dinosaurs lived with man proof academic books

[Biologist]

(Or they painted templates and carved them accurately. 12 century Cambodians certainly didn't use photoshop)

Come on, the people who built the temple have a "Rhino Sutra." Be smart, admit you were mistaken. Else there's going to be a big long discussion about Buddhism and Buddhism accessories.

"is of such extraordinary construction that it is not possible to describe it with a pen, particularly since it is like no other building in the world. It has towers and decoration and all the refinements which the human genius can conceive of."

Book of the Rhino:
Khaggavisana Sutta: A Rhinoceros

Reality isn't Fraud. It's a giant temple. How else(other than templates) are they going to carve it? "Aliens?"

 

[cre8id]

(Or they painted templates and carved them accurately. 12 century Cambodians certainly didn't use photoshop)

Come on, the people who built the temple have a "Rhino Sutra." Be smart, admit you were mistaken. Else there's going to be a big long discussion about Buddhism and Buddhism accessories.

"is of such extraordinary construction that it is not possible to describe it with a pen, particularly since it is like no other building in the world. It has towers and decoration and all the refinements which the human genius can conceive of."

Book of the Rhino:
Khaggavisana Sutta: A Rhinoceros

Reality isn't Fraud. It's a giant temple. How else(other than templates) are they going to carve it? "Aliens?"

And you have not shown evidence that all 4 of the pictures you posted are really of different carvings. Until do, my comments about the original photo being PhotoShopped stands... template or not, the fine lines in the carvings look too similar. And if you were investigating a questionable photo(s), that should be one of your concerns also (when PhotoShopped fake pictures, like really giant humans being uncovered by archaeologists, flood the internet).

 

[USincognito]

Funny thing, though: even if the carving was of a stegosaurus (the "spines" are decoration, not a part of the animal carving, you can see more of them in the design around the animal part, btw), that wouldn't disprove evolution, it'd mean that stegosaurus went extinct at a different time than the fossil record suggests (which can happen, due to the rarity of fossils. Consider the coelacanth as an example of a real life currently living organism that was thought to have gone extinct about 66 million years ago).

A herd of T-rex walking down the streets of Bozeman, MT would be less problematic for evolution than a single tooth in Triassic strata.

 

[USincognito]

Besides the fact that there are no fossils connecting the well-known Late Jurassic and Early Cretaceous stegosaurs with the supposed modern stegosaur at Angkor Wat, there can't have been just one stegosaur living in Cambodia 800 years ago (about 1200 AD). There must have been herds of them with a history going back to the flood or the creation. Why are there no descriptions of such extraordinary creatures in Chinese or Indian sources, or even in Greek and Roman literature or in the Bible? Why are there no other pictures of them?

And from a geographic standpoint, stegosaurs lived in North America, not Southeast Asia.

 

[cre8id]

A herd of T-rex walking down the streets of Bozeman, MT would be less problematic for evolution than a single tooth in Triassic strata.

I can understand that. As someone has already pointed out, there is nothing in evolutionary theory that would prevent a few small herds of animals to endure for long after they were thought to be extinct. The Coelacanth was supposed to be extinct for seventy million years... until one turned up in a fisherman's net off the coast of Madagascar and was recognized by a scientist (I think it was at the fish market when he found it).

Creationists have created a number of sites dedicated to "living fossils"... there are quite a few "living fossils". They do not prove creation by any stretch of the imagination, but the timespan involved would be considerably shorter under the creation model than the evolutionary "deep time" model.

 

[cre8id]

And from a geographic standpoint, stegosaurs lived in North America, not Southeast Asia.

...That we know of... from the fossils. But, the stories of new and unexpected fossil finds come out relatively frequently.

 

[Biologist]

And you have not shown evidence that all 4 of the pictures you posted are really of different carvings. Until you you, my comments about the original photo being PhotoShopped stands... template or not, the fine lines in the carvings look too similar. And if you were investigating a questionable photo(s), that should be one of your concerns also (when PhotoShopped fake pictures, like really giant humans being uncovered by archaeologists, flood the internet).

"The fine lines in disney films look to similar. Must be photoshopped."(Aliens?)

I can assure the Angkor Wat is real, and spectacular beyond belief. You can see "precise duplicates" in hundreds of photos because the temple wasn't built free hand. It was Master stone carvers and skilled artists. How many photos of the Angkor Wat have you seen exactly? Each carving, even insignificant works(like the 4 rhinos) is beautiful. Some of the Art is without equal. I would certainly call it the greatest temple ever constructed. There isn't a Cambodian Monk that visits the Wat and thinks that carving is a stegosaurus. It would almost be hard to notice such an insignificant carving anyways. Like walking into the Louvre and taking photos of individual floor tiles.

 

[cre8id]

"The fine lines in disney films look to similar. Must be photoshopped."(Aliens?)

