. 3:20

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom bloodygrace, I will have to go with what the Apostle Paul says, that the DOERS of the Law are Righteous before Elohim. I'm sure that Paul gained his insight and understanding from the Law of Elohim, as he was familiar with these Scriptures:

Isaiah 51:7 “Listen to Me, you who KNOW Righteousness, A people in whose heart is My Law; Do not fear the reproach of man, Nor be dismayed at their revilings."

Deuteronomy 4:5-8 “See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as Yahweh my Elohim commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it. 6 “So keep and do them, for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’ 7 “For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as is Yahweh our Elohim whenever we call on Him? 8 “Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as Righteous as this Whole Law which I am setting before you today?

Deuteronomy 6:25 “It will be Righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before Yahweh our Elohim, just as He commanded us.

Psalms 119:172 Let my tongue sing of Your Word, For all Your Commandments are Righteousness.

So bloodygrace, IF you think that Paul taught AGAINST the Law, and desired you NOT to be Righteous, why would he say that it is the DOERS of the Law who are Righteous? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. bloodygrace, are you familiar with Isaiah 8:20? Do you have any LIGHT?

Do you keep the laws of God perfectly? What is your definition of grace?

 

[ImAHebrew]

Paul is the main one who did teach against the law with such classic verses as:

For Christ is the end (G5056) of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes Rom. 10:4

Wherefore you are become dead to the law by the body of Christ Rom. 7:4

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Rom. 3:20

Shalom bloodygrace, so you do not understand Paul when he says that Messiah is the "end" of the Law? Do you understand that Greek word G5056 and what it means? What does James mean when he uses this Greek word in James 5:11? Did he mean the "end" of "the Lord?" Or was it that the conclusion or FULFILLMENT of the Law is IN Messiah. Do you not agree that there is a BIG difference BETWEEN ENDING the Law, and FULFILLING the Law? You have followed after "lawless" men in your understanding of Paul as he has been twisted and distorted to be against the "end/fulfillment" of the Law IN Messiah. How is Messiah the "end/fulfillment" of the Law to you? Please, explain. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Do you keep the laws of God perfectly? What is your definition of grace?

Shalom 1stcenturylady, are you sure you want to hear my definition of Grace? Will you do your best to "grasp" what I explain to you about what Paul has taught about Grace? Most are so predisposed with their OWN understanding about Grace, that when the Truth about Grace is presented, they are unable to believe. So, if you promise me that you will listen to every word I tell you about Grace, I will explain. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Please be specific. Writing in generalities will never pinpoint your claims.

Shalom Bob S, I think I was specific enough. How are DOERS of the Law RIGHTEOUS according to the Apostle Paul, isn't it NOT by just HEARING the Law? (Romans 2:13) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, are you sure you want to hear my definition of Grace? Will you do your best to "grasp" what I explain to you about what Paul has taught about Grace? Most are so predisposed with their OWN understanding about Grace, that when the Truth about Grace is presented, they are unable to believe. So, if you promise me that you will listen to every word I tell you about Grace, I will explain. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Grace means unmerited favor which is the exact opposite of keeping the law! The one verse in the bible that speaks of falling from grace is by trying to keep the law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal. 5:4

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom bloodygrace, so you do not understand Paul when he says that Messiah is the "end" of the Law? Do you understand that Greek word G5056 and what it means? What does James mean when he uses this Greek word in James 5:11? Did he mean the "end" of "the Lord?" Or was it that the conclusion or FULFILLMENT of the Law is IN Messiah. Do you not agree that there is a BIG difference BETWEEN ENDING the Law, and FULFILLING the Law? You have followed after "lawless" men in your understanding of Paul as he has been twisted and distorted to be against the "end/fulfillment" of the Law IN Messiah. How is Messiah the "end/fulfillment" of the Law to you? Please, explain. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

It means Christ is the end of the law for believers. For unbelievers the law is still in effect.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Grace means unmerited favor which is the exact opposite of keeping the law! The one verse in the bible that speaks of falling from grace is by trying to keep the law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal. 5:4

Shalom bloodygrace, you have a big problem. On one hand, The Apostle Paul says that it is the DOERS of the Law who are justified, and then on the other he says, the "works" of the Law will not justify anyone who does not fully DO the whole Law according to those "works." Do you not have any understanding of HOW to DO the Law BY Faith, and NOT by "works?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, are you sure you want to hear my definition of Grace? Will you do your best to "grasp" what I explain to you about what Paul has taught about Grace? Most are so predisposed with their OWN understanding about Grace, that when the Truth about Grace is presented, they are unable to believe. So, if you promise me that you will listen to every word I tell you about Grace, I will explain. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

You never know, we may hold the same view, especially if it is the truth. A hint on my view which I will share after you do your view, the true meaning is found with the help of the Hebrew style of writing.

 

[ImAHebrew]

It means Christ is the end of the law for believers. For unbelievers the law is still in effect.

Shalom bloodygrace, you are confused. The Law is Eternal as it will be fulfilled/kept FOREVER and EVER (Psalms 119:44), and Elohim's Righteousness is an EVERLASTING Righteousness, as His Law is The Truth (Psalms 119:142). Why would you erroneously think that the Law ENDS? Will you not BELIEVE the WORDS of Messiah?

