Sabbath & Holy Days NECESSARY for salvation.

[Hethatreadethit]

I can see Jesus as the substance of the Sabbath and the feasts, but I'm clueless as to how the new moon is a representation of Jesus?

The moon is a light that shines in darkness.

Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Those who keep God's commandments are reflection of His light, just as the moon reflects the light of the sun

 

[Hethatreadethit]

Well I will say you have a different view than I have ever heard.

bugkiller

What do you think Christ means when He says:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[Hethatreadethit]

Well I will say you have a different view than I have ever heard.

bugkiller

The things that are written in the OT are the substance that bear witness to the work of God concerning Christ. Although a lot of the OT is about carnal sacrifice, there is a wisdom within that which is hidden. The Spirit of Truth follows the pathways of which these three entities encompass: MERCY, TRUTH, AND PEACE.

Paul refers to 'taking hold of the head" :

Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Christ is the head, you know that right?

In the sacrifice laws , it is written:

Lev 1:4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

The word "put" is used in this scripture as well:

Isa 36:6 Lo, thou trustest in the staff of this broken reed, on Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust in him.

It is translated as "lean"

The intent of this scripture is to show that ones hope and trust in Pharaoh will not be good for them.

But then on the other hand the same word ( 5564 in the strongs) is used to show support for those who hope and trust in God.

Psa 71:5 For thou art my hope, O Lord GOD: thou art my trust from my youth.
Psa 71:6 By thee have I been holden up from the womb: thou art he that took me out of my mother's bowels: my praise shall be continually of thee.

Holden up is the same word in this scripture.

I could go on and on here but I will try to make this short and make a few more examples.

In the Leviticus scripture I referenced, the holding the head would accomplish the atonement.
Spiritually, one's hope in Christ (the Head) accomplishes this cleansing:

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

This hope and trust that we hold onto is the Head which is Christ, and this is the Word of God' from which we get our instruction, and if we follow this instruction, then our hope will turn to gladness:

Pro 10:28 The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.

Isa 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Therefore by taking hold of the Head is the firm foundation we need to hold on firmly to the instruction for which the salvation is in Christ:

Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

Hethatreadethit

 

[Hethatreadethit]

If you are speaking of the Mosaic law then a big no to your question. The law was the word of God to Israel which is now defunct.

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Christ our Passover came to fulfill the law and the prophets for which you distance your self from.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Christ our Passover came to fulfill the law and the prophets for which you distance your self from.

I found it! The new moon was a sin offering which Jesus fulfilled. So, of course, it is no longer observed.

Numbers 28:11-15

11 ‘At the beginnings of your months you shall present a burnt offering to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish; 12 three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for each bull; two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for the one ram; 13 and one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour, mixed with oil, as a grain offering for each lamb, as a burnt offering of sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord. 14 Their drink offering shall be half a hin of wine for a bull, one-third of a hin for a ram, and one-fourth of a hin for a lamb; this is the burnt offering for each month throughout the months of the year. 15 Also one kid of the goats as a sin offering to the Lord shall be offered, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The moon is a light that shines in darkness.

Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Those who keep God's commandments are reflection of His light, just as the moon reflects the light of the sun

I love this explanation. But I needed to know what the Jews were doing, and more importantly WHY. Read #105 above.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I love this explanation. But I needed to know what the Jews were doing, and more importantly WHY. Read #105 above.

So wonderful. When I sight the new moon, and takes a trained eye, but I get a mystical feel as one who is looking for the return of Christ, and as you probably know, that He will return at the sound of trump. And then the Sabbath, for the Feast of Trumpets is a celebration of the return of light, the witness of the new moon.

Psa 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
Psa 89:37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

 

[1stcenturylady]

So wonderful. When I sight the new moon, and takes a trained eye, but I get a mystical feel as one who is looking for the return of Christ, and as you probably know, that He will return at the sound of trump. And then the Sabbath, for the Feast of Trumpets is a celebration of the return of light, the witness of the new moon.

Psa 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
Psa 89:37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

The celebration of the New Moon is called Rosh Chodesh. So the Feast of Trumpets was held on a Rosh Chodesh too, except yearly? I didn't know that either. But, it makes sense as it was the beginning of the new year held at the beginning of that month.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I found it! The new moon was a sin offering which Jesus fulfilled. So, of course, it is no longer observed.

Numbers 28:11-15

11 ‘At the beginnings of your months you shall present a burnt offering to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish; 12 three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for each bull; two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for the one ram; 13 and one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour, mixed with oil, as a grain offering for each lamb, as a burnt offering of sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord. 14 Their drink offering shall be half a hin of wine for a bull, one-third of a hin for a ram, and one-fourth of a hin for a lamb; this is the burnt offering for each month throughout the months of the year. 15 Also one kid of the goats as a sin offering to the Lord shall be offered, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

Sin offerings and burnt offerings are different. If I were to think of a good name for a burnt offering, I would call it a sacrifice of righteousness, or a Faith Offering. Burnt offerings were offered with a grain offering and a wine offering. Spiritually, I can connect this offering with what is written in James:

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Likewise, the sacrifice of just the burnt offering alone is just a dead animal. We cannot please God with just our good looks-lol.

