The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

[bugkiller]

The Law external on stone - or the same law internal written on the human heart - the one with "do not take God's name in vain still in it"?

You did not answer the question as usual. Please answer my question about v 9. Thanks

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

YOUR source is a religious publication with no affiliation.
bugkiller

What in the world are you talking about? I find your cryptic logic "illusive"

 

[BobRyan]

You did not answer the question as usual. Please answer my question about v 9. Thanks

bugkiller

You asked what is in vs 9... we can all read it.

I pointed you to a Bible "detail" that does not fit your speculation so far.

The Law external on stone (Old Covenant) - or the same law internal written on the human heart (New Covenant) - the one with "do not take God's name in vain still in it" --

Perhaps you would like to see the New Covenant quoted.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You asked what is in vs 9... we can all read it.

I pointed you to a Bible "detail" that does not fit your speculation so far.

The Law external on stone (Old Covenant) - or the same law internal written on the human heart (New Covenant) - the one with "do not take God's name in vain still in it" --

Perhaps you would like to see the New Covenant quoted.

Bob, I'm trying to catch up here. Fill me in on why you keep mentioning taking God's name in vain. Why that commandment? And what scripture are you referencing?

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, I'm trying to catch up here. Fill me in on why you keep mentioning taking God's name in vain. Why that commandment? And what scripture are you referencing?

The scripture reference in that quote is Hebrews 8:6-10 and Jeremiah 31:31-33 for the NEW Covenant where the LAW of God is written on the heart and mind. Hebrews 8 is a verbatim quote of Jeremiah 31 and exegesis demands that the definition for the term "LAW" be something known to the writer and his readers - Jeremiah in this case.

Exodus 20:7 is the commandment to not take God's name in vain -- it is the only commandment in the TEN - that is never quoted (not even in part) in the NT. Nor is it found in Genesis. (All the old saws used against the Bible Sabbath that were not true). Yet all Christians can easily see that this commandment is still applicable to Christians. It undoes one of their favorite arguments against the Bible Sabbath.

Same thing with the New Covenant Law written on the heart and the fact that it also must include Exodus 20:7. By having this example of a commandment almost never mentioned - that all Christians fully accept - we have the undoing of almost every argument against the TEN and even against the Sabbath.

Notice in my signature line - I point out that almost all Bible scholars in every major denomination agree that the TEN commandments are included in the still-valid moral-law of God that "defines what sin is" 1 John 3:4. Thus the same LAW that condemns all as sinners in Romans 3:19-20 is the same law "Established by our faith" in Romans 3:31 under the NEW Covenant.

An example of Bible scholars accepting the TEN -- "The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19" shows it. And so also the "Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19" As well as documents on statement of faith from all the other groups I list in my signature line.

 

[Bob S]

Wha-huh?? derail "your post"??

A learned man cannot understand that instead of answering my valid question he instead switched subjects to avoid answering. OY!

Only you can do that - you are the only one that can edit your own post and change it.

I don't want to change my post. Again, why did Paul write in 2Cor 7-11 that the 10 commandments were temporary? You are a pastor and you refuse to answer or use your well known avoidance method when it is not to your benefit to answer? Is this your way of teaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ?

This thread is my thread

Real big deal. Well, it becomes everyone's thread once you post it. It is not up to your discretion to tell anyone what can be written on "your" thread.

- the subject is this "The seventh day the SABBATH of the LORD (YHWH) thy God"

The only "derailing" that CAN happen (by definition) is that someone would add a post that does not have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

And I am within the bounds of the thread asking a question as to why Paul wrote that the 10 Commandment, where we find the Sabbath command, has become defunct and now is history along with the remainder of Torah?

Now to the title of "your" thread. God was also Lord of feasts, statutes and commandments written in the Law of Moses. (see below) Why are SDAs avoiding observance of most all of them? In your derailed post to another poster you claim SDAs are sola scriptural yet you only recognize the Lord your God's 10 commandments and a couple of laws from the law of Moses. I guess it would be too much to ask you to answer that conundrum?

1 Kings 2:3
And keep the charge of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

so "once again" I find your logic "illusive"

I find that amusing, but everyone has their own opinions, but I would have thought you would have jumped at the chance to explain away why Paul would have written that the 10 commandments were transitory. What Paul wrote there refutes much of what the SDAs claim to be the reason for their existence.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[1stcenturylady]

The scripture reference in that quote is Hebrews 8:6-10 and Jeremiah 31:31-33 for the NEW Covenant where the LAW of God is written on the heart and mind. Hebrews 8 is a verbatim quote of Jeremiah 31 and exegesis demands that the definition for the term "LAW" be something known to the writer and his readers - Jeremiah in this case.

Exodus 20:7 is the commandment to not take God's name in vain -- it is the only commandment in the TEN - that is never quoted (not even in part) in the NT. Nor is it found in Genesis. (All the old saws used against the Bible Sabbath that were not true). Yet all Christians can easily see that this commandment is still applicable to Christians. It undoes one of their favorite arguments against the Bible Sabbath.

