I've been drinking --- So I've got something I want to say.

[MikeK]

Are you straight too? I guess there exists no problems in the entire world then

I am, as a matter of fact.

I'm also kind of a character and not a great Christian, and I like to have a little fun now and then. A few weeks back I was driving my recently-purchased sportscar 4 States from home and I got pulled over for exceeding the speed limit by over 20mph. Guilty, no argument. I also had a handgun (legal) and drugs (not legal) in the car. I was asked for my license, nothing else. Not proof of insurance even though it is required in the State in question. I was never asked if I had a gun or drugs in the car. The Officer said "I'll write you for 12 over, is that fair?" I agreed and was on my way. Now, I'm not a lower class black male in a 1989 Caprice, but I'm certain the treatment would have been the same...I don't know why some people complain so much, the world seems fair in my experience.

 

[rturner76]

Also the States that didn't the the Medicare money basically put their citizens in a horrible bind. Without the Medicare expansion the subsidies aren't available and the whole thing breaks down.

It the State would just work with the ACA people could get insurance and not be, you know, dying. The number of people who are dead because of GOP controlled states not taking the Medicaid expansion should make a pro-lifers head blow off.

Gad Zooks~Those left wing communist states with their health care. Pretty soon they are going to want free education

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I am, as a matter of fact.

I'm also kind of a character and not a great Christian, and I like to have a little fun now and then. A few weeks back I was driving my recently-purchased sportscar 4 States from home and I got pulled over for exceeding the speed limit by over 20mph. Guilty, no argument. I also had a handgun (legal) and drugs (not legal) in the car. I was asked for my license, nothing else. Not proof of insurance even though it is required in the State in question. I was never asked if I had a gun or drugs in the car. The Officer said "I'll write you for 12 over, is that fair?" I agreed and was on my way. Now, I'm not a lower class black male in a 1989 Caprice, but so am certain the treatment would have been the same...I don't know why some people complain so much, the world seems fair in my experience.

True story:

This is were I learned about white privilege.

I get 5 of my wife's best friends together and make some wine punch and have an Italian place cater a party for her 50th birthday. Me and 3 of the husbands hit Eat Street in Minneapolis and begin a really catastrophic pub crawl. The last husband, who happens to be a gentle of color (ok he's black) meets up with us about 4 hours later. Since he's the only sober one in the bunch he's going to drive us all home. So we got 4 giggly pasty faced white guys in the back seat of a Suburban with a black guy driving.

5 blocks and BOOM.

We get pulled over. The cop pulls the driver out and accuses him of being high on dope. He never even talked to us.

That's when I learned

 

[rturner76]

I am, as a matter of fact.

I'm also kind of a character and not a great Christian, and I like to have a little fun now and then. A few weeks back I was driving my recently-purchased sportscar 4 States from home and I got pulled over for exceeding the speed limit by over 20mph. Guilty, no argument. I also had a handgun (legal) and drugs (not legal) in the car. I was asked for my license, nothing else. Not proof of insurance even though it is required in the State in question. I was never asked if I had a gun or drugs in the car. The Officer said "I'll write you for 12 over, is that fair?" I agreed and was on my way. Now, I'm not a lower class black male in a 1989 Caprice, but so am certain the treatment would have been the same...I don't know why some people complain so much, the world seems fair in my experience.

You categorize that as "fair" treatment, as in it's no different, or better than anybody else gets treated? I can see why a straight white educated male who grew up with professional parents would feel that way, probably having neeb treated "fairly" his whole life. However if he ever happened to be treated "unfairly" for being in possession of something illegal (depending on what it was and how much of course), there is a slight chance he may go where his parents and education cannot help him. Then again, he can count on "fair" treatment from the justice system.

 

[rturner76]

True story:

This is were I learned about white privilege.

I get 5 of my wife's best friends together and make some wine punch and have an Italian place cater a party for her 50th birthday. Me and 3 of the husbands hit Eat Street in Minneapolis and begin a really catastrophic pub crawl. The last husband, who happens to be a gentle of color (ok he's black) meets up with us about 4 hours later. Since he's the only sober one in the bunch he's going to drive us all home. So we got 4 giggly pasty faced white guys in the back seat of a Suburban with a black guy driving.

5 blocks and BOOM.

