Should Genesis be taken literally?

[KWCrazy]

The ancient Hebrews did leave clues in their scriptures that the story was not to be taken literally. The usual clue was gross exaggeration. In Genesis the talking serpent is just such a clue as are a tree that can confer moral wisdom and another tree that can confer eternal life. In another story it is living tree days in the belly of a great fish or a tree that grows overnight. There are a number more scattered about in the form of talking donkeys and the like.

It must be nice to pick and choose which miracles to believe and which to reject. Are there any you actually accept? What's the difference?

 

[expos4ever]

Until then in my personal opinion...so don't go crying to a moderator...heretical. Post 3 presents some verses that the mythical genesis sect need to distort.

I have NEVER reported anything to a moderator.

And I am fully aware how the "heresy" accusation is often used here: when things are not working out to one's satisfaction in a debate, one can always escape a difficult position by crying "heresy!".

Very convenient, I must say.

 

[KWCrazy]

Ahhhhhh, I go where the science takes me. A young earth.

I go where my Savior leads me. It has a far better retirement plan.

 

[SeventyOne]

Close. It was Genesis 3: 8-9. When the cool evening breezes were blowing, the man and his wife heard the lord God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the lord God among the trees. Then the lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
No man has ever seen the face of God. Exodus 33:20 "But," he said, "You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. It was Jesus who walked and spoke with Adam and Eve. The could not have seen the face of the Father and lived; especially after the fall. Jesus had no reason to doubt Genesis because He was there from the beginning. Jesus was and is Lord.

Ok. I stand corrected. Thanks

 

[Big Drew]

I consider those that remove Gemnesis from the literal and distort it into mythical meanings are doing the bible serious harm.
Greg J in post 3 presents only a handful of verses that need to be re-written when Genesis is changed from literal historic to myth.

Typically I find christians have been fooled by the religion of evolutionism....religion because it attempts to explains mans fall or sin nature...The explanation ALWAYS incures heretical theological concepts.

In your opinion.

As I said previously, I don't want to debate creation v evolution...it's been done here and in other venues ad nauseam, and it's a fruitless endeavor. I respect your position, I just don't agree with it. If you must know, though, it's my belief that God did create the heavens, the earth, and all living things...how He did it, I don't know. But, I do believe science shows us that part of the answer lies in evolution. None of us will deny God his sovereignty...His ways are not ours, and so much about Him and how He works we will never understand.

When I look out my kitchen window, each morning, as I'm sitting at my kitchen table, reading the Bible, I have a beautiful view of the mountains in the distance. When sitting at that same table each morning, a beautiful furry four legged creature that I have nicknamed, Counterproductive Kitty, jumps between me and the Bible for my attention. In the evening I spend time with my beautiful wife and equally beautiful children...I can go on...but the point is that I can't look at any of these people or things and think that it happened by chance...that there was no Divine inspiration...obviously God created the universe. On this, you and I agree...we disagree on how He did it. I believe that when the words of Genesis were written, thousands of years ago, it was the best way to explain creation at the time...and even today, it paints a beautiful picture...but I believe today, because of science, we have a deeper understanding of how He did it. You will never hear me say He did not do this, that it was left up to chance...I know in my spirit that is false.

 

[DingDing]

Genesis is the history of Israel's roots...most believe Moses to be the author of the book, ...

Wrong! God dictated it to Moses, because only God saw the whole thing.

When stories are told from one generation to the next things change. Some things may be added, others taken away...things become embellished...that's just how it is. It doesn't mean that anyone is lying, necessarily, ...

So God screwed it up?

A good, more modern example of this would be the story of Jesse James...

So did God also screw up any stories about Jesse James? (A distant great, great, great uncle of mine, I might add.)

So, is it possible that this is what happened with Genesis? ...

Only if you think God screwed it up. And if you do, may I suggest that you find a different god - one who didn't screw up the Jesse James story.

 

[JacksBratt]

Mods, if this isn't in the right section please move, I wasn't sure where the best place for this discussion would be, as this has more to do with the entire book and not only creation.