I can assure the Angkor Wat is real, and spectacular beyond belief. You can see "precise duplicates" in hundreds of photos because the temple wasn't built free hand. It was Master stone carvers and skilled artists. How many photos of the Angkor Wat have you seen exactly? Each carving, even insignificant works(like the 4 rhinos) is beautiful. Some of the Art is without equal. I would certainly call it the greatest temple ever constructed. There isn't a Cambodian Monk that visits the Wat and thinks that carving is a stegosaurus. It would almost be hard to notice such an insignificant carving anyways.

Then you won't mind sharing the source of your pictures.

 

[Biologist]

Then you won't mind sharing the source of your pictures.

Because I really really want you as a Protestant Creationist to see all the beautiful carvings of Hinduism and Buddhism. What you are asking, I can not do. It would be like taking you to the Louvre and only showing you boring small dull Mona Lisa. The Angkor Wat is worth a google.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

That's the most specific I have seen a YEC get with how old they thought the world was.

I can do better than that. Today is Day 9, Month 6, year 5987.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

The facts you need to explain is why dinosaur fossils are only found in geologic layers below igneous rocks with a specific ratio of isotopes consistent with 65 million years of radioactive decay.

You can argue against radiometric dating all you want, but those isotopes are still there. If radiometric dating is all wrong, then why don't we find dinosaurs in rocks that are dated to 3 million years ago, or humans that are dated to 3 billion years ago? Why do we always find dinosaur fossils up until we get to the K/T boundary and not after?

Fossils are found in peat bogs, ice, permafrost etc. Can you prove citations for your statement? And your assuming a linear rate of decay for isotopes. We have no idea if the rate was faster when the Earth was created but that is what is implied given the young age of the Earth.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

In reference to the previous discussion of are they rhinos versus dinosaurs. After proper examination I count 4 rhinos. Which is the only answer anyone should ever give accounting for the fact that rhinos are native to the region and time period. And the fact that multiple other animals share the same artistic pattern. It's not like we have to guess that the two creatures below the first rhino are some sort of spiny mammals because it's obviously a decorative pattern. The Rhino should be clear as well, even without other examples.

As Cre8id suggests we need more proof that these come from the temple, is there any video footage?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So your explanation, assuming the "stegasauras" carving is really a stegasauras, is to assume that people found a fossil of the animal and had the sense to put the pieces together in correct order and then make a carving? Really?

As I explained, considering how MUCH of the natural sciences would have to be WRONG in for the alternative to be true... yes, it is incredibly more likely that these people simply encountered well preserved remains of this creature.

That stagosaurus lived 150 million years ago, dino's in general going extinct 65 million years and humans showing up only in the last 200.000 years is not just some idea based on an observation or two...

Those are rather conclusion to which practically ALL the natural sciences converge independently.

We would have to be wrong about a RIDICULOUS AMOUNT of things. Geology, physics, chemistry, biology, paleontology, etc etc etc.

It is much more likely that these people encountered the remains of a stego then that we are wrong about pretty much everything.

And keep in mind that this is already bending over backwards by assuming the depicted animal is a stegosaurus - which I'm not buying for a second.

How many complete or even almost complete, articulated, dinosaur fossils do you think there are? Not many. They are a very rare find. In the part of the world where the temple resides, if they had found such a rare find, they would have called it a dragon (it predates the coining of the word "dinosaur" by several hundred years) and would have more likely ground up the fossil to sell as an aphrodisiac... for money.

1. there are no names on that carving - it doesn't mention what it is. And obviously if they would give it a name, it would not be "stegosaurus"

2. making a rare find is still more likely then practically all of science being wrong.

Again, what are the chances of those that carved the temple knew what the Stegasarus looked like?

Bigger then practically all of our science being wrong.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

I am looking for academic books that deals with the claims that man lived with dinosaurs?

I heard on the radio that there is a lot of documentation for both living at the same time in the last 6,000 years.

I want the non Bible sources only.

There is this account written by Cassius Dio a Roman historian b.155 AD d.235 AD Nicaea, Bithynia, Turkey:

Ioannes Damascenus, De Draconibus I., p472
When winter came on, Manlius sailed back to Rome with the booty, while Regulus remained behind in Africa. The Carthaginians found themselves in the depths of woe, since their country was being pillaged and their neighbours alienated; and cooped up in their fortifications, they remained inactive.