So you have the offering and its good works and word.

Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

"Bullocks" are believers and I believe really represent the leaders of the Church, for their size is greater than lambs.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Sin offerings and burnt offerings are different. If I were to think of a good name for a burnt offering, I would call it a sacrifice of righteousness, or a Faith Offering. Burnt offerings were offered with a grain offering and a wine offering. Spiritually, I can connect this offering with what is written in James:

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Likewise, the sacrifice of just the burnt offering alone is just a dead animal. We cannot please God with just our good looks-lol.

So you have the offering and its good works and word.

Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

"Bullocks" are believers and I believe really represent the leaders of the Church, for their size is greater than lambs.

verse 15 says the new moon celebration was both. 15 Also one kid of the goats as a sin offering to the Lord shall be offered, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

 

[Bob S]

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Christ our Passover came to fulfill the law and the prophets for which you distance your self from.

I take it you do not believe the words of the Apostle Paul. He is the one in scripture that tells us we are not under the laws of Israel and the prophets. 2Cor3:7-11, Gal 3:19 and many more verses you ignore. I have never written that the OT should not be studied and we will be very much grounded in the faith when we do study those wonderful passages. That does not mean we are under the laws given only to Israel. We are under the new and better covenant ratified with Jesus own blood at Calvary. Yes Jesus did fulfill the old law. He did what Israel failed to do and then that law ended at the Cross. My dictionary tells me the meaning of fulfilled is to:
1.
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
2.
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
3.
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
4.
to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.

If you do not believe He brought the old law to an end then He also said in the same paragraph that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law. My question to you is: are you wearing tassels, keeping you sideburns long like the Hasidic Jews, getting the Temple rebuilt so that you can worship like God required of those under Torah. Teaching that we are still under the law of Moses is a serious thing. It has thrown unsuspecting people into becoming legalistic. I know from experience.

 

[bugkiller]

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Christ our Passover came to fulfill the law and the prophets for which you distance your self from.

The insistence from the pro law group here is that we individually must fulfill the law to which there is justifiably a very strong resistance here. The emphasis is toward the law and away from Jesus by the pro law faction. So yes we pro grace people distance ourselves from the law of which we are not obligated to as Christians.

bugkiller

 

[Hethatreadethit]

The insistence from the pro law group here is that we individually must fulfill the law to which there is justifiably a very strong resistance here. The emphasis is toward the law and away from Jesus by the pro law faction. So yes we pro grace people distance ourselves from the law of which we are not obligated to as Christians.

bugkiller

Sounds like a competition. Those who hate the law tend to like Paul's teachings, though I believe Paul loved the law, but had the wisdom to love it in the right way, and that was through faith. He saw the spiritual side of the law and its' fulfillment as God's word concerning Christ and His Church.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I take it you do not believe the words of the Apostle Paul. He is the one in scripture that tells us we are not under the laws of Israel and the prophets. 2Cor3:7-11, Gal 3:19 and many more verses you ignore. I have never written that the OT should not be studied and we will be very much grounded in the faith when we do study those wonderful passages. That does not mean we are under the laws given only to Israel. We are under the new and better covenant ratified with Jesus own blood at Calvary. Yes Jesus did fulfill the old law. He did what Israel failed to do and then that law ended at the Cross. My dictionary tells me the meaning of fulfilled is to:
1.
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
2.
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
3.
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
4.
to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.

If you do not believe He brought the old law to an end then He also said in the same paragraph that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law. My question to you is: are you wearing tassels, keeping you sideburns long like the Hasidic Jews, getting the Temple rebuilt so that you can worship like God required of those under Torah. Teaching that we are still under the law of Moses is a serious thing. It has thrown unsuspecting people into becoming legalistic. I know from experience.

Never said I was under the law.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

The law bears witness to the Christ, and there is an inner wisdom in the commandments. According to what I see written, is that the Sabbath and the feast days have a greater spiritual fulfillment, not yet even comprehended by present-day theologians. I think people who hate the law have a mysterious dark side.
If any one thinks they can keep the commandments perfectly without sin, good luck with that.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

verse 15 says the new moon celebration was both. 15 Also one kid of the goats as a sin offering to the Lord shall be offered, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

The burnt offering was offered inside the camp and sin offerings were burned out side. The trumpet sounded over the burnt offerings. Though just carnal offerings, there is some great spiritual things that these works shadowed.
You mentioned about the drink offerings. Consider that Paul likened himself to being poured out like a drink offering:

Php 2:17 Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
Php 2:18 For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.
.
He considered the speaking of Gods word as pouring out like a drink offering and the subject of this work was to edify faith, which comes by hearing. Righteousness begins with faith. Therefore, a sacrifice of righteousness.

