What is the Big Secret About the Emmaus Walk? Need Advice!

[sarthaz]

Hi,

I found this forum a while back when researching my upcoming Walk to Emmaus (WTE), and I've been meaning to return to share my story. Please forgive me bumping this thread again , but if someone like me stumbles upon it one day in the future, I hope my post will be helpful to them.

First, some background on me. I'm a natural skeptic. I believe in God, mostly because I have simply chosen to do so, but I'm not big on ritual or evangelism or any of that. At times, I don't really know if Jesus was the son of God or just a really cool dude with a great message. I know by posting that, some of you will discount my words (especially the people on that RR board linked above), but I have to be honest for this post to have value. I attend church semi-regularly, mostly because it's important to my wife and also because I think it's good for my children to have that foundation. I'm just a regular guy.

My exposure to WTE is somewhat unique. From what I now know, most pilgrims have been aware of the walk for years and take some serious soul searching before going. For me, it casually came up in conversation with a friend who doesn't even go to our church. We asked someone at church, they said "It's really cool. You should go." So we did.

As the time got closer, our sponsors told us about not having a watch or phone, and I started to get nervous. For one, I'm never out of contact with my wife and kids for that long. Even when I travel, we still talk on the phone. Also, I didn't love being unavailable from work in case of an emergency. Mostly, though, I didn't like the idea of being put in a position where I felt uncomfortable. So, like a fool, I took to the Internet -- the worst place to go for an honest appraisal of anything -- and found threads like this with people proclaiming the dangers of WTE, and I got worked up about it. I devised an elaborate plan to trick my sponsor into thinking I left my phone at home and then sneak it onto my walk. My wife said I was being silly, but I didn't want to take any chances. I carefully observed the route we took to get there and planned my escape in case I needed to leave early. I feared I was walking into a cult, and I was ready to get outta Dodge if needed.

I am that guy. I don't like not being in control.

When I got to the location of my walk, there was an announcement that went something like this: "we request that you put your phones and watches away so that you can best enjoy this experience." Wait just a minute, I thought -- that's it! No one ever asked me about my phone, not my sponsor, not the volunteers. No one searched my bag or said another thing about it the whole time. I was worked up over nothing.

Now, here's where I need to step away from my story to make an intellectual observation. I was in a fraternity in college. Our initiation ceremony was beautiful and special. As an upperclassman, I traveled to other chapters of my fraternity and was floored by how beautifully differently other chapters were following the same script and how horribly misguided some were, missing the whole point of the experience. Now, WTE is NOT, and I cannot express this enough, NOT like a fraternity initiation -- but it is a national script being presented and interpreted by hundreds of local chapters -- and as a result, everyone does it differently, colored by the experiences and passions of those involved. And some of them, going by posts I've read on the Internet ... are doing it wrong. I cannot speak to what other chapters do, but based on my experience, if they're doing anything to make people uncomfortable, then they are doing it wrong.

My sponsor was upfront and honest with me, and I was prepared. He told me, "I'll tell you every single thing that happens there if you want, but I hope you'll trust me to just go without expectation." I did. The cool thing is, he could have told me everything, and it wouldn't have changed much, but I'm glad he didn't. And I'm glad I was prepared to not have my cell phone, so there was no shock when they asked us to put them away. Remember, how I elaborately sneaked mine into the walk? I never took it out. I neither needed to nor wanted to. Once I realized (pretty much right away) that there was nothing weird or cultish about these people, and that it was just a guideline request, I stopped being paranoid about it and just relaxed.

Note to sponsors: give you sponsee a heads up on this stuff. No one likes to be surprised in that way. Help them be comfortable with leaving their phone at home and not checking in with their family for a couple days. Don't put them in a position where they feel ambushed.

Note to volunteers: don't be jerks about these guidelines. If someone really, desperately wants to bring his phone, so what? It really won't lessen their experience that much, but it would truly suck for them to miss out on the larger message because of it. What my walk organizers did was perfect: "Hey, guys -- please put your phones away -- you'll have more fun that way." I assume everyone on my walk followed that guideline, but I don't even know, because no one mentioned it again the entire weekend. And some of the volunteers were showing us sports scores on their own phones. We weren't being suppressed from the outside world, and you could easily figure out the time if you wanted to.

Which brings me to some posts I've read here and elsewhere about brainwashing. Again, I cannot speak to what others are doing at other walks, but there was nothing even close to that on mine. The only "sleep deprivation" I experienced was the guy next to me snoring too loudly. And no one ever manipulated my actions or put me in a position to say or do something because the herd was doing it ... other than "hey, walk this way to dinner because we're setting up the next activity in this other room." And since my walk concluded a while ago, I haven't been pressured to do anything. I think one of the goals of the program is to inspire people to be more intentional and active in leading at their local church, but it's not a requirement, and no one's guilting me into doing that.

Now, I will say that there are a couple groups of people who may have a difficulty with the walk. If you're uncomfortable talking about God and Jesus and praying with other people, this walk could make you uncomfortable. But, really, what are you doing there is that's not your thing? Someone did a poor job sponsoring you if that's the case. I've told you my story -- I'm not that guy who has the spirit of Jeezus all up in me -- but I do attend church. You probably shouldn't go if you're not comfortable doing churchy things with churchy people. It's not really an event for "seekers" or atheists or anything. But you don't have to be over-the-moon with God to attend either.

