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Should Genesis be taken literally?

AnnaliseH

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Thank you for agreeing with me that evidence does not matter to such as you.

I do not know how much clearer I can make my position. Evidence that contradicts the Scriptures is WRONG. The Bible is the only measure of truth.

So in that sense, yes, 'so-called evidence' proving that whales are evolved from land animals does not matter to me. Besides, even if such growths could be called legs (which is an interpretation), they are still WHALES. They have not turned into Dinosaurs.
 
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KWCrazy

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Please tell us specifically what item of doctrine you are referring to.
What did I quote"
"Adam's predecessors would have died."
Adam had no predecessors. Sin and death came into the world through Adam's sin. That's just one more piece of foundational doctrine you have to reject to accept evolution.
 
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AnnaliseH

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I have a question for those of you who base your interpretation of Genesis on Apostolic Tradition.

You believe that your beliefs were handed down to you directly from the original Apostles, passed along from generation to generation of successor Apostles. Correct?

STILL WAITING
 
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KWCrazy

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Evolution actually happened, we have the evidence.
It did not happen. The only evidence is the conclusion you reach looking at the raw data. Others have a different conclusion. Evidence that works against you is the whole notion of benevolent mutations advancing a species. It doesn't happen. Mutations occur, but the species never advances. Over 100 years later, fruit flies are still fruit flies.
You are wrong to call it "the opinion of professors" as if professors all got together one night and concocted up this story just to get away from believing in God.
Most evolution proponents got their indoctrination from professors or teachers. You don't see many molecular biologists on here.
The evidence was left behind by God, no hand of man had anything to do with setting up the evidence.
God created the world and told us how He did it. Man has a 6,000 year history of interacting with God. Most evolution proponents deny that history.
If you cannot reconcile the Bible with evolution, then the Bible is in error.
That's where we will never agree. You put the theories of man above the word of God. The fact is, evolution is 100% opposite of the Scriptures. You cannot possibly believe one without rejecting the other.
 
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AnnaliseH

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I think it is time you gave up the pretense that this is just about evolution. You people have condemned Christian denominations who reject evolution but do not accept your YEC "literal and inerrant" Bible doctrine with the same vigor as you have condemned Christians who accept evolution. Some of you have even accused them of believing YEC Bible doctrine in secret while teaching something else these last 2000 years. What are you really defending and why?

You are quite right. It is about more than just evolution. It is about defending the truth of God's Word over theories proposed by men. It is about defending the fact that God cannot lie. It is about avoiding an error that leads to other, even more serious errors.
 
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mark kennedy

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Your post is an insult to the men and women of the Armed forces and has no relation whatever to the truth. Iraqi's looted the museum. The US military worked to get the items back.

The television company NBC televised a report about the devastating invasion of the National Museum of Antiquities of Iraq in Baghdad by looters. NBC said that according to witness reports the looters plundered exhibits, burned documents and inventory lists stored in the museum and got into the underground storage rooms where especially valuable artifacts were kept.

Marine Corps Reserve Colonel Matthew Bogdanos organized a large-scale investigation into what happened and a search for the missing property on April 16, 2003. His team was able to assess the scale of the events and offer amnesty to the people of Baghdad for returning cultural artifacts. That resulted in the return of almost two thousand exhibits to the museum. A large number of exhibits were also found during special raids. In addition, Bogdanos gave information about the destruction of the museum to UNESCO, museum curators and antiquarians in Europe and the United States, the coalition forces headquarters and the customs services of all Middle Eastern states. These actions led to the recovery of a large portion of the stolen exhibits—about five to six thousand items, including the gold of Nimrod that had disappeared in 1991.

source
The unfortunate consequence of the invasion is the police and military were removed. Anarchy reigned for almost three years because there was no one to keep order. Almost by accident the US Army, learned what needed to happen. They would clear a neighborhood rooting out the insurrectionists. When they left they would return leaving them to have to go back and do it again. Occasionally, they would leave a squad are perhaps larger element in certain areas and the insurrectionists were far less likely to return. Americans often, in those situations, will bring in materials and such and as a result the locals would point out where the insurrections were staying. The CG of the mission at the Victory Base Complex finally said he wanted these soldiers off the FOB and on the streets, the result was what became known as the surge. I was there in 2006 when this happened and instead of gate 2 getting hit every night and rockets coming in regularly there was silence. In the wake of the surge President Bush visited the Al Anbar region.