Now while Regulus was encamped beside the Bagradas river, there appeared a serpent of huge bulk, the length of which is said to have been one hundred and twenty feet (for its slough was carried to Rome for exhibition), and the rest of its body corresponded in size. It destroyed many of the soldiers who approached it and some also who were drinking from the river. Regulus overcame it with a crowd of soldiers and with catapults.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is this account written by Cassius Dio a Roman historian b.155 AD d.235 AD Nicaea, Bithynia, Turkey:

Ioannes Damascenus, De Draconibus I., p472
When winter came on, Manlius sailed back to Rome with the booty, while Regulus remained behind in Africa. The Carthaginians found themselves in the depths of woe, since their country was being pillaged and their neighbours alienated; and cooped up in their fortifications, they remained inactive.

Now while Regulus was encamped beside the Bagradas river, there appeared a serpent of huge bulk, the length of which is said to have been one hundred and twenty feet (for its slough was carried to Rome for exhibition), and the rest of its body corresponded in size. It destroyed many of the soldiers who approached it and some also who were drinking from the river. Regulus overcame it with a crowd of soldiers and with catapults.

That's it?

That's your evidence of dino's being alive some 2000 years ago?

 

[Guide To The Bible]

That's it?

That's your evidence of dino's being alive some 2000 years ago?

No, of course not, it's just one written account of a possible historical account of a dinosaur that the OP asked us to supply. Did you read the OP?

 

[USincognito]

...That we know of... from the fossils. But, the stories of new and unexpected fossil finds come out relatively frequently.

Jungles as we know them didn't exist in the Jurassic (nor the Cretaceous) - I know you reject those as time frames, but work with me here - but they did exist in Cambodia for the last few thousand years. Jungle and forest soils tend to be moist and acidic which break down bones instead of fossilizing them so if there was a population of stegosaurs living in Cambodia 1,200 years ago I wouldn't expect us to find any bones that old, much less Jurassic fossils.

 

[USincognito]

Just as a reminder.

 

[Loudmouth]

I can understand that. As someone has already pointed out, there is nothing in evolutionary theory that would prevent a few small herds of animals to endure for long after they were thought to be extinct.

Finding an isolated population of dinosaurs that survived to the present would also not cast the age of dinosaur fossils into doubt. It also wouldn't cast doubt on the finding that no humans were around 65 million years ago.

The Coelacanth was supposed to be extinct for seventy million years... until one turned up in a fisherman's net off the coast of Madagascar and was recognized by a scientist (I think it was at the fish market when he found it).

A coelacanth species was found. There is no the coelacanth. Even in the fossil record we have nearly 100 recognized species of coelacanth. Also, it isn't surprising that we don't find numerous fossils of species that live in deep ocean waters. What it highlights is how rare fossilization is, how incomplete our search of the fossil record is, and why a lack of fossils for every single species that has ever lived is not a valid argument against evolution.

They do not prove creation by any stretch of the imagination, but the timespan involved would be considerably shorter under the creation model than the evolutionary "deep time" model.

It is the isotopes in rocks that determine the age of a fossil.

 

[Loudmouth]

Fossils are found in peat bogs, ice, permafrost etc. Can you prove citations for your statement?

Radiometric Dating

A great resource for learning how radiometric dating is done.

The facts are that dinosaurs are found above the K/T boundary, and that boundary is one of the most well dated and well established boundaries there are in the geologic record. Those rocks have been dated by multiple independent dating methods, and the results are all very consistent.

And your assuming a linear rate of decay for isotopes.

Scientists are using a logarithmic decay rate, and they don't assume that decay was the same in the past. They have tested for steady decay rates using multiple methods, and they have found mountains of evidence supporting constant decay rates.

The radioactive decay rates of nuclides used in radiometric dating have not been observed to vary since their rates were directly measurable, at least within limits of accuracy. This is despite experiments that attempt to change decay rates (Emery 1972). Extreme pressure can cause electron-capture decay rates to increase slightly (less than 0.2 percent), but the change is small enough that it has no detectable effect on dates.

Supernovae are known to produce a large quantity of radioactive isotopes (Nomoto et al. 1997a, 1997b; Thielemann et al. 1998). These isotopes produce gamma rays with frequencies and fading rates that are predictable according to present decay rates. These predictions hold for supernova SN1987A, which is 169,000 light-years away (Knödlseder 2000). Therefore, radioactive decay rates were not significantly different 169,000 years ago. Present decay rates are likewise consistent with observations of the gamma rays and fading rates of supernova SN1991T, which is sixty million light-years away (Prantzos 1999), and with fading rate observations of supernovae billions of light-years away (Perlmutter et al. 1998).

The Oklo reactor was the site of a natural nuclear reaction 1,800 million years ago. The fine structure constant affects neutron capture rates, which can be measured from the reactor's products. These measurements show no detectable change in the fine structure constant and neutron capture for almost two billion years (Fujii et al. 2000; Shlyakhter 1976).
CF210: Constancy of Radioactive Decay Rates​

We have no idea if the rate was faster when the Earth was created but that is what is implied given the young age of the Earth.

We do know that the rates were the same in the past. We have the evidence.