I think the other group of people are the ones who know everything about everything having to do with God and Jesus, and they know exactly what steps you must take every moment of your life to be the perfect Christian. I've seen some posts from those individuals, and I have a hard time imagining any event could live up to their standards. My walk was pretty casual, non-denominational, welcoming and inclusive. If you think there's only one way, then this may not be the event for you.

Oh, some other stuff I read about their being seniority in walk numbers? Never saw that. People mentioned what walk they went on in the same way someone mentions their hometown. A guy who went on Walk #5 was treated no differently than a guy from Walk #200. Also, I've read about it making people clique and superior? Haven't seen that either. I've been at my church for years, and among the people I interact with most frequently, some have been on the walk, and some haven't, and I really had no idea which was which. Now that I've been on a walk, we share stories about our experiences, but they don't act any different than anyone else. I certainly hope I don't. At some point during my walk, they made a point to basically say, "Don't go back home and be a jerk. You didn't just join some elite fraternity of special Christians. You're fortunate that you got to do this, but you're no better than anyone else. Cherish the experience you've had, and try to be a better you, whatever that means for you."

So, if you've stumbled upon this post and have read this far, let me summarize. The intent of Walk to Emmaus is extremely positive. My experience was incredible. There are not "secrets", just some really nice surprises. However, it would be intellectually dishonest to not accept that every walk is different, and just as the church down the street from mine is overcome by exclusionary judgmental piety, so is it possible that the walk you attend will be run my misguided individuals who miss the point of the whole thing. That makes me immensely sad to think about, because I would love for everyone to have the experience I had.

Ultimately, there's nothing weird about the walk. If you've been approached to go, try not to overthink it like I did. Go for a few days without your phone. It's not that big a deal, and I loved not being constantly reminded with work emails and texts from my wife asking if I paid the credit card bill yet. I can't say for sure whether your walk will be run by the same incredible individuals who ran mine, but I have to believe that most of them are. Still, my suggestion is to look to your sponsor. If you know your sponsor isn't some creepy cult follower, I think you can rest assured that you're going to be fine on your walk as he was fine on his. There was absolutely, positively, nothing about my walk that made a skeptic like me weirded out, and the only thing that made me uncomfortable was a guy near me who farted a lot.

 

[Inkachu]

I feel like this family member is "targeting" the children in our family...showering them with gifts, sending texts, trying to arrange dates to get together with them "without your parents". She won't have anything to do with the parents though, including texting the kids from a "secret" phone number...

I just came back in and saw this. And I say OH HECK NO. NO, no, no, no. You do not separate the kid from the parent. That is beyond creepy, it's predatory.

 

[Inkachu]

Sarthaz, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you had an overall positive experience.

One of the major themes running through this thread, though, is the "secrecy/surprise" element of the event. Nobody has ever just laid out what happens during the weekend, from start to finish. I've read testimonials of people who describe a little bit here and there, or just use vague terms "we gathered, we prayed, we ate, etc". But it's known that there are various "ceremonies" and such that are supposed to be very hush-hush and not shared with anyone on the outside, and that is where a lot of the concern lies, and where a lot of the raised eyebrows come from.

So, I'm wondering. Will YOU tell us what happens during the event, from start to finish?

 

[sarthaz]

Sarthaz, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you had an overall positive experience.

One of the major themes running through this thread, though, is the "secrecy/surprise" element of the event. Nobody has ever just laid out what happens during the weekend, from start to finish. I've read testimonials of people who describe a little bit here and there, or just use vague terms "we gathered, we prayed, we ate, etc". But it's known that there are various "ceremonies" and such that are supposed to be very hush-hush and not shared with anyone on the outside, and that is where a lot of the concern lies, and where a lot of the raised eyebrows come from.

So, I'm wondering. Will YOU tell us what happens during the event, from start to finish?

Of course not -- they're secrets! Booga booga! I'm joking Let me ask you this, because I don't know anything about you.

1) Is the Walk to Emmaus something you're interested in attending at some point in your life? Or are you just intellectually curious?

2) If I told you that there was nothing even remotely strange about the walk, would you believe me? If so, wonderful. If not, what would change in your ability to believe me if I told you the exact specifics?

Here's something I didn't think to mention. No one, at any point in my walk, ever told me not to talk about what happened. Not once. The closest thing to that is my sponsor smiled and said to me, "Now do you understand why I didn't tell you?" I was given no rules, no instructions. But I participated in something beautiful, and if anyone close to me wants to go on the walk, I hope they trust me enough not to make me tell them. Because I'm not going to hide anything -- I'll tell them if they want to know; but man, it's so much cooler to have the experience unfold without expectation.

Also, let me tell you this: the clergy at my church are known for telling people every detail about the walk when they ask, and it's a running joke that you have to keep them away from pilgrims before they spoil the surprise. They wouldn't do that if it were some big secret.

There are no hush-hush ceremonies, so I don't know how to answer that. Like I said, if you're not used to doing churchy things around churchy people, it might seem like there's some weird ceremony going on, but if you've been to a church service before (and I'm not talking Catholic Mass here -- contemporary Church of the Interwebs would do) and you've heard someone pray before, or you've seen a baptism or communion or confirmation or a sermon or y'know, stuff church people do -- you're not going to think there's any weird hush-hush ceremony. There's no charming snakes or faith healing or calling on the power of Cthulu or whatever worst-case you have in your mind.

