War

[expos4ever]

We can pray and fight, as well though. We can pray, but that does not mean that we cannot or even should not defend ourselves and others with violence if need be.

That is clearly not what Jesus teaches. Most people agree with you. And, in a sense, I agree with you.

But Jesus is clear that we are to reject what our common sense tells us.

 

[W2L]

Agreed. In this thread, I provided a detailed argument explaining why the "buy a sword" teaching has nothing to with self-defense.

I know. Im feeling like they are toying with us, to derail the thread.

 

[dogs4thewin]

This isnt about a home invasion. Its about fighting war. Paul says we do not use carnal weapons to fight carnal war. Why do you ignore that scripture? You think that if Christians stopped fighting in wars, that justice wouldn't be done? What about prayer.

We can pray but that does not mean that we cannot or should not take action. I know many people who have had cancer I have prayed for them, but that does not mean that I advised them not to seek treatment from doctors. When people lose their jobs they can pray that God will provide, but that does not mean that they do not make an effort to find work to support themselves. Likewise, we can pray but that does not mean that we should not put actions with our prayers. God often expects actions with our prayers.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I know. Im feeling like they are toying with us, to derail the thread.

No, you do know that this thread is SEVERAL pages long by now. I am not asking that question to derail the thread.

 

[W2L]

We can pray but that does not mean that we cannot or should not take action. I know many people who have had cancer I have prayed for them, but that does not mean that I advised them not to seek treatment from doctors. When people lose their jobs they can pray that God will provide, but that does not mean that they do not make an effort to find work to support themselves. Likewise, we can pray but that does not mean that we should not put actions with our prayers. God often expects actions with our prayers.

I have been waiting for this argument since the beginning of the thread. I knew it would come up.

My answer would be that Jesus taught us to take no thought for our life, but in all things to pray. Paul says the same thing when he tells us to be careful for nothing, but in all things pray. I believe James also teaches us to pray for all things. He says we have not because we ask not. Of course we must be in obedience to God or he will not hear our prayers. Peter affirmed this when he quoted a Psalm.

See, the answer is prayer and obedience to God.

 

[W2L]

No, you do know that this thread is SEVERAL pages long by now. I am not asking that question to derail the thread.

I'll take your word for it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I have been waiting for this argument since the beginning of the thread. I knew it would come up.

My answer would be that Jesus taught us to take no thought for our life, but in all things to pray. Paul says the same thing when he tells us to be careful for nothing, but in all things pray. I believe James also teaches us to pray for all things. He says we have not because we ask not. Of course we must be in obedience to God or he will not hear our prayers. Peter affirmed this when he quoted a Psalm.

See, the answer is prayer and obedience to God.

Sometimes that obedience requires action and not just prayer. God (through Paul says those who do not work should not eat. Does that mean that if you lose your job you cannot or should not pray for God to provide? No, but it DOES mean that you cannot just pray and expect things to be done it takes a certain level of action.

 

[expos4ever]

So if you were say being raped you would have a problem with someone using force ( lethal or not to stop it?

Let's slow down a bit. This thread is about war. Even if there is a "just war", I suggest that no war in living memory is such a "just war". I will have to get back to you on the scenario you describe in this post.

However, even though my intuition says otherwise, Jesus tells us to love enemies. Clearly that doesn't seem to make sense given our powerful self-preservation instinct.

But it is what it is.

 

[SeventyOne]

Paul said we do NOT fight carnal wars.

No he didn't. You are adding context that isn't there.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He says we have not because we ask not.

Also even if not asking amiss for selfish reasons at all,
the most common answers by far available are carnal
just like the world's answers about war vs prayer,

Sometimes that obedience requires action and not just prayer.

"For lack of knowledge, MY people perish" God says,
and this happens concerning every day , war, and disease.

People get and go after the world's answers and fail.

People living with God's answers are shunned and rejected like Jesus is by the world.

 

[W2L]

Sometimes that obedience requires action and not just prayer. God (through Paul says those who do not work should not eat. Does that mean that if you lose your job you cannot or should not pray for God to provide? No, but it DOES mean that you cannot just pray and expect things to be done it takes a certain level of action.

Of course we should work. Thats a strawman however.

The action God wants is that be obey Him and pray.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We can pray but that does not mean that we cannot or should not take action. I know many people who have had cancer I have prayed for them, but that does not mean that I advised them not to seek treatment from doctors. When people lose their jobs they can pray that God will provide, but that does not mean that they do not make an effort to find work to support themselves. Likewise, we can pray but that does not mean that we should not put actions with our prayers. God often expects actions with our prayers.

So instead of waiting until you get a clear and proven testable answer from God, this sounds like saying pray and then do what the pagans do - what the normal person in the world does, without continuing to pray and keep seeking for what is for sure of God ?
Maybe this is a bit extreme, so clarify if you can ?

 

[W2L]

No he didn't. You are adding context that isn't there.

lol. Its in plain language. It couldn't be plainer.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Of course we should work. Thats a strawman however.

The action God wants is that be obey Him and pray.

Praying is an action, but that is not the only action that is sometimes called for.

 

[SeventyOne]

lol. Its in plain language. It couldn't be plainer.

I know, that's why I don't know why you are adding to it.

 

[W2L]

I know, that's why I don't know why you are adding to it.

I didnt add. I quoted it word for word multiple times.

 

[SeventyOne]

I didnt add. I quoted it word for word multiple times.

You did, but not the context of those words, which is what I was talking about.

 

[W2L]

Praying is an action, but that is not the only action that is sometimes called for.

Again, we must separate the Church from the military. God fights the wars, not the Church. The war He has given us is not carnal, as Paul teaches us.

 

[W2L]

You did, but not the context of those words, which is what I was talking about.

Paul states a clear fact. The context doesnt contradict anything i have said.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Again, we must separate the Church from the military. God fights the wars, not the Church. The war He has given us is not carnal, as Paul teaches us.

I tell you what you are free to not serve but do not judge those who have chosen to or would have chosen to do so had their health allowed ( like me).