historicist vs futurist

[victorinus]

historicist vs futurist

I firmly believe that
the twain shall never meet
-but-
we do need a place where one can trash the other
-or-
at least present their arguments for or against
-so-
threads need not be trashed for either reason
-
I will start this off with the following
-if-
you have the wrong interpretation of prophecy -
you may never see it in the future
-
history is the only way to confirm prophecy
-and-
your interpretation of it

 

[victorinus]

the jews are all futurists
they are still looking for the first coming
you would think after all these years
some would look back and say
sure missed that one

 

[victorinus]

we are not prophets -
we cannot predict the future -
we can watch history -
we have been asked to watch -
we can look for history that might match prophecy -
our interpretation of prophecy is a guess -
history that seems to fit prophecy can actually help us improve our understanding of it

 

[Yahchristian]

Here are two charts that show the Historicist View and the Futurist View...

 

[victorinus]

Here are two charts that show the Historicist View and the Futurist View...

who do you think is the little horn?

 

[Yahchristian]

who do you think is the little horn?

The temporal and spiritual ruler who claims he "has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered". (Catechism of the Catholic Church - Christ's Faithful - Hierarchy, Laity, Consecrated Life)

 

[victorinus]

The temporal and spiritual ruler who claims he "has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered".

so you think the church/rome is the second beast?

 

[Yahchristian]

so you think the church/rome is the second beast?

Are you asking about the second beast in Daniel 7 or Revelation 13, or something else?

 

[victorinus]

Are you asking about the second beast in Daniel 7 or Revelation 13, or something else?

rev 13

 

[victorinus]

so how do you start your research on the apocalypse?
-
I start with a literal interpretation and go to history which in my mind must include daniel

 

[HenryM]

so how do you start your research on the apocalypse?
-
I start with a literal interpretation and go to history which in my mind must include daniel

How can you know if what you research as history is really historic record of event that took place, or a fabrication? We are living in times of deception, so many or most history books could be full of false info.

 

[victorinus]

How can you know if what you research as history is really historic record of event that took place, or a fabrication?

good question -
I am aware of the many attempts to rewrite history -
fortunately we have many different sources for the same events and I read as many of them that I can find -
there are some events where all historians must rely on one or two original sources -
such is life

 

[HenryM]

good question -
I am aware of the many attempts to rewrite history -
fortunately we have many different sources for the same events and I read as many of them that I can find -
there are some events where all historians must rely on one or two original sources -
such is life

This isn't directly connected to the thread, but maybe you could answer me one question I had some time ago.

I was thinking about the number of deaths in some historic battle, where you read, for example, that 50.000 people died on this or that battle. And I am talking way down in history.

So I thought - what happened to the bodies? If, for example, 50 thousand people were slaughtered by sword or pierced by arrow, one by one, you have a field of 50 thousand people that bled to death. If they are left to rot, desease can spread. If they are burried, it would take huge undertaking to dig holes and bury them. Even if you would dig big holes, it would be a job. Even more so, you would have people going around thousands upon thousands bloodied and chopped up corpses, after the battle when adrenaline's gone, and that would probably do some special mental damage, at least in short term, and probably in long term too, so people would not be inclined to do it.

Also, if tens of thousands people are burried (or even left to rot), at least some of them could be dug up for some archeological or scientific purposes. Do those big digs exist today?

That's my question. What happens with the bodies after huge battle?

 

[victorinus]

What happens with the bodies after huge battle?

the important thing is that a battle was fought and many people died
-
how many and what happened to the bodies was never a concern of mine
-
war is hell

 

[dougangel]

historicist vs futurist

I firmly believe that
the twain shall never meet
-but-
we do need a place where one can trash the other
-or-
at least present their arguments for or against
-so-
threads need not be trashed for either reason
-
I will start this off with the following
-if-
you have the wrong interpretation of prophecy -
you may never see it in the future
-
history is the only way to confirm prophecy
-and-
your interpretation of it

I think there can be both. It depends on the prophecy and when it was written. Also history repeats it's self.

 

[victorinus]

I think there can be both. It depends on the prophecy and when it was written.

it was written 2000 years ago and the futurists are still waiting for fulfillment of any kind

 

[dougangel]

it was written 2000 years ago and the futurists are still waiting for fulfillment of any kind

I don't think you understand me. Daniel was written before the cross. Revelation was written after the cross. This has a major bearing on the writings.
The 2nd coming is in the future that hasn't happened. Hopefully all Christians are futurist about that.
There are some historical prophecies and some prophecies that have to be fulfilled.

 

[victorinus]

The 2nd coming is in the future that hasn't happened.

can you name one more?

 

[dougangel]

can you name one more?

Well Rev 20, 21, 22.

In yahchristians diagrams.Post 4# I actually think the present diagram is much more accurate.
But I'm a futurist in that I don't think the end time anti christ has revealed himself.

 

[HenryM]

the important thing is that a battle was fought and many people died... how many and what happened to the bodies was never a concern of mine... war is hell

Yes, I agree. The thing is, if premise is murky, which this one about bodies after battle maybe is, maybe the event didn't happen at all as depicted in some text.