I'll close with an analogy -- nay, a parable, cuz that's how Jesus rolls:

A fisherman was returning from a picture show. Along his journey, he encountered a farmer who himself was on his way to the same picture show. The farmer asked, "From whence do you come?" And the fisherman said, "I have been to see The Wizard of Oz. It was incredible." The farmer seemed concerned. "Yea, I have heard of this picture show, and I am wary. I do not know what happens. Tell me everything." The fisherman replied, "You don't want me to do that. The movie won't be as enjoyable, and you'll spend the whole time thinking about what I've told you and waiting for the scenes I've described instead of just enjoying yourself." And the farmer said, "OK. That makes perfect sense. I'll stop being so hung up on this."

I've heard people say, it's like not telling your kids what their Christmas present is, but I don't think that's the best analogy, because there's no big reveal or anything. I think it's closer to me going to see an incredible movie and then telling you all of the major scenes and all of the funny jokes. When you go to see the movie, it'll still be good. You may even LOVE it. But it's just not the same if someone's already told you all about it.

I don't know how to be more clear on this point: there are no "secrets". The details of Dorothy's adventure are not a "secret", but if I itemized it all for someone who'd never seen the film, it wouldn't be as enjoyable for them, and they'd miss out on the experience of having it unfold naturally.

 

[Inkachu]

1. I'm intellectually curious. I have no intentions of going on a Walk myself.


2. That would depend on both our definitions of "strange" lol.


3. Still waiting to hear a detailed rundown of your weekend I already know some of the "ceremonies" that are common to the Walk, but have yet to see anyone who's actually gone on a Walk openly describe them in this thread.


4. Would you be open to answering any questions posed to you about the Walk?

 

[sarthaz]

Probably not, mainly because I don't think it's my place. I realize you may discount me entirely because of that, and it's cool. Here's the thing, and please don't take this personally, because I assure you it's not: I don't know you. You may be the most honorable person on this forum, but to me, you're just a random stranger on the Internet. If I gave you a rundown, and then you ran around ruining it for other people, I'd feel pretty bad about that. I'm thankful that when I came to the Internet looking for info that I only got some vague gibberish and rantings from people with an axe to grind instead of concrete details. It made my experience better that way, and I'm not going to be the guy to diminish the experience of another random stranger on the Internet.

Take that for what it's worth. I'm not here to argue the merits or defend anything, and I don't doubt that there are people/chapters out there screwing up the Emmaus walk by making things weird. I'm simply here to share my story in hopes that it helps someone else who's heard there's something creepy going on and is apprehensive about it.

That's likely not enough for you, and I'm OK with that, and I don't begrudge you for it. Hopefully, you can understand where I'm coming from as well.

 

[Inkachu]

Since I've already researched the Walk and know most of the things that occur, you're not depriving me of any knowledge I don't already have, but yes, you are cementing for me that this whole thing is too shady for my comfort. And many others have said the same. My hope wasn't that you would reveal something that I didn't already know, but whether you would be WILLING to reveal it. And, like almost all the others who've gone on the Walk, you aren't.

I guess my conclusion is that the Walk might be beneficial for someone who wants or needs that particular type of thing (a weekend away from "the world" - including their own family - in order to fellowship with an exclusive group of fellow believers), but I don't think it's something that would benefit every Christian, or even most Christians. And I definitely don't think it's something that should just be promoted as a blanket "something everyone should do" type thing. It seems like people either love their experience, or feel utterly uncomfortable and weirded out by it; I can't imagine that if God had willed for this to be a tool for bringing people closer to Him, it would affect so many of His people in a negative way. That leads me to believe that this was created by people, for people, and God is almost an afterthought.

 

[sarthaz]

I can understand your position. I would not say it's something "everyone should do". I do have a hard time understanding how someone who regularly goes to church would find the walk I participated in off-putting, but like I've said, I definitely can understand how doing the walk improperly would be troublesome, and it sounds like some people have had some really bad experiences.

I don't agree with your ultimate conclusion, though. Some people are totally weirded out by going to church or being in a small group or praying aloud or talking to a priest or having someone pray for them or any of the numerous things Christians participate in. It doesn't make those things ungodly.

I remember some teenager standing up at my old church and delivering a holier-than-thou judgmental condemnation of all her peers. She's not a bad person. The church didn't turn her into a bad person. Her youth group isn't a failed disaster. She's just human. The Walk to Emmaus cannot avoid the same thing. My walk was wonderful, and the people who volunteered for it are truly special individuals. But not everyone does things for the right reasons or delivers the right message, and I believe the people who have had bad experiences were the unfortunate recipients of some failed humanity.

For your own curiosity, though, I am not unwilling to talk about my experience in detail. I am just unwilling to do it with strangers on the Internet. I have already shared my experience with some people in my life who I know are never going to do something like this. It's really no big deal. I'd probably share it with more people in my life, but the people I know who wouldn't be interested in attending a walk are also the kind of people who wouldn't be that interested in me talking about it. I'd be happy to tell them, but it'd just bore the crap out of them. It's like when you go on a great vacation trip, a few of your closest friends and relatives want all the details, but everyone else just wants you to shut up about it.

 

[seashale76]

See- here's where the argument falls apart. You create an account expressly to talk about the wonder that was Walk to Emmaus for you, and then, when the peddle hits the metal, so to speak, you demure saying that it is not that you're unwilling to talk about it, it's just that you're unwilling to talk about it.

This is the same sort of foolishness one hears from all secret societies. Everyone assures you that nothing is really a big deal, but they're going to keep their secrets anyway. Secrecy and Christianity don't mix- full stop.