Genesis is the history of Israel's roots...most believe Moses to be the author of the book, and if we go by the chronology from Genesis to Exodus, he wouldn't have been born until a couple thousand years after the account of Adam. Prior to this, these stories would have been handed down through oral tradition.

When stories are told from one generation to the next things change. Some things may be added, others taken away...things become embellished...that's just how it is. It doesn't mean that anyone is lying, necessarily, just that what we hear as a child and what we teach to our children about a subject may change slightly based on our recollection. And then there are those that like to add their own spin to make things more interesting, and it sticks...

A good, more modern example of this would be the story of Jesse James...many accounts made him out to be a Robin Hood of his day, only stealing from the rich and helping the poor...after the Civil War there was a lot of distrust in this country, and people wanted a hero they found him in this notorious outlaw...the truth of the matter was he was your typical run of the mill thief...albeit a very good one...but stories were made up about him in newspapers, books and songs...and now, 140 years later, there are those that think he was, as the "The Ballad of Jesse James" said, "a friend to the poor that would never have a brother suffer pain." In this instance, of course, we can look back at actual accounts from the day and easily put these claims to rest.

So, is it possible that this is what happened with Genesis? That after years of oral tradition some of the "facts" changed? I'm not saying this as a dig at creationism, or anything like that. Nor am I saying that there is no truth to be found in Genesis...I believe it paints a beautiful picture of creation, of God's desire to have a relationship with His people, of man's biggest obstacle to overcome being his sinful nature, and how the foundation was being laid for the Christ.

I have mentioned this before................Adam was still alive when Methuselah was alive. Noah's son's would have talked to Methuselah. Noah's son, Shem , was alive when Jacob was alive. Do you not think that they talked about such things?

The whole idea that the story of the creation was lost due to the "broken telephone" is a not a working model.

Adam told Methuselah who told Shem who told Jacob..... That is by no means a long enough phone line for the type of errors many would like to believe.

Especially when you are talking about something as phenomenal as the creation of Mankind, the universe and all the animals... The story of the flood would have been told to Jacob first hand.

Unless, of course you think that people couldn't keep an epic event like this straight for three passes of the facts.

I for one believe 100% that Jacob knew exactly what happened. He was also an educated man and could have easily passed on the exact history or even wrote it down.

I believe that Genesis is exactly what happened and it takes more faith in twisted scripture to believe otherwise.

Chart of Old Testament Patriarch Lifespans

 

[HenryM]

Because we go where the evidence and reason leads us.

Are you sure you go by the evidence, or by deceit? Evolution is not a science.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Mods, if this isn't in the right section please move, I wasn't sure where the best place for this discussion would be, as this has more to do with the entire book and not only creation.

Genesis is the history of Israel's roots...most believe Moses to be the author of the book, and if we go by the chronology from Genesis to Exodus, he wouldn't have been born until a couple thousand years after the account of Adam. Prior to this, these stories would have been handed down through oral tradition.

When stories are told from one generation to the next things change. Some things may be added, others taken away...things become embellished...that's just how it is. It doesn't mean that anyone is lying, necessarily, just that what we hear as a child and what we teach to our children about a subject may change slightly based on our recollection. And then there are those that like to add their own spin to make things more interesting, and it sticks...

A good, more modern example of this would be the story of Jesse James...many accounts made him out to be a Robin Hood of his day, only stealing from the rich and helping the poor...after the Civil War there was a lot of distrust in this country, and people wanted a hero they found him in this notorious outlaw...the truth of the matter was he was your typical run of the mill thief...albeit a very good one...but stories were made up about him in newspapers, books and songs...and now, 140 years later, there are those that think he was, as the "The Ballad of Jesse James" said, "a friend to the poor that would never have a brother suffer pain." In this instance, of course, we can look back at actual accounts from the day and easily put these claims to rest.

So, is it possible that this is what happened with Genesis? That after years of oral tradition some of the "facts" changed? I'm not saying this as a dig at creationism, or anything like that. Nor am I saying that there is no truth to be found in Genesis...I believe it paints a beautiful picture of creation, of God's desire to have a relationship with His people, of man's biggest obstacle to overcome being his sinful nature, and how the foundation was being laid for the Christ.

