Sabbath & Holy Days NECESSARY for salvation.

[Soyeong]

The law is abolished for believers who are led by the Spirit not the letter of the law. Paul contrasted the Spirit and the letter (Torah) over and over in his writings.

The issue of the letter of the Law versus the spirit of the Law is not in regard to whether we should obey God's commands or not, but in regard to how we should obey them, according to exactly how it is written or with regard to the intent behind the Law. This is also reflected in modern discussions about laws. Jesus said that faith was one of the more important aspects of the Law and said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands, so the intent behind obedience to God's commands is to grow in a relationship with Him based on faith and love. A relationship with Messiah is the goal of obedience to the Law (Romans 10:4), so someone who outwardly obeys God's Law, but without inwardly growing in a relationship with Messiah is missing the whole point, which is why Paul counted having done that as rubbish (Philippians 3:8). The Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to God's Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so if we are led by the Spirit, then will will live in obedience to the Law.

Furthermore, Jesus directly said that he didn't come to abolish the Law (Matthew 5:17) and Paul also said that our faith does not abolish the Law (Romans 3:31).

 

[bloodygrace]

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus criticized the Pharisees for keeping parts of the Law, but neglecting the more important parts of the Law of justice, mercy, and faith. So while I completely agree that works without faith are just as dead as faith without works, it is false that works without faith is all Law-keepers have. Straightforwardly obedience to God's commands is about having faith in Him about how we should live. God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good, so those who believe what God said is true and have faith in God to guide them in how they should live demonstrate their faith through living in obedience to His commands, as James did. It is worthless for someone to say that they have faith in God to guide them in how they should rightly live while refusing to live according to His instructions for that.

Faith and Love in and of themselves are obedience to God's commands. The law doesn't even come into play. I believe in Jesus and he implants his love in my heart which makes all my works acceptable to him. There is no law keeping in that.

 

[Soyeong]

Faith and Love in and of themselves are obedience to God's commands. The law doesn't even come into play. I believe in Jesus and he implants his love in my heart which makes all my works acceptable to him. There is no law keeping in that.

Jesus summarized the Law as being God's instructions for how to love Him and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40). God's Law is His instructions for how to do works that are acceptable to Him, so it doesn't make any sense to say that God is putting his love in your heart which makes you do works that are acceptable to Him while insisting that there is no law keeping in that. You can not love God and others in the way that God wants you to without acting in accordance with His instructions for that by faith.

 

[bloodygrace]

Jesus summarized the Law as being God's instructions for how to love Him and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40). God's Law is His instructions for how to do works that are acceptable to Him, so it doesn't make any sense to say that God is putting his love in your heart which makes you do works that are acceptable to Him while insisting that there is no law keeping in that. You can not love God and others in the way that God wants you to without acting in accordance with His instructions for that by faith.

No, under the new covenant the law (love) is written in the heart and our obedience becomes automatic. Paul described it as entering into God's rest where we put an end to our own labors. You're still working when you should be resting in Christ.

 

[Soyeong]

No, under the new covenant the law (love) is written in the heart and our obedience becomes automatic. Paul described it as entering into God's rest where we put an end to our own labors. You're still working when you should be resting in Christ.

The way to rest for our souls is through following Christ's example of obedience to the Law (Matthew 11:28-30):

Jeremiah 6:16-19 Thus says the Lord: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17 I set watchmen over you, saying, ‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’ 18 Therefore hear, O nations, and know, O congregation, what will happen to them. 19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

 

[bloodygrace]

The way to rest for our souls is through following Christ's example of obedience to the Law (Matthew 11:28-30):

Jeremiah 6:16-19 Thus says the Lord: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17 I set watchmen over you, saying, ‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’ 18 Therefore hear, O nations, and know, O congregation, what will happen to them. 19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

No this is not resting at all!

 

[bugkiller]

Faith without works is dead, you can believe in Christ all you want, but its that belief that should have Holy behavior attached to it, other wise you are luke warm and Christ already said what will be done with luke warmers.

Works of the law are dead works.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

There is a world of difference between saying that you don't need to obey the Law and saying that you don't need to obey the Law in order to become justified.

And that would be....

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The issue of the letter of the Law versus the spirit of the Law is not in regard to whether we should obey God's commands or not, but in regard to how we should obey them, according to exactly how it is written or with regard to the intent behind the Law. This is also reflected in modern discussions about laws. Jesus said that faith was one of the more important aspects of the Law and said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands, so the intent behind obedience to God's commands is to grow in a relationship with Him based on faith and love. A relationship with Messiah is the goal of obedience to the Law (Romans 10:4), so someone who outwardly obeys God's Law, but without inwardly growing in a relationship with Messiah is missing the whole point, which is why Paul counted having done that as rubbish (Philippians 3:8). The Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to God's Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so if we are led by the Spirit, then will will live in obedience to the Law.

No. Gal 5:18. The Spirit does not lead us back to the law issued at Sinai.