 

[sarthaz]

Not really. I created the account, because I found this thread when I was researching my walk, and it almost scared me off. I got myself ready for battle because of the comments on here and the linked threads. Turns out there was nothing weird about my walk, and getting all worked up about it was a waste of my time, so I made a mental note to come back here and share that in case someone else in my situation stumbled across this thread. It's not an "argument", and it would be pointless to try to change the minds of those who have already decided the walk is some horrible thing that should be torn apart.

I will, however, suggest this ... if you really want to know what happens on a walk ... why not go on a walk? Take your phone and your watch and bring a spy camera. If you're strong of will, you should be able to resist all the brainwashing and snake charming and can report back to the masses and unmask the secrets! You call it a "secret society", but anyone can go. I asked some lady at my church whom I barely know, and she signed me up. And now I'm a Freemason!

Clearly, I jest (72 hours is a big commitment to investigate something you don't like), and this being the Internet, you'll probably turn my joking into some attempt at recruitment; but if you ever did go on a walk, I cannot guarantee you'd have a good time, but I can guarantee you'd feel a little silly about that secret society talk.

 

[Inkachu]

Everything I've read and heard says that it's invitation only. You can't just go. Someone has to "sponsor" you. Why you can't just drive yourself there, I still don't understand. I guess they don't want anyone going and then deciding it's not for them and they want to leave. You're more likely to stay and behave if you're deprived of a car.

 

[seashale76]

What's silly is all the dithering about keeping that information from people. If it's not really a big deal, then you should have no problem in giving a synopsis of what goes on. Instead you've taken jabs at anyone expressing doubts, anxiety, and questions as to the alleged need for secrecy and their own negative experiences- assuring everyone it's really all okay- but then not providing anything that truly answers any questions. If anything causes fear, doubts, anxiety, and you're cautioned to secrecy- then it isn't Christian. If you're adhering to some sort of scouts' honor secrecy pledge/agreement to not talk about your experience with others who haven't been part of it too- then you ARE in a secret society.

Personally, I have no particular burning curiosity over what really goes on. I don't participate in religious events that aren't Orthodox. I always take the opportunity to question anything that clearly DOES cause fear and anxiety and secrecy in others. Again- the fruit doesn't seem all that enticing.

 

[sarthaz]

Everything I've read and heard says that it's invitation only. You can't just go. Someone has to "sponsor" you. Why you can't just drive yourself there, I still don't understand. I guess they don't want anyone going and then deciding it's not for them and they want to leave. You're more likely to stay and behave if you're deprived of a car.

I'm far from an expert on this -- I just went and had a good time -- but I don't think it's "invitation" only. You do need a "sponsor", and there are a few reasons for that, but I barely knew my sponsor. I heard about it from another source, asked someone I barely knew at church about it, and was sponsored. I can see how some communities get cliquey about it, tho, and make it into some special club.

As for driving yourself there, I think some of it is to create an "experience." It's different when you drive yourself somewhere than if you ride on a bus with your buddies or are taken there by a sponsor. Also, part of the Emmaus experience is service to others, and there's an element of extreme service placed on the sponsor, who drives you out there and then drives back home. My sponsor left work early to drive 3 hours (in traffic) to get there and 2 hours to get home. Just to drop me off. You may think that's unnecessary or strange, but I thought it was cool. Also, at least at my walk, logistically it would have been impossible for others to drive. Even the people who had to be there carpooled, because there was such limited parking. That may not be the case everywhere. It also would have been a serious inconvenience if someone showed up late or got lost. I think all of that contributes to doing it that way. Before my walk, they gave me the address and phone number of where I was going. I mapped it, and it was easy to find and a short walk to a major hub of activity. It really wasn't that secretive, but I understand how it seems strange.

 

[sarthaz]

What's silly is all the dithering about keeping that information from people. If it's not really a big deal, then you should have no problem in giving a synopsis of what goes on. Instead you've taken jabs at anyone expressing doubts, anxiety, and questions as to the alleged need for secrecy and their own negative experiences- assuring everyone it's really all okay- but then not providing anything that truly answers any questions. If anything causes fear, doubts, anxiety, and you're cautioned to secrecy- then it isn't Christian. If you're adhering to some sort of scouts' honor secrecy pledge/agreement to not talk about your experience with others who haven't been part of it too- then you ARE in a secret society.

Personally, I have no particular burning curiosity over what really goes on. I don't participate in religious events that aren't Orthodox. I always take the opportunity to question anything that clearly DOES cause fear and anxiety and secrecy in others. Again- the fruit doesn't seem all that enticing.

I apologize if it feels like I'm taking jabs. That really is not my intent. Mostly, I feel silly for getting worked up about it, and I'm expressing that in my unique way. As I've stated, I too felt anxiety about this before I went, so I completely understand why others would as well.

As I've also stated, though, no one ever cautioned us to "secrecy". It never even remotely came up. I just have some common sense. My experience was enhanced by not knowing what was going to happen in advance and not anticipating how the events would unfold, so I make the leap that the same would be true for others. If you really want to know what happens, though, I'm sure you can find out pretty easily. Just ask Inkachu, or Google it. Like I said, my Pastor can't help telling people, because he gets so excited about sharing.

