Madagascar and Australia, a question for creationists.

[xianghua]

It would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. But I am not interested in continuing this discussion unless you tell me what you point is.

the point is that ev en if we will find such a convergent case in the genetic level- evolution will not falsified. so its not a scientific claim.

 

[pat34lee]

Creationists fooling themselves into believing that evolution is the enemy are only wasting their time, creationism is their enemy and always has been, that's my point.
Evolution is used by creationists as the enemy to stop them thinking about how ridiculous their beliefs in creationism are.

Evolution is not the enemy, any more than politicians are the enemy. They are tools used by the enemy.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[xianghua]

For that reason, it is completely unreasonable to expect that the exact same genetic sequences would evolve twice independently.
.

so where is the limit that will falsified evolution then? 10 same mutations? 20? 30? we need a limit.

 

[pat34lee]

the point is that ev en if we will find such a convergent case in the genetic level- evolution will not falsified. so its not a scientific claim.

Like the name implies, the TOE is the great adapter.
Nothing can falsify it, because if it tries, the theory changes to fit the new facts.
Living dinosaurs? They'll figure something out to make it sound like it was expected.
Just like they did with soft tissue, which only lasts thousands of years, if that.

 

[Speedwell]

so where is the limit that will falsified evolution then? 10 same mutations? 20? 30? we need a limit.

No, you need a limit because you are anxious to falsify evolution--to usher in what?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

so where is the limit that will falsified evolution then? 10 same mutations? 20? 30? we need a limit.

Any sequence that would clearly breach the nested hierarchy, will do.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

the theory changes to fit the new facts.

Ow the horror......
Changing explanations/understanding to fit new discoveries??? How dare they!!!

Learning new things and making progress, is sooooo evil.

Living dinosaurs?

You mean, like birds?

Just like they did with soft tissue, which only lasts thousands of years, if that.

Citation needed.

 

[Speedwell]

Nothing can falsify it, because if it tries, the theory changes to fit the new facts.

That's correct. That's how all of science works. If new facts emerge and the current theory is falsified, the current theory is modified or a new theory is adopted. What you hope for will never come to pass--that evolution will be falsified and YECism will emerge triumphant. From a scientific standpoint YECism has already been falsified and and lies with other falsified theories, the phlogiston theory of heat, the luminiferous aether and miasma as a cause of disease, never to be revived.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's correct. That's how all of science works. If new facts emerge and the current theory is falsified, the current theory is modified or a new theory is adopted. What you hope for will never come to pass--that evolution will be falsified and YECism will emerge triumphant. From a scientific standpoint YECism has already been falsified and and lies with other falsified theories, the phlogiston theory of heat, the luminiferous aether and miasma as a cause of disease, never to be revived.

Indeed. It doesn't seem to sink through that even if evolution is debunked tomorrow, their religious creation myths are still as debunked as they have been for quite some time now.

 

[xianghua]

Any sequence that would clearly breach the nested hierarchy, will do.

but how this sequence looks like? give me an example.

 

[Armoured]

but how this sequence looks like? give me an example.

Wow.

 

[xianghua]

No, you need a limit because you are anxious to falsify evolution--to usher in what?

its not me but the theory. if there is no limit then it cant be falsified. and then its just a belief and not a scientific theory.

 

[xianghua]

Like the name implies, the TOE is the great adapter.
Nothing can falsify it, because if it tries, the theory changes to fit the new facts.
Living dinosaurs? They'll figure something out to make it sound like it was expected.
Just like they did with soft tissue, which only lasts thousands of years, if that.

yep. exactly. even we have papers that show us that a dna cant survive milions of years.

 

[Armoured]

its not me but the theory. if there is no limit then it cant be falsified. and then its just a belief and not a scientific theory.

How about you come up with ONE example of a duplicated protein mutation. Lets start with that.

 

[Armoured]

Like the name implies, the TOE is the great adapter.
Nothing can falsify it, because if it tries, the theory changes to fit the new facts.
Living dinosaurs? They'll figure something out to make it sound like it was expected.
Just like they did with soft tissue, which only lasts thousands of years, if that.

Changing in light of new information is a strength, not a weakness.

Otherwise you end up with your fingers in your ears screaming that the Earth is flat as loud as you can while the intercontinental commercial flights circle overhead.