I have to go, but would like to say more latter.

Good day
Hethatreadethit

 

[Bob S]

Never said I was under the law.

You could have fooled me. Do you observe the ritual days and other commands given only to Israel? You are defending the law like it is our duty to live by it, now I would like to know if you are an observer of Torah or parts therein.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Wonderful council for those who were under the law.

The law bears witness to the Christ,

Where

and there is an inner wisdom in the commandments

.
Are you referring to the 10 commandments? If so it is a very limited amount of wisdom. The 10 do not even mention the law of love.

According to what I see written, is that the Sabbath and the feast days have a greater spiritual fulfillment, not yet even comprehended by present-day theologians.

Please by all means show us who are not in the light where.

I think people who hate the law have a mysterious dark side.

I don't know if you think anyone who is writing on this forum are haters of the law or not. If you do/did then you have imagined that up in your mind, you certainly didn't get it from us.

If any one thinks they can keep the commandments perfectly without sin, good luck with that.

Kinda off subject, but I fully agree. No need for Jesus to have given His life n the cruel Cross if we could pull ourselves up by our own boot straps.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Shalom All, has anyone ever learned about the Grace of Elohim? Or how about Righteousness, and how it is a Free Gift? Can anyone explain the "mechanics" of Grace and the Free Gift of Righteousness? How does it work? Do we punish the innocent and righteous in place of the wicked? What do you think this Scripture means:

Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the Innocent and Righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Do you think there could be a possibility that many will need to re-consider how they are made Righteous?

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Shalom All, well, seeing that there none who have learned about Grace, are there any who understand what Paul meant when he said that it was the DOERS of the Law who were Righteous or Justified before Elohim, and NOT the hearers of the Law? (Romans 2:13) And WHY would it be those who are "untaught" and "unstable" that would TWIST and DISTORT what Paul writes, and possibly cause some to fall by the ERROR of those LAWless men? (2 Peter 3:14-18) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[bloodygrace]

Shalom All, well, seeing that there none who have learned about Grace, are there any who understand what Paul meant when he said that it was the DOERS of the Law who were Righteous or Justified before Elohim, and NOT the hearers of the Law? (Romans 2:13) And WHY would it be those who are "untaught" and "unstable" that would TWIST and DISTORT what Paul writes, and possibly cause some to fall by the ERROR of those LAWless men? (2 Peter 3:14-18) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

The doers of the law are those who are filled with the Holy Spirit not the works righteous.

 

[Bob S]

Shalom All, well, seeing that there none who have learned about Grace, are there any who understand what Paul meant when he said that it was the DOERS of the Law who were Righteous or Justified before Elohim, and NOT the hearers of the Law? (Romans 2:13) And WHY would it be those who are "untaught" and "unstable" that would TWIST and DISTORT what Paul writes, and possibly cause some to fall by the ERROR of those LAWless men? (2 Peter 3:14-18) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Please be specific. Writing in generalities will never pinpoint your claims.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

You could have fooled me. Do you observe the ritual days and other commands given only to Israel? You are defending the law like it is our duty to live by it, now I would like to know if you are an observer of Torah or parts therein.

Wonderful council for those who were under the law.


Where


.
Are you referring to the 10 commandments? If so it is a very limited amount of wisdom. The 10 do not even mention the law of love.





.
Are you referring to the 10 commandments? If so it is a very limited amount of wisdom. The 10 do not even mention the law of love.



Please by all means show us who are not in the light where.


I don't know if you think anyone who is writing on this forum are haters of the law or not. If you do/did then you have imagined that up in your mind, you certainly didn't get it from us.


Kinda off subject, but I fully agree. No need for Jesus to have given His life n the cruel Cross if we could pull ourselves up by our own boot straps.

Hello Bob:

I don't think you should be hostile about people who speak according to the Law, because the gospel is according to OT scriptures.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scripture.

I'm sure you know all these scriptures, seeing that that you consider the wisdom of the 10 commandments infantile.

By the way, the Gentiles are invited(commanded to come to the Feast of tabernacles). I imagine this will require them to observe the feast of Trumpets. Take my advice they're a good time, with much more substance than the pagan rituals of easter, christmas, and halloween.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

It is a time to glorify God in Christ, and pay your dues. Whoever appears empty-handed shall not be excepted for it would be like showing up for a wedding naked, how embarrassing.

Now you probably just missed it, that is a time to get the leavening out of your house.
The deceitfulness of sin needs to be cleaned out of your house unless you like living in LIES, and the world is full of it.

The pig is an animal that does not chew the cud. The thing that separates animals that are clean from unclean is how they eat, and how they move, and this is a wisdom that only the righteous will understand.

After all the confusion clears away, (after all the delusional are destroyed at the mountain gathering which is Armageddon) the confusion (Babylon) will be over and the salvation of those who praise God and His Word will be gathered to Eternity.

Don't be mad , get glad and rejoice in God's Word.

Hethatreadethit