If it were a "secret society", I wouldn't be on the Internet talking about it. I'd keep my invite list secret and talk about it at our secret meetings, and anyone who had doubts would be unworthy of my effort to convince otherwise.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

See- here's where the argument falls apart. You create an account expressly to talk about the wonder that was Walk to Emmaus for you, and then, when the peddle hits the metal, so to speak, you demure saying that it is not that you're unwilling to talk about it, it's just that you're unwilling to talk about it.

This is the same sort of foolishness one hears from all secret societies. Everyone assures you that nothing is really a big deal, but they're going to keep their secrets anyway. Secrecy and Christianity don't mix- full stop.

In sarthaz' defense, I attended the Walk to Emmaus back in the 90s and eventually led a women's walk, before I became Orthodox. There is nothing cultish or sinister about it. They used to try to keep some of the things secret just so there would be nice surprises during the weekend. But even when I was active, that was giving way to more openness in order to avoid misunderstandings and rumors. I felt that it helped me, at the time. My husband also went, and it was helpful to him.

Mary

 

[Pilgrimschild]

I stumbled across this thread and am so glad that I did.
A few years ago, my Mother attended the "Walk to Emmaus". She was gone the entire three days, she came home gushing about how wonderful it was. But wouldn't tell us ANYTHING about her experience. Several of our church's members did "walks" of their own and often hold "reunions" which are closed to non pilgrims. While I would like to say that a "fire was lit" in my Mother after her "Walk", she became more of a slave to our Church (not God, the CHURCH itself). She gets up at 5am to unlock the Church. She locks up the Church at 9 pm. Every day of her life. She cleans the Church. She sets up tables and chairs. She runs the Sunday school. She vaccums, she paints, shovels snow, answers the phones. (Basically, you name it, she does it).
Now I said all of that, to say this.
While my Mom was being brainwashed to be a servant for our CHURCH (not God, the Church) my husband left me and our 7 day old baby to move across the country and shack up with a mistress. I needed my Mother. She was at Church.
Knowing my Birthday would be sad for me, my Father decided to throw me a small party (just myself, my son and my parents) we waited for three hours for my Mom to show up. She was at CHURCH. My Father was furious. This was the first time that my Mom showed us that CHURCH was now her top priority. Nothing. Else. Matters.
Since her walk, my parents do NOT go on vacations. They can't, as my Mom cannot leave the Church. As a matter of fact, any time my Mom leaves her house, she stops at the Church first. During the week, she can be found at the Church, bible studies, meetings, choir. Anywhere but home. I speak to her (as she is never home when I call) on sunday mornings when she picks my kids up for Sunday school.
Last year my Father had a medical emergency and spent a weekend in ICU. My mother notified the prayer chain and various other members of the church. But didn't call me to let me know. While at work, a member from the prayer chain asked me how dad was doing and I said "great!" It was when she asked if he was out of ICU yet that I realized something was wrong.
That building on Church street is the most important thing in my mom's life.
And it all started after her "walk".
Was she brainwashed?
Maybe.
Do I attend Church only to have some fake and fleeting relationship with my Mom?
Yes.
Am I bitter?
You bet.

 

[Old Guy]

I want to post this so that others might find it and help answer questions. I have never been on a Walk to Emmaus, but I serve in the Kairos Prison Ministry. The format for the Kairos program is based upon the Cursillo method, which Walk to Emmaus also uses. I find the references to a 72 hour walk like "being in prison" funny since I help deliver the same program to prisoners in prison.


We have prisoners sign up for the program, come the first day and don't come back. That accounts for typically 10%. It is not surprising to me that approximately 1 in 10 don't wish to stay for the WTE. Since much of this discussion is about what goes on, I will share with you the format.

1. People get introduced to one another. Our Kairos uses a self-introduction method.

2. The majority of the time over the 4 days is taken up by talks. Our Kairos has 10 talks – I think WTE is the same. These talks are delivered by lay speakers - guys like me.

3. The routine on the talks goes like this; (a) listen to speaker 10-12 minutes, (b) table family discusses what they heard and what it means 20-25 minutes, (c) draw a poster of what they heard and what it meant to them. As leaders, we just steer the discussion and ask open ended questions. We don’t make them do anything. We obviously hope they participate, but it’s their choice.

4. We have meals with them. Yes, I eat prison food. But more than that, we take in cookies. They get cookies and fresh coffee on the table all weekend, as much as they want. That is a treat for them. This is the only reason some of them sign up to attend. In our facility, (just like Emmaus) attendance is voluntary. Nobody makes them go – nobody should be making you go to Emmaus – it should be because you are seeking something. I can’t tell you the number of times guys came for the cookies or food but come away with so much more.

5. We have sidebar conversations with them. Some of them are curious about Christianity and Jesus, and will ask questions. We answer as best we can, but don’t know everything.

6. They have an opportunity to sing some songs. Some guys do and some guys don’t. I’m not much of a voice, so sometimes I just hum along, but at times I do sing.

7. We don’t stay in prison for the weekend, but they go back to their cells and we go to a motel. Emmaus is a retreat, so everybody stays at the same compound.

8. There is a forgiveness ceremony. They have an opportunity to forgive people that they have done wrong. Many of them start with forgiving themselves. The idea is they have the opportunity to release some of the baggage they have been carrying. I imagine that might similar to the Emmaus Candlelight ceremony.

9. They get some gifts. We are not talking birthday present type gifts. These gifts have very little or no monetary value but have sentiment as their primary purpose.

10. The overarching thing we do for the weekend is listening. These men typically have never had anybody just listen to them. We are trained to just listen. The results of that are what Kairos is about; this information is to help understand Emmaus.