There was no YEC conspiracy, that's absurd to the point of being laughable. It was a tough lesson learned and three years of anarchy for the people of Iraq. I think George W. Bush learned the hard way why his father hadn't invaded Baghdad in the wake of the Persian Gulf War.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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HenryM

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Your verbal tricks don't determine what is and what is not science.

You brought up theory of gravity (although, speaking of gravity, law of gravity is where it's at). There are some theories in physics, but physics is built with laws, not theories. There are massive amount of laws of physics that are used everyday, for calculation in science or applied science, in order to produce a product or more complex knowledge about our physical world. I am merely interested what is universally accepted scientific law (not theory), expressed in a formula, that's discovered within macro evolution, and that's now used in science? I don't propose it doesn't exist. I would just like to know what you would offer as best example.
 
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KWCrazy

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I think it is time you gave up the pretense that this is just about evolution.
It's not. It's about people who call themselves Christians standing with the forces of evil in attacking the Bible as a book of myths from bronze aged goat herders.
You people have condemned Christian denominations who reject evolution
Who is "you people?"
but do not accept your YEC "literal and inerrant" Bible doctrine
Jesus and Paul said the Bible was the word of God. I don't consider either of them untruthful.
with the same vigor as you have condemned Christians who accept evolution.
Christians who accept evolution are simply wrong. Christians who PROFESS evolution are teaching false doctrine.
Some of you have even accused them of believing YEC Bible doctrine in secret while teaching something else these last 2000 years.
The church until recently taught that the Bible was true. Only recently did some replace foundational doctrine with lies of molecules to man.
What are you really defending and why?
The Bible, because you're attacking it.
 
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-57

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Moses clearly teaches that a day is equal to 1,000 years. The Historical evidence agrees with this. 12,900 years ago the earth plunged into a short ice age that wiped out 90% of the species. Only a remnant survived to repopulate the earth.

I do not have any problem with a literal 24 hour day. Clearly the world that we are talking about is not the whole geosphere. Adams world in the Tigris Euphrates river valley was a biodiverse ecosystem. What started in Eden did spread to the rest of the world. Farming began in this area that some people call the fertile crescent.

This is what shadow and types are all about. This shows the pattern that God follows and He is consistent in what He does. There is a reason why the story of Adam and Eve has been so popular for the last 6,000 years.

The Ice Age occurred after the flood.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The holiness of the Sabbath affirms that God intended for six days to mean six days.
Six days is a shadow and a type. God could have created the Garden if Eden in 6 literal days. I believe all the creation theories are true from their own perspective.
 
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Speedwell

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I have a question for those of you who base your interpretation of Genesis on Apostolic Tradition.

You believe that your beliefs were handed down to you directly from the original Apostles, passed along from generation to generation of successor Apostles. Correct?

STILL WAITING
As I said before, I don't think anyone here does that. You YECs don't, because you don't belief in Apostolic tradition. Those of us who do believe in Apostolic Tradition don't think it transmits a particular interpretation of Genesis.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Earlier pre humans would have died without being immortal, wouldn't they?
Adam and Eve lived to be around 1,000 years. I have researched the cause of death for pre Adam and Eve people and everyone I found died from an accident or they were killed with an arrow or some sort of a hunting weapon. For example the death of Cheddar Man remains a mystery, but a hole in his skull suggests violence. Kennewick man looks to have died from a stone projectile lodged in the ilium. The projectile was made from a siliceous gray stone that was found to have igneous (intrusive or volcanic) origins.

Main causes of death for pre civilized humans were accidents, food shortage, predators or infections. Non-communicable diseases (cancer, obesity, diabetes,hypertension) were rare to nonexistent. Ancient animals like the crocodile and the turtle live very long lives. Turtles can live up to 300 years or more. The bristlecone pine tree can last up to 5,000 years. There are bushes that do not die, their cells keep dividing and the bush keeps growing. Ancient fern plants tend to live for a very long time. Just give them a bit of water every now and then and they are fine.
 