We get pulled over. The cop pulls the driver out and accuses him of being high on dope. He never even talked to us.

That's when I learned

5th precinct sucks nowadays for anybody different. They don't want anybody over there but Yuppies and Hipsters.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Sustainable is an odd term to use in this case. The ACA needs work, all complex legislation does, especially when it effects a public policy initiative like healthcare. But rather than actually look at the law, see where it needed improvements and working toward that end the GOP decided it was a good idea to have 50 repeal votes and run on repealing it.

Well, as it transpires people like having healthcare and they aren't going to give it up without a huge fight. So now what a GOPer to do ? You can't repeal it and you can't try to improve it without tinkering with it and the 40 members of the Freedom Caucus will have none of that, so they're stuck. As near as I can tell the only way around all this is to actually work with the Dems on improving the ACA. Not repeal, not replace, improve. And I'm sorry but I don't think Ryan is smart enough nor a good enough leader to pull that off. Trump, on the other hand is both manipulable and really annoyed with his own party. I see an opening for the Dems here




True is a funny word to use in this case. When Obama said it it was, in fact, a true statement. There was nothing in the ACA that would stop you from keeping your doctor. But neither he nor the ACA nor Congress could have foreseen the insurance companies actions on the exchanges. Basically the insurance companies goofed with the policies (as is their right and privilege as private companies) to screw up everyone's plans in an attempt to keep their profits as high as possible. But I think we have to come to grips with the fact the insurers did that to you, not the ACA per se.

As far premiums going down is concerned, they have. Just not for most people. Premiums have gone down for people with individual polices when compared to like polices before the ACA. Admittedly that's a small number of people. But more to the point: Health care insurance costs are growing at a much lower rate now then before the ACA and at a lower rate then the CBO predicted in 2010. Also healthcare costs themselves are also growing much slower and we're collectively going to save 600 billion (yes over half a trillion) dollars in healthcare costs by 2020 or maybe 2025 I can't remember because of the ACA.

Now, I just had to write 2 complicated paragraphs to answer your bumper stick soundbite question. And that was part of the problem for Obama and the Dems and is now the problem for the GOP and Trump. This is a big, hard, complex, boring, numbers oriented, statistically derived issue involving a piece of legislation that only one person I know of understands.



Strategy is an odd word to use for this. If you're in power and chose to do nothing all you're doing is letting the other side take the initiative. Trust me on this the Dems are not going to sit idly by while you ignore the problems with the ACA. They will start making proposals to improve the ACA and doing nothing on your part will not be good for you.

The Republicans are in the same position. They can't repeal the ACA and they can't leave it alone. The Dems are already putting forth the idea of Medicare as an option in the exchanges and lowering the Medicare age to 62, both ideas that WILL lower premiums by taking older people out of the private insurance market . That's going to be the conversation driver from now on, not how do we rid ourselves of the ACA.

The GOP has lost the initiative on this by being unable to take any action on their own.

Charlie were you not whining last week as to why I was being aggressive toward you even though you keep making snide and crude remarks toward me? Maybe you shouldn't post under the influence. Your posts seem disjointed and not making much sense when you do.

I posted a year back on my experience of looking over various policies , bronze, platinum, silver or gold on the Massachusetts State Connector portal. I tried various scenarious for a single male and the cheapest plane the bronze had the highest deductibles and co-pays and the cost of the plan was over $700.00 a month. On top on this :

Office visit was $50.00
Emergency room visit was $700.00
Annual deductible was $2000.00
Impatient hospitalization was $1000.00
Imaging, i.e. Xrays or MRI was $1000.00

This is just a rough scetch. How is this affordable?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charlie were you not whining last week as to why I was being aggressive toward you even though you keep making snide and crude remarks toward me? Maybe you shouldn't post under the influence. Your posts seem disjointed and not making much sense when you do.

I posted a year back on my experience of looking over various policies , bronze, platinum, silver or gold on the Massachusetts State Connector portal. I tried various scenarious for a single male and the cheapest plane the bronze had the highest deductibles and co-pays and the cost of the plan was over $700.00 a month. On top on this :

Office visit was $50.00
Emergency room visit was $700.00
Annual deductible was $2000.00
Impatient hospitalization was $1000.00
Imaging, i.e. Xrays or MRI was $1000.00

This is just a rough scetch. How is this affordable?