11. At the close of the weekend, they have an opportunity to express what they learned and how they felt about the weekend. Some take that opportunity, others don’t.


That’s it. That’s what is involved. Many people have told me that the Kairos program is almost exactly what the Emmaus Walk is like. Things are just called different names. I know that the 10 talks are almost identical in topic. The difference is the personal story of the deliverer.


If you have a problem being away from your cell phone, or not having your car available for 72 hours, then you probably should not go on an Emmaus Walk. If you don’t want to share a room with a non-family member or adhere to a scheduled program, then you should not go on an Emmaus Walk (or a business conference for that matter).


I read this entire thread. I believe that Sarthaz has it about correct. I liked his seeing the movie reference. If I was asked to put my cell phone away for the weekend, I would feel one way. If my cell phone was taken, locked in a box and buried, I would feel another way.


I have tried to be factual to this point. Now, just a bit of opinion; I believe that being a Christian and living a Christian life requires that we have some element of “submission” in our lives. We don’t just get to do what we want all the time, and be Christians. We are asked to pray, read the bible, evangelize, help and love our neighbors, and to be in community. Some of us need more “submission” than others. Submitting allows us to draw closer to God. Again, that’s my opinion.


Giving up my cell phone for a bit and being without my car seems a little bit like “submitting”. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Can I do it? Sure. Do I want to? That’s the real question, in my opinion. That question begets the next question – why would I want to do that? I believe the answer is to have an experience (for a short time) that draws us a bit closer to God.


Someone wrote that they wanted to know about Emmaus to satisfy their intellectual curiosity. If you approach this without a modicum of Faith in Jesus Christ in your life, then I bet you will be disappointed. I’m guessing that God never intended to reveal everything to the intellectually curious. I’m guess He is willing to reveal more to the faithful. I hope to ask Him that someday.


Faith in this case means (to me) submitting to a program for 72 hours where I don’t know the exact agenda ahead of time. If you don’t have your cell phone for a bit, and that bothers you, is that the Emmaus program problem? You've got the general idea of the program, or your sponsor should tell you the general idea. If you must know every detail before signing up, then you should ask yourself about your faith and what you are seeking.

I don’t reject or diminish the bad experiences that people had who posted earlier. What they experienced was real and I’m not here to diminish that. I’m truly sorry they had a bad experience. Just like some prisoners don’t have a good Kairos experience and others do, it’s not the same for everybody. Both are very real. I’m a sinner and I’m imperfect. I serve in a prison ministry program. I’m certain that I have let pilgrims down on their walk, just the way that I’m sure well-meaning Emmaus leaders have let down those that posted earlier.


Each of us has to decide how much faith we have, want, and need, and what we choose to have faith about.

 

[Phil G]

I want to post this so that others might find it and help answer questions. I have never been on a Walk to Emmaus, but I serve in the Kairos Prison Ministry. The format for the Kairos program is based upon the Cursillo method, which Walk to Emmaus also uses. I find the references to a 72 hour walk like "being in prison" funny since I help deliver the same program to prisoners in prison.


We have prisoners sign up for the program, come the first day and don't come back. That accounts for typically 10%. It is not surprising to me that approximately 1 in 10 don't wish to stay for the WTE. Since much of this discussion is about what goes on, I will share with you the format.

1. People get introduced to one another. Our Kairos uses a self-introduction method.

2. The majority of the time over the 4 days is taken up by talks. Our Kairos has 10 talks – I think WTE is the same. These talks are delivered by lay speakers - guys like me.

3. The routine on the talks goes like this; (a) listen to speaker 10-12 minutes, (b) table family discusses what they heard and what it means 20-25 minutes, (c) draw a poster of what they heard and what it meant to them. As leaders, we just steer the discussion and ask open ended questions. We don’t make them do anything. We obviously hope they participate, but it’s their choice.

4. We have meals with them. Yes, I eat prison food. But more than that, we take in cookies. They get cookies and fresh coffee on the table all weekend, as much as they want. That is a treat for them. This is the only reason some of them sign up to attend. In our facility, (just like Emmaus) attendance is voluntary. Nobody makes them go – nobody should be making you go to Emmaus – it should be because you are seeking something. I can’t tell you the number of times guys came for the cookies or food but come away with so much more.

5. We have sidebar conversations with them. Some of them are curious about Christianity and Jesus, and will ask questions. We answer as best we can, but don’t know everything.

6. They have an opportunity to sing some songs. Some guys do and some guys don’t. I’m not much of a voice, so sometimes I just hum along, but at times I do sing.

7. We don’t stay in prison for the weekend, but they go back to their cells and we go to a motel. Emmaus is a retreat, so everybody stays at the same compound.

8. There is a forgiveness ceremony. They have an opportunity to forgive people that they have done wrong. Many of them start with forgiving themselves. The idea is they have the opportunity to release some of the baggage they have been carrying. I imagine that might similar to the Emmaus Candlelight ceremony.

9. They get some gifts. We are not talking birthday present type gifts. These gifts have very little or no monetary value but have sentiment as their primary purpose.

10. The overarching thing we do for the weekend is listening. These men typically have never had anybody just listen to them. We are trained to just listen. The results of that are what Kairos is about; this information is to help understand Emmaus.

11. At the close of the weekend, they have an opportunity to express what they learned and how they felt about the weekend. Some take that opportunity, others don’t.


