FREEDOM FROM SABBATH-KEEPING

[bugkiller]

NO ONE will dispute with you if I do not dispute with you, and I am no longer going to allow you that pleasure or privilege or honour.

Thanks again.

Heads I won, tails you lost.

bugkiller

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

In Mark 15:24-37 Matthew 27:35-50 Luke 23:33-46 John 19:18-30.

how is the crucifixion an abrogation of the 4th commandment? why are none of the other 9 commandments also abrogated?

 

[bugkiller]

how is the crucifixion an abrogation of the 4th commandment? why are none of the other 9 commandments also abrogated?

They are Jn 15:10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Abraham was thoroughly <<held accountable for committing adultery>> in his own life and lifetime, and until today. And the bitter fruits of Abraham's disobedience to the Laws of God will be harvested and eaten until the Last Day.

It is so true, <<No law, no sin.>> Which proves forever the immortality and immutability of the Law of God. Adam sinned from the beginning because death from the beginning had dominion over him as over everyone of his seed.

No law - no violation. Sin was before the law and the reason it (the law) came until the Seed (the Redeemer) came.

bugkiller

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

They are Jn 15:10.

bugkiller

How?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I asked you to explain a Thursday crucifixion from the text given in Luke.

You asked why I omitted some lines from the text.
Simply because people will avoid reading large sections of scripture.

I will gladly insert the missing verses, which tell us the exact time that Jesus was crucified and buried.

Luke 23
50 And a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man 51 (he had not consented to their plan and action), a man from Arimathea, a city of the Jews, who was waiting for the kingdom of God; 52 this man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain. 54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

There you are Gerhard, the omitted text. These verses above, prove that Jesus was crucified and buried on the preparation day for the Sabbath.

Mr Clute David,
I am very sorry, please help me find the word, <<crucified>> and the words, <<crucified and>>, in these verses, quoting you quoting
Luke 23
50 And a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man 51 (he had not consented to their plan and action), a man from Arimathea, a city of the Jews, who was waiting for the kingdom of God; 52 this man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain. 54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

Thanks in advance

 

[bugkiller]

How?

Evidently you have not read the verse. What commandments did Jesus keep? Jesus made no claim to keep His commandments. Jesus made a claim to keep His Father's commandments. We are certain (know) Jesus kept the 10 Cs.

bugkiller

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

What commandments did Jesus keep?

all of them, including the 4th commandment

 

[bugkiller]

all of them, including the 4th commandment

Yeppers!!!!!

bugkiller

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There you are Gerhard, the omitted text. These verses above, prove that Jesus was crucified and buried on the preparation day for the Sabbath.

Then you complained again.
Once again I will gladly insert the omitted text.
The text is painting a different picture from the one your trying to paint, Gerhard.

Here is the omitted text.

Luke 23
48 And all the crowds who came together for this spectacle, when they observed what had happened, began to return, beating their breasts. 49 And all His acquaintances and the women who accompanied Him from Galilee were standing at a distance, seeing these things.

The crowds left the scene, but the friends of Jesus and the women stayed and were observing. The text is contradicting what you said Gerhard. The crowds left but the women did not leave, read the following verse.

55 Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid.

I told you the women never left, the women stayed and saw Joseph bury Jesus.

You said that nobody was near the cross UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME. The text does not support your claim. Where does the text state that evening had come?

The text distinctly states that Jesus was buried the day before the Sabbath.

54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

Gerhard, using the text in Luke's Gospel, you need to support your claim. Show me that the disciples of Jesus left the cross when Jesus died. Also show me where Luke states, 'UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME. You said I was presenting a false account, now you demonstrate your view from Luke!

Re:

<<Where does the text state that evening had come?>>

Exactly; that’s the question you must answer. It was not I who said, <<The text distinctly states that Jesus was buried the day before the Sabbath.>> Indeed, Joseph had finished to bury Jesus and had the stone rolled into lock exactly “mid-afternoon before the Sabbath that day the preparation.” [ehn de heh hehmera Pro-Sabbaton Paraskeuehs kai Sabbaton epephohsken]. 3 P.m. finished and buried, OK?

OK?

So, <<Where does the text state that evening had come?>>

Where the text FOUR VERSE BACK, states,

“Then BEHOLD A MAN NAMED JOSEPH … this man approaching Pilate asked the body of Jesus.”

WHEN DOES THE TEXT SAY WAS THAT?

“When already evening was come WHEN CAME JOSEPH and went in to Pilate and asked the body of Jesus.” Mark 15:42

So, where else does the Text state that evening had come?

“WHEN EVENING HAD COME AND THERE CAME JOSEPH and he went to Pilate and asked the body of Jesus.” Matthew 27:57.

So, where else does the Text state that evening had come?

“WHEN IT WAS THE PREPARATION and the Jews asked Pilate to have the bodies removed from the crosses and taken away … that JOSEPH AFTER THESE besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus.” John 19:31,38.


FOUR Gospel Witnesses unanimously unequivocally stating <<that evening had come>> “when BEHOLD A MAN NAMED JOSEPH approaching Pilate asked the body of Jesus” in Luke 23:50. That is where; not after in verse 54.

 

[bugkiller]

Re:

<<Where does the text state that evening had come?>>

Exactly; that’s the question you must answer. It was not I who said, <<The text distinctly states that Jesus was buried the day before the Sabbath.>> Indeed, Joseph had finished to bury Jesus and had the stone rolled into lock exactly “mid-afternoon before the Sabbath that day the preparation.” [ehn de heh hehmera Pro-Sabbaton Paraskeuehs kai Sabbaton epephohsken]. 3 P.m. finished and buried, OK?

OK?