I don't have any clue as to how you took what I think is a reasoned and dispassionate answer to your questions as some sort of aggression.

Just because I refuse to agree with what are basically lies and half truths about the ACA this shouldn't be considered aggression. I'm not accusing you of lying btw but the lies have been told so often that people actually believe them, which is part of the problem for anyone in power trying to fix the law.

Now, I honestly cannot speak to your specific situation and don't want to because I don't know anything about it. All I can say is this:

1) The only person I know of who actually understands this large piece of legislation is a healthcare analyst/journalist name Jacki Scheckner. According to her analysis of people, who like you, are suffering under severe costs burdens fall into two broad categorizes, those who actually fell into the cracks of the ACA and those who are not availing themselves of the subsidies available under the law. The latter group is much larger than the former and the reason they are not availing themselves of the subsidies are many and varied. As far as those in the cracks, well, this is one of those things that needs to be fixed and, or course, the GOP controlled Congress has been refusing to fix the law for 5 years.

I need to point out also (and without any aggressiveness) that as a resident of Massachusetts you actually had Romenycare before the ACA and it was, by every indication working very well. The ACA is essentially Romenycare on a national level so we know it can work if maintained properly.

{edit} Also, after re-reading my post on the subject I don't think it's fair to characterize it as "whining".

{edit} Also, after read a number of posts to you I honestly can't find any that could be considered snide or crude. When I'm snide I usually know it and I really try hard not to be crude, it's not my style really. I am missing something ?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I don't have any clue as to how you took what I think is a reasoned and dispassionate answer to your questions as some sort of aggression.

Just because I refuse to agree with what are basically lies and half truths about the ACA this shouldn't be considered aggression. I'm not accusing you of lying btw but the lies have been told so often that people actually believe them, which is part of the problem for anyone in power trying to fix the law.

Now, I honestly cannot speak to your specific situation and don't want to because I don't know anything about it. All I can say is this:

1) The only person I know of who actually understands this large piece of legislation is a healthcare analyst/journalist name Jacki Scheckner. According to her analysis of people, who like you, are suffering under severe costs burdens fall into two broad categorizes, those who actually fell into the cracks of the ACA and those who are not availing themselves of the subsidies available under the law. The latter group is much larger than the former and the reason they are not availing themselves of the subsidies are many and varied. As far as those in the cracks, well, this is one of those things that needs to be fixed and, or course, the GOP controlled Congress has been refusing to fix the law for 5 years.

I need to point out also (and without any aggressiveness) that as a resident of Massachusetts you actually had Romenycare before the ACA and it was, by every indication working very well. The ACA is essentially Romenycare on a national level so we know it can work if maintained properly.

{edit} Also, after re-reading my post on the subject I don't think it's fair to characterize it as "whining".

{edit} Also, after read a number of posts to you I honestly can't find any that could be considered snide or crude. When I'm snide I usually know it and I really try hard not to be crude, it's not my style really. I am missing something ?

Romneycare was not working well. The constant political discussion was its increasing portion of the fiscal pie and how it was affecting funding of other services.

Most workin folk don't qualify for Obamacare subsidies.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Most workin folk don't qualify for Obamacare subsidies.

Actually that isn't true. According to the CBO almost 20 million people on the exchanges qualify for subsidies.

But why should anyone believe the CBO ?

The Kaiser Institutes says about 17 million but the Kaiser institute has something to do with abortion so who believes them ?

How about these guys ?

The ACA’s cost-sharing subsidies

They're actually a organization of health insurers. Private business types. They're saying 85% of people on the exchanges can be subsidies and/or tax credits.

 

[Miss Shelby]

The theory of white privilege was written by a white well off woman whose tenure is in academia. She has never lived in a poor predominantly black area and especially not as a child. She has no idea what its like to be white, poor, father abandoned, raised on welfare by a mentally ill mother with no avenue which leads to support . The theory of white privilege can kiss my gluteus maximums. And so can she.

 

[rturner76]

The theory of white privilege was written by a white well off woman whose tenure is in academia. She has never lived in a poor predominantly black area and especially not as a child. She has no idea what its like to be white, poor, father abandoned, raised on welfare by a mentally ill mother with no avenue which leads to support . The theory of white privilege can kiss my gluteus maximums. And so can she.