That’s it. That’s what is involved. Many people have told me that the Kairos program is almost exactly what the Emmaus Walk is like. Things are just called different names. I know that the 10 talks are almost identical in topic. The difference is the personal story of the deliverer.


If you have a problem being away from your cell phone, or not having your car available for 72 hours, then you probably should not go on an Emmaus Walk. If you don’t want to share a room with a non-family member or adhere to a scheduled program, then you should not go on an Emmaus Walk (or a business conference for that matter).


I read this entire thread. I believe that Sarthaz has it about correct. I liked his seeing the movie reference. If I was asked to put my cell phone away for the weekend, I would feel one way. If my cell phone was taken, locked in a box and buried, I would feel another way.


I have tried to be factual to this point. Now, just a bit of opinion; I believe that being a Christian and living a Christian life requires that we have some element of “submission” in our lives. We don’t just get to do what we want all the time, and be Christians. We are asked to pray, read the bible, evangelize, help and love our neighbors, and to be in community. Some of us need more “submission” than others. Submitting allows us to draw closer to God. Again, that’s my opinion.


Giving up my cell phone for a bit and being without my car seems a little bit like “submitting”. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Can I do it? Sure. Do I want to? That’s the real question, in my opinion. That question begets the next question – why would I want to do that? I believe the answer is to have an experience (for a short time) that draws us a bit closer to God.


Someone wrote that they wanted to know about Emmaus to satisfy their intellectual curiosity. If you approach this without a modicum of Faith in Jesus Christ in your life, then I bet you will be disappointed. I’m guessing that God never intended to reveal everything to the intellectually curious. I’m guess He is willing to reveal more to the faithful. I hope to ask Him that someday.


Faith in this case means (to me) submitting to a program for 72 hours where I don’t know the exact agenda ahead of time. If you don’t have your cell phone for a bit, and that bothers you, is that the Emmaus program problem? You've got the general idea of the program, or your sponsor should tell you the general idea. If you must know every detail before signing up, then you should ask yourself about your faith and what you are seeking.

I don’t reject or diminish the bad experiences that people had who posted earlier. What they experienced was real and I’m not here to diminish that. I’m truly sorry they had a bad experience. Just like some prisoners don’t have a good Kairos experience and others do, it’s not the same for everybody. Both are very real. I’m a sinner and I’m imperfect. I serve in a prison ministry program. I’m certain that I have let pilgrims down on their walk, just the way that I’m sure well-meaning Emmaus leaders have let down those that posted earlier.


Each of us has to decide how much faith we have, want, and need, and what we choose to have faith about.

Hi "Old Guy", I have heard of Kairos and thank you for posting how it operates. I think though that in some ways you've missed how WTE causes problems for people. It's not that WTE folks have so much as "let down" participants. It's more that they haven't taken responsibility for the hurt caused.

I would say that submission to a 72 hour program "without mistrust", as WTE put it, is against Biblical principles. God tells us to test everything and the Bereans in Acts 17 were commended for not trusting Paul and Silas before assessing their message. WTE don't want people to do that. They want submission and trust straight away. They indicate that the time for assessment is after the weekend. But that is a dangerous position to take. If anyone was to apply that to other weekends such as being invited to a weekend by the Moonies for example, they could very easily find themselves entrapped by the group.

Trust is something which I have found, amongst those I know who have gone, to be the biggest reason why people decided to attend WTE. Whether they had good experiences or not, they all seemed to have trusted a friend instead of questioning the organisation or program. Then, on the first night when they arrive at the weekend, they are told to trust the program and the team implementing it. I find that appalling. One of the main principles of people involved in teaching ministry is to make sure that people just don't trust what is said, but check it out for themselves.

Not wanting to submit to removal of phones and watches and not having use of a car during the weekend sounds a bit petty in the light of prison ministry but WTE is for those not in prison. Cults are well aware of the effects of such submission on a participant. It places him/her into a position of reliance on the group for their every move. So much so that wanting to decline participation in parts of the program was met with loving but firm insistence that they participate fully.

Some of the people I know who have had negative experiences have said how this was done. One wanted to take a break from the talks (there are actually 15 of them in WTE) but was taken aside and effectively given a pep talk about the importance of participation. Another wanted to leave because of a family emergency but was told there was nobody available to provide transport.

What these show me is that there is no respect for peoples' choices once at the weekend. While some WTE members may say that this shouldn't happen, it does. And the WTE program seems to me to be set up in such a way as to encourage this type of behaviour. Participants are told that every part of the program is important, no matter how insignificant it may seem. This, to me, could have the effect of a WTE team member thinking if the participant declines participation in any way, he/she will not get the full benefit of the weekend.

For me on the outside of the WTE experience looking in, I see a group cloaked in secrecy (so as not to 'spoil' the surprises), insisting on full participation and coming between people. Some folks I have communicated with have told me of the hurt of their spouse being kept from talking to them during the weekend (even for an emergency) and others how their spouse had changed after the weekend, and not for the better.

Even allowing for WTE groups being respectful to individual choices and allowing freedom to decline or leave as they want, what this adds up to for me is that WTE is a group not to be trusted. No one member can guarantee a WTE group will act in a respectful and proper manner. When folks who have had negative experiences try to complain, the umbrella group of Upper Room Ministries does not seem to act to correct the situation.

But to go back to my first point, I see it as wrong to expect people to trust a group or program without knowing beforehand what is going on with it. Withholding information about the weekend, as in the 'surprises', is to me, a manipulation and hands control of the weekend to WTE and not to God.