I believe Moses or whoever, was inspired to write the book of Genesis. I believe it is to be taken literally. I know there are many who believe this just isn't rational or intelligent. But, I believe intelligence begins with faith in God and faith that He is all powerful. the interpretation of Scripture then falls fast into place.

 

[Waggles]

So, is it possible that this is what happened with Genesis? That after years of oral tradition some of the "facts" changed?

All original scripture is true and sealed by God - the author of his word to us for our benefit.
Every word, every verse, every chapter, every book [all 66 of them] is sealed by Bible Numerics - the mathematical number patterns pertinent to the Holy Scriptures that is not reproduced by any other work claiming to be "God-given."

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Timothy 3:16-17

 

[Zoii]

I know I'm out of step with most here, but I think the point of genesis is to lay a platform for a paradigm of how to live your life and respect God. I don't accept any literal translation of it as it has too many issues that are contrary to solid scientific evidence

 

[Waggles]

3. And a talking snake is about as obvious a clue as one could ask for.

Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman,
"Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

The serpent was merely a "puppet." An instrument of means, by which a very powerful fallen angelic being spoke through
the biology of the serpent. Remember that Satan and the angels have great supernatural power and can perform all
manner of lying wonders and false miracles.

The serpent of Genesis was not the only animal to speak out to humans...
27 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled,
and he smote the ass with a staff.
28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee,
that thou has smitten me these three times?
29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand,
for now would I kill thee.
30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day?
was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.
31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way,
and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
Numbers 22:27-31

 

[throughfiierytrial]

All original scripture is true and sealed by God - the author of his word to us for our benefit.
Every word, every verse, every chapter, every book [all 66 of them] is sealed by Bible Numerics - the mathematical number patterns pertinent to the Holy Scriptures that is not reproduced by any other work claiming to be "God-given."

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Timothy 3:16-17

Excellent passage citation here!

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I know I'm out of step with most here, but I think the point of genesis is to lay a platform for a paradigm of how to live your life and respect God. I don't accept any literal translation of it as it has too many issues that are contrary to solid scientific evidence

But literal Genesis is the basis for learning of our acquiring the sinful nature and the need and promise of a Savior...Genesis 3:15. Romans is a N.T. book which cites the original sin, the promise and the need and act of Jesus reversing the sin...Romans 5...you can't reject literal Genesis w/o rejecting the main doctrine of the N.T.

 

[Big Drew]

Wrong! God dictated it to Moses, because only God saw the whole thing.



So God screwed it up?



So did God also screw up any stories about Jesse James? (A distant great, great, great uncle of mine, I might add.)



Only if you think God screwed it up. And if you do, may I suggest that you find a different god - one who didn't screw up the Jesse James story.

Wow...you're angry...

And, we're cousins!

 

[expos4ever]

Evolution is not a science.

Oh please. To say that evolution is not science is dishonest at worst, ignorant at least.

 

[CodyFaith]

.

 

[CodyFaith]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Emphasis on the word "all".

 

[KWCrazy]

I don't accept any literal translation of it as it has too many issues that are contrary to solid scientific evidence

So you don't believe that God created man.
You don't believe in the fall of man.
You don't believe Christ walked on water.
You don't believe Christ healed the sick.
You don't believe Christ raised the dead.
You don't believe Christ died and rose again on the third day.
All of these things are contradicted by solid scientific evidence.
If you believe that natural law, not Gods law, governs the universe, then you must not believe anything in the Scriptures.
You must not believe in any of the 333 miracles listed in the Bible because all of them run contrary to solid scientific evidence.
That's sad, because your science book can't get you to Heaven, and you're rejecting the one book that can.

 

[KWCrazy]

Oh please. To say that evolution is not science is dishonest at worst, ignorant at least.

Evolution is not science. Claiming that it is would be dishonest at worst, ignorant at least. Evolution is a theory of common descent. It is not a requirement for all scientific research.