That's fine, you don't have to acknowledge it for it to exist. On the one hand it's bad because you won't be trying to stop perpetuating it, one the other hand it's good because you won't actively take advantage of it.

 

[rturner76]

Could be that you're so used to it, at this point you don't even notice it?

 

[Miss Shelby]

That's fine, you don't have to acknowledge it for it to exist. On the one hand it's bad because you won't be trying to stop perpetuating it, one the other hand it's good because you won't actively take advantage of it.

That's fine, you don't have to acknowledge it for it to exist. On the one hand it's bad because you won't be trying to stop perpetuating it, one the other hand it's good because you won't actively take advantage of it.

how do you know it exists?

 

[Miss Shelby]

Could be that you're so used to it, at this point you don't even notice it?

What is your story? You judge. I want to know your history.

 

[Miss Shelby]

That's fine, you don't have to acknowledge it for it to exist. On the one hand it's bad because you won't be trying to stop perpetuating it, one the other hand it's good because you won't actively take advantage of it.

And you seem to be saying hey good your childhood sucked. Now you know what a sucky life means. But the author of white privilege knows no such poverty. How can you support it?

 

[rturner76]

And you seem to be saying hey good your childhood sucked. Now you know what a sucky life means. But the author of white privilege knows no such poverty. How can you support it?

There are a couple examples of how white privilege works in a few posts in this thread. I must say I'm not familiar with the particulars of this woman's book but I have seen situations in my own personal life where the fact that someone was white seemed to either get them out of trouble or help them gain a favorable position when confronted by law enforcement personnel.

 

[Miss Shelby]

There are a couple examples of how white privilege works in a few posts in this thread. I must say I'm not familiar with the particulars of this woman's book but I have seen situations in my own personal life where the fact that someone was white seemed to either get them out of trouble or help them gain a favorable position when confronted by law enforcement personnel.

And ill bet you for every one of those examples, there are examples of the opposite. Just not widely publicized and made a huge victimization of.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

The theory of white privilege was written by a white well off woman whose tenure is in academia. She has never lived in a poor predominantly black area and especially not as a child. She has no idea what its like to be white, poor, father abandoned, raised on welfare by a mentally ill mother with no avenue which leads to support . The theory of white privilege can kiss my gluteus maximums. And so can she.

Charlie should read the best seller "All Souls" by Michael Patrick McDonald . In it he tells the story of growing up in "Southie" South Boston, once known to have the highest concentration of white poverty in America. A neighbor that had a higher suicide rate than any of the black poor neighborhoods in Boston. A neighborhood run by organized crime mobster Whitey Bulger.

They were ignored by the social do good phoneys from Harvard and elswhere because they didn't fit the narrative. They were allowed to suffer without help or funding or any other assistance simply because they were white.



All Souls: A Family Story from Southie: Michael Patrick MacDonald: 9780807072134: Amazon.com: Books

 

[MikeK]

I didn't happen to me today. I really did get a ticket by a white cop because I barely tapped this Hispanic women. According to white privilege doctrine she should have been given the ticket.

That isn't exactly how it works. The idea of white privilage isn't that whites will always getaway with everything because they are white, it is that being white is an advantage that will unfairly tip the scales. You've seen examples in this thread. Another example is the repeated studies that show that on identical resumes, people with "white sounding" names get callbacks at a significantly higher rate than people with "black sounding" names. That sometimes white people are treated fairly or even discriminated against for being white is not evidence that white privilage doesn't exist.

 

[Antigone]

Why you yanks are so opposed to universal health care coverage is beyond me. It's insurance. By the time you need it, it's too late. Even a superfit twenty year old can get run over by a bus.

Yeah, I know. Socialism. Yak yak yak. Ooh, you know who else doesn't have comprehensive health insurance? Syria. Afghanistan. India. Good list to be on, guys.

{edit} Also, after re-reading my post on the subject I don't think it's fair to characterize it as "whining".

{edit} Also, after read a number of posts to you I honestly can't find any that could be considered snide or crude. When I'm snide I usually know it and I really try hard not to be crude, it's not my style really. I am missing something ?

To a certain subset of people here disagreement can be qualified as either 'whining' (i.e. factual retorts) or aggression (i.e. calling them out on their nonsense).

Keep the truth evangelism going, Cos. If you're making them mad you're hitting home.