Same thing with the New Covenant Law written on the heart and the fact that it also must include Exodus 20:7. By having this example of a commandment almost never mentioned - that all Christians fully accept - we have the undoing of almost every argument against the TEN and even against the Sabbath.

Notice in my signature line - I point out that almost all Bible scholars in every major denomination agree that the TEN commandments are included in the still-valid moral-law of God that "defines what sin is" 1 John 3:4. Thus the same LAW that condemns all as sinners in Romans 3:19-20 is the same law "Established by our faith" in Romans 3:31 under the NEW Covenant.

An example of Bible scholars accepting the TEN -- "The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19" shows it. And so also the "Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19" As well as documents on statement of faith from all the other groups I list in my signature line.

How do you see the feasts of the Lord. I don't believe SDAs keep the feasts. Why?

 

[Bob S]

Hi 1stcentury, Pastor Bob is very hard to get answeres out to questions he is asked. His telling us that the new covenant is the same as the old one does create a conundrum. There were 613 rules found in the old covenant, but Pastor Bob only subscribes to, I believe, 12 of them. The extra two are the meat laws and secondly the tithing law. Well, lets be clear about the tithing thing. What the SDA church subscribes to are the rules Ellen White and company set up to make their fledgling church stay afloat. Every SDA is required to pay 10% of their wages in shekels. The command God gave was that only those who raise crops and animals were required to pay tithe and it never was paid in shekels. The animals came to the storehouse on foot and the crops gleaned from the fields. The tent makers, shoe makers, and all of the remainder of the Israelites the law did not pertain. Why would you suppose Ellen and company got away with demanding that everyone pay what Jesus would not have paid and furthermore Ellen told the flock that if they didn't pay it they would loose their eternal inheritance? Some people allow others to lead them around by their noses never thinking for themselves, especially when the one leading claimed to be a prophet.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hi 1stcentury, Pastor Bob is very hard to get answeres out to questions he is asked. His telling us that the new covenant is the same as the old one does create a conundrum. There were 613 rules found in the old covenant, but Pastor Bob only subscribes to, I believe, 12 of them. The extra two are the meat laws and secondly the tithing law. Well, lets be clear about the tithing thing. What the SDA church subscribes to are the rules Ellen White and company set up to make their fledgling church stay afloat. Every SDA is required to pay 10% of their wages in shekels. The command God gave was that only those who raise crops and animals were required to pay tithe and it never was paid in shekels. The animals came to the storehouse on foot and the crops gleaned from the fields. The tent makers, shoe makers, and all of the remainder of the Israelites the law did not pertain. Why would you suppose Ellen and company got away with demanding that everyone pay what Jesus would not have paid and furthermore Ellen told the flock that if they didn't pay it they would loose their eternal inheritance? Some people allow others to lead them around by their noses never thinking for themselves, especially when the one leading claimed to be a prophet.

Do you honestly believe EGW influenced every denomination that believes in tithing? I don't know of a denomination that doesn't. There may be individuals and some non-denominational groups, and especially, house churches that don't, and follow 1st century giving practices of help to their own poor and widows, and following that age to outside poor, which brought in many to the love of God, but not denominations.

BobRyan will answer my question to him. You wait and see. Could be he is waiting until after sundown.

 

[Bob S]

Do you honestly believe EGW influenced every denomination that believes in tithing? I don't know of a denomination that doesn't. There may be individuals and some non-denominational groups, and especially, house churches that don't, and follow 1st century giving practices of help to their own poor and widows, and following that age to outside poor, which brought in many to the love of God, but not denominations.

BobRyan will answer my question to him. You wait and see. Could be he is waiting until after sundown.

Absolutely not and I didn't indicate that position. That doesn't make tithing a new covenant rule. Just because someone else is doing it does not make it right. Ellen was supposed to be a prophet. She should have known better.

The independent churches that are prospering have a much different approach as you indicated.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Absolutely not and I didn't indicate that position. That doesn't make tithing a new covenant rule. Just because someone else is doing it does not make it right. Ellen was supposed to be a prophet. She should have known better.

The independent churches that are prospering have a much different approach as you indicated.

I believe there was something of God's supernatural power going on in EGW, but I don't believe it was 24/7. Not everything she wrote was scriptural, but, then again, I don't believe all the writings attributed to her, she actually wrote. So don't mock her.

 

[BobRyan]

Do you honestly believe EGW influenced every denomination that believes in tithing? I don't know of a denomination that doesn't.

Agreed -- such is not the case. And the denominations I list here - that affirm the continued TEN Commandments as the moral law of God - did not "get that from Ellen White" - as we all know.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan will answer my question to him. You wait and see. Could be he is waiting until after sundown.

The church I go to is a bit old fashioned heavily influenced by island-church culture - which means they tend to do "all-day-church" activities - so I am lucky to get home by 5 or 6 pm on the average Sabbath.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Agreed -- such is not the case. And the denominations I list here - that affirm the continued TEN Commandments as the moral law of God - did not "get that from Ellen White" - as we all know.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

The church I go to is a bit old fashioned heavily influenced by island-church culture - which means they tend to do "all-day-church" activities - so I am lucky to get home by 5 or 6 pm on the average Sabbath.