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Speedwell

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It's not. It's about people who call themselves Christians standing with the forces of evil in attacking the Bible as a book of myths from bronze aged goat herders.
And those "forces of evil" include not only evolutionists, atheists, and non-Christians, but Christians who reject evolution but also reject your Bible doctrine. Got it.
Who is "you people?"
YECs.


Jesus and Paul said the Bible was the word of God. I don't consider either of them untruthful.
That is what most Christians teach, even those who reject your YEC Bible doctrine.


Christians who accept evolution are simply wrong. Christians who PROFESS evolution are teaching false doctrine.
And Christians who reject evolution and also reject your Bible doctrine are wrong and teaching false doctrine as well. Got it.

The church until recently taught that the Bible was true. Only recently did some replace foundational doctrine with lies of molecules to man.
By foundational doctrine I presume you mean the literal inerrancy of of scripture. Some churches never taught such a thing, so there was nothing to "replace" and they rejected evolution anyway.
 
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expos4ever

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What did I quote"
"Adam's predecessors would have died."
Adam had no predecessors. Sin and death came into the world through Adam's sin. That's just one more piece of foundational doctrine you have to reject to accept evolution.
How do you know that Adam had no predecessors? Before you answer, please be sure you understand the Jewish approach to story-telling.
 
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Speedwell

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There was no YEC conspiracy, that's absurd to the point of being laughable. It was a tough lesson learned and three years of anarchy for the people of Iraq. I think George W. Bush learned the hard way why his father hadn't invaded Baghdad in the wake of the Persian Gulf War.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Since you were there--my respects to you BTW--I will take your word for it. But I can't believe there was no rejoicing among the Fundamentalist missionaries sent to "convert" indigenous Christians when they heard of it.
 
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AnnaliseH

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As I said before, I don't think anyone here does that. You YECs don't, because you don't belief in Apostolic tradition. Those of us who do believe in Apostolic Tradition don't think it transmits a particular interpretation of Genesis.

So, if you don't get your interpretation of Genesis from the Bible, if you don't get it from your faith in Apostolic Tradition, what exactly DO you found it on????
 
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expos4ever

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Some relevant opinions from Wikipedia

Misunderstanding the genre of the Genesis creation narrative, meaning the intention of the author/s and the culture within which they wrote, can result in a misreading.[7] Reformed evangelical scholar Bruce Waltke cautions against one such misreading, the approach which reads it as history rather than theology and so leads to Creationism and the denial of evolution.[8] As noted scholar of Jewish studies, Jon D. Levenson, puts it: "How much history lies behind the story of Genesis? Because the action of the primeval story is not represented as taking place on the plane of ordinary human history and has so many affinities with ancient mythology, it is very far-fetched to speak of its narratives as historical at all."
 
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Speedwell

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So, if you don't get your interpretation of Genesis from the Bible, if you don't get it from your faith in Apostolic Tradition, what exactly DO you found it on????
Biblical scholarship. And, of course, Genesis is not as important to us as it is to you. One thing Apostolic Tradition does tell us is that we are fallen, sinners in need of redemption in Christ, so determining the "how" of it looms less large. In fact, the YEC preoccupation with Genesis always struck me as rather odd, made me wonder if you are not, perhaps, all Dispensationalists.
 
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expos4ever

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It's not. It's about people who call themselves Christians standing with the forces of evil in attacking the Bible as a book of myths from bronze aged goat herders.
Ladies and gents: witness the rhetorical art of the creationist. When presented with things that annoy them - such as the demonstrable fact that the Jews have a long-established tradition of using literary device to make theological points - how does the creationist respond?

By making a reasoned counterargument denying this literary tradition? Or, alternatively, making a clear case as to why the creation account does not fall in the category of literary device?

Nooooooooooooo.

Instead, we get the tired "you are a minion of Satan" thought-stopping ploy.
 
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