So, <<Where does the text state that evening had come?>>

Where the text FOUR VERSE BACK, states,

“Then BEHOLD A MAN NAMED JOSEPH … this man approaching Pilate asked the body of Jesus.”

WHEN DOES THE TEXT SAY WAS THAT?

“When already evening was come WHEN CAME JOSEPH and went in to Pilate and asked the body of Jesus.” Mark 15:42

So, where else does the Text state that evening had come?

“WHEN EVENING HAD COME AND THERE CAME JOSEPH and he went to Pilate and asked the body of Jesus.” Matthew 27:57.

According to the Greek text the word in dispute could also be translated as later instead of evening.

So, where else does the Text state that evening had come?

“WHEN IT WAS THE PREPARATION and the Jews asked Pilate to have the bodies removed from the crosses and taken away … that JOSEPH AFTER THESE besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus.” John 19:31,38.

This is mid afternoon, not evening according to your verses.

FOUR Gospel Witnesses unanimously unequivocally stating <<that evening had come>> “when BEHOLD A MAN NAMED JOSEPH approaching Pilate asked the body of Jesus” in Luke 23:50. That is where; not after in verse 54.

It is the day before the Sabbath.

You have not established you argument as fact even with your passages.

bugkiller

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Show me that the disciples of Jesus left the cross when Jesus died. Also show me where Luke states, 'UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME. You said I was presenting a false account, now you demonstrate your view from Luke!

Re:

<<You said I was presenting a false account, now you demonstrate your view from Luke!>>

Answer:

Yes, you have, like right here,

<<show me where Luke states, 'UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME.>>

I have not alleged, falsely like you do right here, that <<Luke states, 'UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME>>. Above I have shown from all four Gospels that Luke states, that “evening HAD ALREADY COME”! Not <<UNTIL evening>>! <<Until evening>> is what you are falsely alleging, that Luke states.


Re:

<<Show me that the disciples of Jesus left the cross when Jesus died.>>

No sir; you are too clever. I do not allege – falsely like you do here – that the disciples were at the cross, then left. It’s you who assume – falsely – that the disciples were at the cross, then did not leave, but stayed. So it’s no problem for me; it’s your own problem created by yourself with falsely assuming falsehood for truth. THERE WERE NO DISCIPLES PRESENT AT THE BURIAL undertaken by Joseph and assisted in by Nicodemus.

You said I was presenting a false account, now you demonstrate your view from Luke, that the disciples attended and did not leave!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

According to the Greek text the word in dispute could also be translated as later instead of evening.

Kindly illustrate?

 

[bugkiller]

Kindly illustrate?

Opsias - short definition - late

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Re:

<<You said I was presenting a false account, now you demonstrate your view from Luke!>>

Answer:

Yes, you have, like right here,

<<show me where Luke states, 'UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME.>>

I have not alleged, falsely like you do right here, that <<Luke states, 'UNTIL EVENING HAD ALREADY COME>>. Above I have shown from all four Gospels that Luke states, that “evening HAD ALREADY COME”! Not <<UNTIL evening>>! <<Until evening>> is what you are falsely alleging, that Luke states.


Re:

<<Show me that the disciples of Jesus left the cross when Jesus died.>>

No sir; you are too clever. I do not allege – falsely like you do here – that the disciples were at the cross, then left. It’s you who assume – falsely – that the disciples were at the cross, then did not leave, but stayed. So it’s no problem for me; it’s your own problem created by yourself with falsely assuming falsehood for truth. THERE WERE NO DISCIPLES PRESENT AT THE BURIAL undertaken by Joseph and assisted in by Nicodemus.

You said I was presenting a false account, now you demonstrate your view from Luke, that the disciples attended and did not leave!

You are limiting "disciple to 11 people. The text dose not personal and or close disciples. A disciple is a follower as both Joseph and Nicodemus were.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

so where in scripture has the 4th commandment been abrogated?

It all started in Matt 5 where Jesus told the Jews that not one jot nor one tittle would pass from the law until all was fulfilled. All was fulfilled at the Cross, Jesus came and finished all He came to do. He kept the law that Israel could not begin to keep. Then we read the letter to the Galatians. Chapter 3 tell us the law was until Jesus which verifies the meaning of Matt 5:18. 2Cor 3:7-11 verifies that the 10 commandments which contained the 4th commandment were temporary and now we are under the power of the Holy Spirit. For further verification see below in green. Need anymore proof?

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

Hello W.

Using the text, to which people was the fourth commandment given to?

Do the church tell us that Christians is "spiritual" Israel too?
"Spiritual Jew"? (Romans 2:29)

What about the 1st to 3rd commandment and 5th to 10th commandment?

Is it for Christian Gentiles AKA "Spiritual Israel/Jews"?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

It all started in Matt 5 where Jesus told the Jews that not one jot nor one tittle would pass from the law until all was fulfilled. All was fulfilled at the Cross, Jesus came and finished all He came to do. He kept the law that Israel could not begin to keep. Then we read the letter to the Galatians. Chapter 3 tell us the law was until Jesus which verifies the meaning of Matt 5:18. 2Cor 3:7-11 verifies that the 10 commandments which contained the 4th commandment were temporary and now we are under the power of the Holy Spirit. For further verification see below in green. Need anymore proof?

am I now free to murder and commit adultery?

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

am I now free to murder and commit adultery?

That's a question which is hard to answer to an antinomian.

BTW, Bob S is an antinomian, just like Marcion.

Even in "under the power of Holy Spirit", many celibate Catholic priests are still secret child molesters.

 

[Bob S]

am I now free to murder and commit adultery?

If you had an inkling what the New Covenant is about you wouldn't have written what you just did.