Furthermore, Jesus directly said that he didn't come to abolish the Law (Matthew 5:17) and Paul also said that our faith does not abolish the Law (Romans 3:31).

Jesus came to fulfill (make the contract finished) the law to which He testified He did in LK 24:44. In LK 16:16 Luke states the law is a has been. BTW Luke is not tho only one making such remarks indicating the law is no longer.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

No this is not resting at all!

Indeed it is resting in Christ:

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

A yoke is a rabbinic term where a disciple would come under a rabbi's yoke and learn from them how to follow the Torah by memorizing their teachings and following their example. Messiah's example was one of complete obedience to the Torah, so to take his yoke on you would be learn his teachings and to follow his example, and if you will take his yoke upon you, then you will find rest for your souls, which is a reference to Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is equated with the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

 

[bugkiller]

No, under the new covenant the law (love) is written in the heart and our obedience becomes automatic. Paul described it as entering into God's rest where we put an end to our own labors. You're still working when you should be resting in Christ.

That is exactly what Jesus offered in Mat 11:28-30.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Indeed it is resting in Christ:

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

A yoke is a rabbinic term where a disciple would come under a rabbi's yoke and learn from them how to follow the Torah by memorizing their teachings and following their example. Messiah's example was one of complete obedience to the Torah, so to take his yoke on you would be learn his teachings and to follow his example, and if you will take his yoke upon you, then you will find rest for your souls, which is a reference to Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is equated with the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

No the yoke of Jesus is His commandments - Jn 15:10. The commandments of Jesus are not the commandments issued at Sinai.

bugkiller

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

HE says "MY YOKE IS EASY, and MY burden(should be better word here) is light"

MOSES commandments ARE NOT burdensome....

 

[Soyeong]

HE says "MY YOKE IS EASY, and MY burden(should be better word here) is light"

MOSES commandments ARE NOT burdensome....

Indeed, God said that they were not too difficult (Deuteronomy 30:11-14, Romans 10:5-10) and elsewhere the Bible confirms that the commands of God are not burdensome (1 John 5:3).

 

[bloodygrace]

Indeed it is resting in Christ:

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

A yoke is a rabbinic term where a disciple would come under a rabbi's yoke and learn from them how to follow the Torah by memorizing their teachings and following their example. Messiah's example was one of complete obedience to the Torah, so to take his yoke on you would be learn his teachings and to follow his example, and if you will take his yoke upon you, then you will find rest for your souls, which is a reference to Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is equated with the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

Wrong. Christ's council to the church is found in the book of Revelation to the seven churches of Asia minor. He even spoke of the synagogue of Satan coming and bowing at the feet of Christians. Jesus was not politically correct and presented Torah observant Jews in the most derogatory way.

 

[bloodygrace]

HE says "MY YOKE IS EASY, and MY burden(should be better word here) is light"

MOSES commandments ARE NOT burdensome....

Yes they are. A yoke which Peter nor the fathers were able to bear.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There are millions of SDA of all different shapes, sizes and colors. Think you know em' all! lol

No, but neither do you. Remember that when you want to come against a whole denomination.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes they are. A yoke which Peter nor the fathers were able to bear.

According to Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and Romans 10:5-10, God said that what he commanded was not too difficult, so to say that God's commands are a burden which no one could bear would be directly contradicting God. In 1 John 5:3, it also confirms that the commands of God are not burdensome. Rather, Jesus said that his yoke was light and easy, while it was that yoke of the Pharisees that Jesus compared to being a heavy burden (Matthew 23:2-4), so Acts 15:10 was simply expressing the same opinion of Pharisaic traditions that Jesus expressed. In Matthew 15:2-3, Jesus was asked why his disciples broke the traditions of the elders and he responded by asking them why they broke the command of God for the sake of their traditions. He then went on to say that for the sake of their tradition they made void the Word of God (Matthew 15:6), he quoted Isaiah to say that they worshiped God in vain because they were teaching as doctrines the commands of men (Matthew 15:8-9), and he called them hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions (Mark 7:6-9). So the yoke of the Pharisees was not the commands of God, but rather their yoke made void the commands of God for the sake of their traditions, and it is the traditions of the elders that neither Peter nor his fathers were able to bear. On the other hand, Jesus said that his yoke was light and easy, which is the Torah that he taught by word and by example.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for staff review because of flaming. Please review the
Statement of Purpose which includes:
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• Do not identify a group of members or a theological viewpoint with a derogatory or inflammatory label.
• Do not use words or phrases which other members have indicated are offensive and derogatory.
• Words and phrases which have a negative connotation in Scripture should not be used to describe a member, group of members, or a theological viewpoint. Some examples (including but not limited to): false gospel, false prophet, false doctrine, heretics, blasphemers, evil, sheep in wolves clothing, different God, Judaizers, judaizing.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread has had a clean up and is being reopened.
​