Don't forget #387

 

[BobRyan]

How do you see the feasts of the Lord. I don't believe SDAs keep the feasts. Why?

We don't keep feast days because in Hebrews 7 we are told that the earthly priesthood ends giving way to the High Priestly Ministry of Christ in heaven. In Hebrews 10 we are told that the animal sacrifices and the offerings cease - which means the entire liturgy for the annual feasts of Lev 23 ended so far as it dealt with "sacrifices and offerings" once Christ was crucified "once for all" atoning sacrifice completed at the cross.

Hebrews 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Without the priest and without the liturgy - the feast has no form of "observance" left to it - at least not a liturgy that is actually specified in the Bible.

By contrast in Isaiah 66:23 God says of the entire span of eternity in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". He does not say "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to offer animal sacrifices " in the eternity with the New Heavens and New Earth.

(BTW - I think Bob S has seen this same answer given by me to this same question several times. So I find it "instructive" that he now predicts this same question will not get the same answer "again". )

 

[1stcenturylady]

We don't keep feast days because in Hebrews 7 we are told that the earthly priesthood ends giving way to the High Priestly Ministry of Christ in heaven. In Hebrews 10 we are told that the animal sacrifices and the offerings cease - which means the entire liturgy for the annual feasts of Lev 23 ended so far as it dealt with "sacrifices and offerings" once Christ was crucified "once for all" atoning sacrifice completed at the cross.

Hebrews 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Without the priest and without the liturgy - the feast has no form of "observance" left to it - at least not a liturgy that is actually specified in the Bible.

By contrast in Isaiah 66:23 God says of the entire span of eternity in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". He does not say "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to offer animal sacrifices " in the eternity with the New Heavens and New Earth.

(BTW - I think Bob S has seen this same answer given by me to this same question several times. So I find it "instructive" that he now predicts this same question will not get the same answer "again". )

Leviticus 23 does give the list of feasts of the Lord. What is the first one?

 

[BobRyan]

Leviticus 23 does give the list of feasts of the Lord. What is the first one?

Looks like passover and unleavened bread are the first of the annual Sabbaths in Lev 23.

Hence my statement that you quoted -- ". In Hebrews 10 we are told that the animal sacrifices and the offerings cease - which means the entire liturgy for the annual feasts of Lev 23 ended so far as it dealt with "sacrifices and offerings" once Christ was crucified "once for all" atoning sacrifice completed at the cross."

The weekly seventh day Sabbath is neither a feast nor annual.

But it is " A day of holy convocation"

And as Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 and the Bible scholarship on both sides of the question admit - from the list below in the signature line - the weekly Sabbath begins with Adam before the fall - without a priest, without animal sacrifice. And in Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity - kept by all mankind -- without any animal sacrifice in the NEW Earth.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Looks like passover and unleavened bread are the first of the annual Sabbaths in Lev 23.

Hence my statement that you quoted -- ". In Hebrews 10 we are told that the animal sacrifices and the offerings cease - which means the entire liturgy for the annual feasts of Lev 23 ended so far as it dealt with "sacrifices and offerings" once Christ was crucified "once for all" atoning sacrifice completed at the cross."

The weekly seventh day Sabbath is neither a feast nor annual.

But it is " A day of holy convocation"

No, the first feast is the weekly Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

No, the first feast is the weekly Sabbath.

It is the first "Day of holy convocation" -- what feasting did they do on the weekly Sabbath in Eden? Or in Israel?

Lev 23 does not say they were feasting on the weekly Sabbath.

The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Ssabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Because there is no animal sacrifice required nor a priest required for the weekly Sabbath - they could observe it every week - at home - without coming to Jerusalem for sacrifices and offerings and the ministry of a priest. So also Adam and Eve would need no animal sacrifice while in Eden to observe the Gen 2:1-3 weekly Sabbath as identified in Exodus 20:11.
So also "all mankind" in Isaiah 66:23 observing the Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the NEW Earth - would need no sacrifice.

 

[Bob S]

We don't keep feast days because in Hebrews 7 we are told that the earthly priesthood ends giving way to the High Priestly Ministry of Christ in heaven. In Hebrews 10 we are told that the animal sacrifices and the offerings cease - which means the entire liturgy for the annual feasts of Lev 23 ended so far as it dealt with "sacrifices and offerings" once Christ was crucified "once for all" atoning sacrifice completed at the cross.

All well and good. We are also told in 2Cor3 that the 10 commandments went away because they were temporary, so along with the feast days, new moons and the weekly Sabbath of the 10 commandments all are void for Christians
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Now we throw in a little more reveling scripture, mix it all together and we come up what is really the true gospel. And we seal what has already been revealed in 2Cor3.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Now we not only do not have 2Cor 3 telling us the 10 commandments were temporary we have Col2 telling us that what we eat doesn't matter and the feast days and new moon celebrations are shadows. The only thing left is the tithing issue which we know is not the true tithing system Israel was given. It sure doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Sabbath observant church system is built on false doctrines.