 

[South Bound]

Ask your pastors this question, Why do animals and plants living on these island not exist anywhere else on earth?
Could it be because they were isolated from the rest of the world and evolved?

Why would I ask my pastor that? He's neither a botanist nor a zoologist

 

[Speedwell]

its not me but the theory. if there is no limit then it cant be falsified. and then its just a belief and not a scientific theory.

You mean if there is no arbitrary hard limit, determined a priori. It's a nice rhetorical ploy, but it won't work.

 

[Armoured]

Why would I ask my pastor that? He's neither a botanist nor a zoologist

I hope he doesn't make comments about zoology or botany then.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Hi stamp,

I also don't see that your question forces out the creation model. We don't know how the various plants and animals migrated or moved about or found their specific places on the earth after the creation event. There are many animals that have rather specifically outlined habitats. Lions and penguins are found in fairly limited areas of the earth. There are many anomalies concerning animals that we don't really know the 'why' or 'how' of their existence. For example: Bird migrations. There have been several studies done on 'why' birds seem to have such an uncanny ability to know when and where to migrate. One that fascinated me was a study where migratory birds were put in isolated boxes with no ability to see the sky or sun and yet at the proper time they would all orient south. Even if the enclosures were turned, within a very, very short time the birds would again orient themselves back to the southerly direction. It's as if they actually have some sort of built in compass.

Evolutionists will tell you that this is some sort of evolved knowledge or ability. Creationists merely believe that just as God gave unto Adam and Eve the ability to communicate with each other and that same ability lies in the mind of every human, so to, did He create all the other creatures with their specific abilities to do the things that they do; to live in the places where they live upon the earth. Some creatures seem to be able to adapt and live pretty much all over the earth. Some creatures have very limited habitats. The Scriptures tell the believer that God made everything and that it was perfect in its created form when all things were created by God.

One of the understandings that I have of the things of God is that we don't have to be able to explain or understand the 'how and why' of the creation event. We don't have to understand the 'how and why' things have continued as they have and become what they have become. God merely asks us to believe and trust in Him. So, for me, whatever the reason that a particular animal seems tied to a particular habitat or why the birds do what they do doesn't have to be understood. It merely is what it is and it is what it is because God made it to be that way.

I believe God. He gave unto me a fairly detailed account of the 'when' and 'how' of the creation event. Several times His word tells us that He created all things and a couple of times we are told the time in which He made all things. His word tells us that He created Adam out of the dust of the earth and then created Eve from Adam. His word then tells us, through the genealogies, when this first man and woman were created, approximately. Evolutionists and many scientific methods tell us that this simply can't be true. However, despite all the arguments against the simple truth of God's word being true, I believe God.

Many will say that's foolish of me and hard-headed and closed to the truth. You know what? Many said the very same thing about Noah. Elijah stood apart from the general population of Israel. While they were worshiping other gods and building altars to these other gods that they truly believed in their hearts existed, Elijah stood apart. He stood against all that they believed and while they danced and screamed and cut themselves to wake up their non-existent gods to throw down fire upon the earth, Elijah stood back and apart from them. When it came his turn, he tried to make it nearly impossible for his God to do what they were wanting to see done, but God did it!

Sadly, as concerns the creation and the things of God, men aren't nearly as wise and smart as they would make themselves out to be, in my understanding. I believe God. God said He created this realm in 6 days and, according to the genealogies that 6 day period would have been about 6,000 years ago and I believe that. I believe it not because I can prove it, but because God has said it.

BTW, some of this understanding of the creation event comes from understanding also the end of this realm. God created this realm in order that He could come to the day in which He will also destroy and remake this created realm. That day when He will declare, "Now the dwelling of God is with men and they will be His people and He will be their God." All of this 'age' in which we live was created for that day that is coming. When all mankind will know the truth of God.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

But God didn't directly pen the Bible, people did who claimed they knew what God was saying and perhaps got vosions

 

[CrystalDragon]

I wouldn't bother mate, God did it, we know that because the Bible says so. And after the flood God made all the animals go wherever he chose and he doesn't have to explain himself to you or anyone else. Oh and by the way, you'll get your just desserts when he returns, so you better get with the programme. There, that solves it all.

Isn't "the Bible says so" circular reasoning?