Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[scottyp588]

Look at the last part of Mark 16:16. You are not condemned for not being baptized. Only for not believing.

 

[MarysSon]

If you're going to accuse me of cherry-picking then at last have a scripture to back up your argument.

1 Cor. 1:10-17
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.

For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.

I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I give thanks [to God] that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.

(I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)


You cherry-picked verses OUT of context.


For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence,* so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.

 

[MarysSon]

Look at the last part of Mark 16:16. You are not condemned for not being baptized. Only for not believing.

Yes - LET'S look at the last part.
First of all - Jesus says "AND":
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Being baptized is PART or "believing". It's not something separate.

 

[JohnKing67]

1 Cor. 1:10-17
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.

For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.

I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I give thanks [to God] that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.

(I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)


You cherry-picked verses OUT of context.


For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence,* so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.

You didn't answer why Paul said “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel". Why wouldn't Christ send Paul to baptize if it were so important to salvation?

 

[MarysSon]

You didn't answer why Paul said “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel". Why wouldn't Christ send Paul to baptize if it were so important to salvation?

That's because it is the very next verse.
I was showing you the context of what Paul was talking about - BEFORE he said:

"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence,* so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning."

 

[JohnKing67]

"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence,* so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning."

That verse seems to defend my point. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the replies.

 

[MarysSon]

That verse seems to defend my point. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the replies.

And again, it only defends your point if you cherry-pick it out of context with the rest of that chapter.

Cherry-picking verses and inventing doctrines is why we have exactly what Paul warned against Tens of thousands of disjointed, perpetually-splintering sects - ALL teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have the "truth".

 

[JohnKing67]

And again, it only defends your point if you cherry-pick it out of context with the rest of that chapter.

Cherry-picking verses and inventing doctrines is why we have exactly what Paul warned against Tens of thousands of disjointed, perpetually-splintering sects - ALL teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have the "truth".

Well for me you didn't disprove the last verse I used so I wouldn't call it cherry-picking. I call it using a verse to back up my point. I have no more to say about this. Bye.

 

[Der Alte]

That's NOT what Jesus said . . .
John 3:5
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of WATER and Spirit."
Baptism is a REBIRTH - not just a "public ritual". It is a necessity.
that's why Jesus also said:
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved.

In post #397 you say that someone is cherry picking verses . That is exactly what is being done here. Is there any verse anywhere which equates baptism with birth? I do not know of any but I do know of three verses which depict baptism as death.

Colossians 2:12
(12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:3-4
(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

Baptism cannot be birth and death at the same time.

John 3:5
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."​

Since baptism is never equated with birth, "water" in Jn 3:5 refers to natural birth as Jesus explains in the next verse.

John 3:6
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

Note the word "spirit" in both verses, "born of spirit" "that which is born of the spirit is spirit" but where did "flesh" come from in vs. 6? Is Jesus now talking about something different in vs. 6? No, "born of water" equates to "born of flesh."

 

[miknik5]

That's NOT what Jesus said . . .
John 3:5
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of WATER and Spirit."

Baptism is a REBIRTH - not just a "public ritual". It is a necessity.
that's why Jesus also said:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved.

Water baptism is what saves?

 

[miknik5]

Wrong.
Read post #394 . . .

It's an outward expression of what should have occurred inwardly by GOD

The posters are both right and not Wrong

 

[miknik5]

Because Paul was warning against factions (denominations).
He didn't want people to claim that they were HIS followers because he baptized them.

Read the chapter in context instead of cherry-picking a verse or 2.

Well...that you ARE right about

Why didn't he want factions?

Because he said "did I die for you? Were any of you baptized into my name?
He understood that the people didn't even understand what they were saying in even saying I follow Paul or Cephas or Apollos

Because these were just men and they couldn't do anything.

No one can be baptized into anybody but CHRIST if CHRIST indeed baptized them

And they certainly wouldn't want to be baptized into anyone but CHRIST

 

[miknik5]

Yes - LET'S look at the last part.
First of all - Jesus says "AND":
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Being baptized is PART or "believing". It's not something separate.

Who baptizes us?

 

[miknik5]

I agree... I just generally add that if we turn our heart toward Him and we get hit by a bus before we can get anything else done... I am positive we are saved. God is not looking for reasons to condemn us, He sent His son to save us. And since salvation is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a heart issue... I am certain about what I just shared.

I enjoyed this insight when it was given to me. The "sweet aroma" that went up from a burning sacrifice and that pleased the Lord... was NOT the smell of the burning flesh. God doesn't want animals killed, and He certainly isn't turned to joy when our sins cause the death and barbecue of an animal He created. The sweet aroma was when one would bring a sacrifice with a broken and contrite heart BECAUSE their actions were the cause for the death of the animal. I sinned, I have to offer the animal, my heart breaks because my actions caused that death and that heart condition was what went up as a please aroma before the Lord.

God sees HIS SON.
All who believe are covered In CHRIST

to GOD we are the aroma of CHRIST

 

[miknik5]

Because Paul was warning against factions (denominations).
He didn't want people to claim that they were HIS followers because he baptized them.

Read the chapter in context instead of cherry-picking a verse or 2.

By the way the people were claiming they were Paul (and Cephas and Apollos) followers and paul clearly shows that he didn't baptize them. They didn't u sweats d and his mentioning of baptism was to remind them
Who they were baptized into
By what they were doing they were clearly showing that they did not understand the spiritual significance of baptism.

That they are (supposed to be) baptized into CHRIST following and learning of HIM

That Paul Cephas and Apollos are simply men by which they had heard THE GOSPEL of their salvation which is in CHRIST who leads us by HIS SPIRIT

Not Paul
Not Cephas
Not Apollos

 

[JohnKing67]

I agree... I just generally add that if we turn our heart toward Him and we get hit by a bus before we can get anything else done... I am positive we are saved.

If you're positive we are saved if we happen to get hit by a bus before we get baptized then to me that would mean we don't need baptism to be saved.

 

[scottyp588]

If you're positive we are saved if we happen to get hit by a bus before we get baptized then to me that would mean we don't need baptism to be saved.

By George, I think he's got it!

 

[JohnKing67]

By George, I think he's got it!

I know, I'm stating the obvious there, right?

 

[scottyp588]

I know, I'm stating the obvious there, right?

Haha. Gave me a little chuckle.

 

[Ken Rank]

God sees HIS SON.
All who believe are covered In CHRIST

to GOD we are the aroma of CHRIST

OK