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy (end) the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy (end), but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Bloodygrace, are you going to be called, "least" or "great" in the Kingdom of Elohim/Heaven? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

You never know, we may hold the same view, especially if it is the truth. A hint on my view which I will share after you do your view, the true meaning is found with the help of the Hebrew style of writing.

Shalom 1stcenturylady, so, do I have YOUR promise? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, so, do I have YOUR promise? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I always listen, and if I believe you are right, I'll tell you so.

 

[ImAHebrew]

I always listen, and if I believe you are right, I'll tell you so.

Shalom 1stcenturylady, great! Paul taught that Grace (the Free Gift) from Elohim is OF many offences, unto justification/righteousness (Romans 5:16). Is that clear enough for you to agree with? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Bob S]

Hello Bob:

I don't think you should be hostile about people who speak according to the Law, because the gospel is according to OT scriptures.

Why are you making me something that I am not? And why are you mixing apples with oranges. Gospel does not equal law.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scripture.

Why are you writing all this? Just because the new covenant was foretold in the Old Testament doesn't make Christians subject to the old covenant. I really do not know where you are going with this. Do you feel superior to the rest o us and are trying to submit your knowledge by telling us we do not know what we believe?

I'm sure you know all these scriptures, seeing that that you consider the wisdom of the 10 commandments infantile.

No, I do not know all scripture. Some I do not yet understand. What I do know is that no one is going to ever again tell me that I must observe laws that were only meant for Israel.

By the way, the Gentiles are invited(commanded to come to the Feast of tabernacles)

.
My nation didn't come up against Jerusalem, so use your head instead of using verses that have no meaning to anyone today. Using verses out of context is not helping anyone to see the truth.

I imagine this will require them to observe the feast of Trumpets. Take my advice they're a good time, with much more substance than the pagan rituals of easter, christmas, and halloween.

You imagine? If it is not scriptural then please leave your imagination rest. As far as the ritual days Christians observe, there is absolutely no requirement in the new covenant to observe any days. We are free to remember our Lord in any respectable way. Halloween is a different story.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Let us know when this is coming.

It is a time to glorify God in Christ, and pay your dues. Whoever appears empty-handed shall not be excepted for it would be like showing up for a wedding naked, how embarrassing.

Pay my dues? Another off the cuff statement that you have not put a subject.

Now you probably just missed it, that is a time to get the leavening out of your house.
The deceitfulness of sin needs to be cleaned out of your house unless you like living in LIES, and the world is full of it.

You seem to be some sort of a prophet and I would bet a false one. Why do you believe I am living lies. YOU DO NOT KNOW ME. I cannot believe you would write something like that. You certainly do need our prayers. What you wrote speaks smack dab of legalism.

The pig is an animal that does not chew the cud. The thing that separates animals that are clean from unclean is how they eat, and how they move, and this is a wisdom that only the righteous will understand.

Funny god has not explained that to the rest of the World and only you special people know the difference. Now there is something you could work at doing, delivering mankind from the pig. The pig is one of the earliest animals to be domesticated. I don't think they raised them to make footballs out of the skins.

After all the confusion clears away, (after all the delusional are destroyed at the mountain gathering which is Armageddon) the confusion (Babylon) will be over and the salvation of those who praise God and His Word will be gathered to Eternity.

And I suppose since you have all the right answers you will be one of "those" and I will be wanting because I have not subscribed to your theology.

Don't be mad , get glad and rejoice in God's Word.

Hethatreadethit

[/QUOTE]

 

[Soyeong]

Why would you say that there are none who have learned about Grace? I know what it means. What is your definition of grace?

According to Psalms 119:29, David asked God to show His grace to him by teaching him His Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is Lawful and to renounce doing what is Lawless. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace as a licence for sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, grace is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His commands. So it is by grace that we are trained through faith to live according to God's Law.

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom bloodygrace, you have a big problem. On one hand, The Apostle Paul says that it is the DOERS of the Law who are justified, and then on the other he says, the "works" of the Law will not justify anyone who does not fully DO the whole Law according to those "works." Do you not have any understanding of HOW to DO the Law BY Faith, and NOT by "works?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Yea, we do the law by having it written in the heart by faith. The law written in stone is obsolete for those who live by God's love.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, great! Paul taught that Grace (the Free Gift) from Elohim is OF many offences, unto justification/righteousness (Romans 5:16). Is that clear enough for you to agree with? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

But what do you think that gift is regarding sin.

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom bloodygrace, you are confused. The Law is Eternal as it will be fulfilled/kept FOREVER and EVER (Psalms 119:44), and Elohim's Righteousness is an EVERLASTING Righteousness, as His Law is The Truth (Psalms 119:142). Why would you erroneously think that the Law ENDS? Will you not BELIEVE the WORDS of Messiah?

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy (end) the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy (end), but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Bloodygrace, are you going to be called, "least" or "great" in the Kingdom of Elohim/Heaven? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Christ fulfilled every jot and title of the law in his life, death and resurrection 2000 years ago. The law has been fulfilled so it is passed away for believers.