You say "each of us has to decide how much faith we have, want, and need, and what we choose to have faith about". I agree. But faith in WTE is a misplaced faith. Faith in Him and Him alone is where He wants us to be. That may mean not trusting a friend or a group or a program.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Hi all I am in need of advice, and I realize this might be a sensitive (in the sense of security... I guess) topic, so I try to be tactful. I have a loved one that has been invited to "Walk to Emmaus". Since I never heard of such an event, I spent some time researching it. That's when a warning lights in my brain started to go off.

My number one concern is the secrecy (or rather, 'surprises') surrounding the event. That is the one thing that bothers me the most.

Based on personal experiences/testimonies I've read about online, 90% of the people have 'wonderful life changing experiences'. Now I'm not doubting the honesty and sincerity of these people, but the other 10% (these aren't actually numbers, but approximations based on googling) claim to have experienced pseudo-cultish activities, and even some claims of mild brain washing techniques.

While yes, I know you can't believe everything thats on the internet, this does give me pause for concern. If (that's a big if, I'm not making unfounded claims) brain washing tactics are used, 90% positive responses would be expected, as it would be an efficient brain washing program. The loved one planning to attend, is a strong christian, but I'm afraid, would be susceptible to emotional manipulation.

I wouldn't even ask about this and assume this is an excellent program, except it has been weighing on my heart and that stands out to me. What I am looking for is an objective explanation (ie not: it was wonderful, it changed my life, you'll have to experience it for yourself, etc etc) of what goes on at one of these retreats, even the "surprises". You won't be ruining anything for me, I don't plan on attending. I've pieced together some of what occurs at a "Walk to Emmaus", but I won't mention it here, as I don't know what is supoosed to be a "surprise". If you want to tell me in PM, so it isn't on the boards, and a minimal amount of "surprise ruining" occurs, feel free. Or, I will provide my email address (I don't think I can PM yet, as I am a new forum goer).

If this is truly a God-blessed program, please help subside my doubts and fears. Many thanks!

I have come across concerns regarding Emmaus Walks.

I wouldn't do one. It would be pointless and inadvisable from an Orthodox Christian perspective.

 

[Old Guy]

Hi "Old Guy", I have heard of Kairos and thank you for posting how it operates. I think though that in some ways you've missed how WTE causes problems for people. It's not that WTE folks have so much as "let down" participants. It's more that they haven't taken responsibility for the hurt caused.

I would say that submission to a 72 hour program "without mistrust", as WTE put it, is against Biblical principles. God tells us to test everything and the Bereans in Acts 17 were commended for not trusting Paul and Silas before assessing their message. WTE don't want people to do that. They want submission and trust straight away. They indicate that the time for assessment is after the weekend. But that is a dangerous position to take. If anyone was to apply that to other weekends such as being invited to a weekend by the Moonies for example, they could very easily find themselves entrapped by the group.

Trust is something which I have found, amongst those I know who have gone, to be the biggest reason why people decided to attend WTE. Whether they had good experiences or not, they all seemed to have trusted a friend instead of questioning the organisation or program. Then, on the first night when they arrive at the weekend, they are told to trust the program and the team implementing it. I find that appalling. One of the main principles of people involved in teaching ministry is to make sure that people just don't trust what is said, but check it out for themselves.

Not wanting to submit to removal of phones and watches and not having use of a car during the weekend sounds a bit petty in the light of prison ministry but WTE is for those not in prison. Cults are well aware of the effects of such submission on a participant. It places him/her into a position of reliance on the group for their every move. So much so that wanting to decline participation in parts of the program was met with loving but firm insistence that they participate fully.

Some of the people I know who have had negative experiences have said how this was done. One wanted to take a break from the talks (there are actually 15 of them in WTE) but was taken aside and effectively given a pep talk about the importance of participation. Another wanted to leave because of a family emergency but was told there was nobody available to provide transport.

What these show me is that there is no respect for peoples' choices once at the weekend. While some WTE members may say that this shouldn't happen, it does. And the WTE program seems to me to be set up in such a way as to encourage this type of behaviour. Participants are told that every part of the program is important, no matter how insignificant it may seem. This, to me, could have the effect of a WTE team member thinking if the participant declines participation in any way, he/she will not get the full benefit of the weekend.

For me on the outside of the WTE experience looking in, I see a group cloaked in secrecy (so as not to 'spoil' the surprises), insisting on full participation and coming between people. Some folks I have communicated with have told me of the hurt of their spouse being kept from talking to them during the weekend (even for an emergency) and others how their spouse had changed after the weekend, and not for the better.

Even allowing for WTE groups being respectful to individual choices and allowing freedom to decline or leave as they want, what this adds up to for me is that WTE is a group not to be trusted. No one member can guarantee a WTE group will act in a respectful and proper manner. When folks who have had negative experiences try to complain, the umbrella group of Upper Room Ministries does not seem to act to correct the situation.

But to go back to my first point, I see it as wrong to expect people to trust a group or program without knowing beforehand what is going on with it. Withholding information about the weekend, as in the 'surprises', is to me, a manipulation and hands control of the weekend to WTE and not to God.

You say "each of us has to decide how much faith we have, want, and need, and what we choose to have faith about". I agree. But faith in WTE is a misplaced faith. Faith in Him and Him alone is where He wants us to be. That may mean not trusting a friend or a group or a program.