Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[JackRT]

Water baptism is a public ritual confirming and celebrating something that has already taken place.

 

[miknik5]

Is a little of HIS GRACE sufficient?

Can we build up our stature in CHRIST JESUS

If one is baptized ( by GOD) into CHRIST and born of HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT, have they received "enough grace" to know that they are saved?

 

[miknik5]

I'm so glad that 1 John 2:27 is TRUTH

 

[miknik5]

By the way...that's EXACTLY what "our work" is


To ABIDE(REMAIN) IN HIM

...knowing and understanding that HIS GRACE is sufficient

 

[miknik5]

The eunuch and jailer were not baptized for no reason or not taught about baptism.

Phillip taught "Jesus" and Paul spoke the "word of the Lord" and immediately afterwards they were baptized Therefore it is no coincidence they were baptized. From Christ's great commission (Mat 28:19,20; Mark 16:15-16) baptism is how disciples are made. Also, the disciples in the great commission were told to teach new disciples to " to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" which includes baptism which Christ commanded. If Paul and Phillip did not teach baptism then they failed at what the Lord told them to do in the great commission.



What Peter says certainly is relevant. I gave ample verse fro the bible that prove belief includes baptism and you did not refute any of them but try to brush them off as not relevant.


Again, Christ NEVER taught belief only and neither did His disciples including Paul and Peter.

The eunuch was indeed water baptized and asked Phillip to be water baptized

As to the jailer, I don't remember that even mentioned in THE WORD

(And we are certainly NOT to add to the NT scriptures)

Ones faith is supposed to be based on the NT gospel (THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST)

...with no additions , no alterations to it

 

[miknik5]

Believe John 8:24
Repent Luke 13:3
confess Matt 10:32-33
be baptized Mk 16:16

Paul told the Ephesians "Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is." How does one understand what the will of the Lord is? "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" Eph 3:4. Reading the word of God gives me understanding as to what the will of the Father is.

The will of GOD againnis mentioned clearly in John 6 (the same scriptures where CHRIST tells all who supposedly made an outward confession of belief in HIM that they must "eat" of HIM)

As you may remember from John 6, HE already knew those who did not believe

 

[Der Alte]

The eunuch and jailer were not baptized for no reason or not taught about baptism.
Phillip taught "Jesus" and Paul spoke the "word of the Lord" and immediately afterwards they were baptized Therefore it is no coincidence they were baptized.

The eunuch and the jailer and his family were indeed baptized but there is no scriptural record that Philip or Paul told their converts that baptism was required for salvation.
Since we modern Christians make such a fuss about there being no salvation without baptism it seems strange that neither Philip nor Paul said that to their converts in the vss. cited.

From Christ's great commission (Mat 28:19,20; Mark 16:15-16) baptism is how disciples are made. Also, the disciples in the great commission were told to teach new disciples to " to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" which includes baptism which Christ commanded. If Paul and Phillip did not teach baptism then they failed at what the Lord told them to do in the great commission.

There is no question about what Jesus taught in Matt and Mk. The disciples were assuredly commanded to "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:" But those verses do not say "Teaching them that baptism is required for salvation." And there is no record that the eunuch and the jailer knew of those verses.
.....Modern Christians have isolated all the NT verses pertaining to baptism and built, in their minds, a rock solid case for baptismal generation. Unfortunately for this argument none of the persons who were baptized in the NT had the letters that list those verses.

What Peter says certainly is relevant. I gave ample verse fro the bible that prove belief includes baptism and you did not refute any of them but try to brush them off as not relevant.

Please refrain from misrepresenting what I say. Of course, Peter's writings are relevant and important for modern day Christians but if the eunuch and the jailer could not possibly have had access to those writings they are not relevant to the discussion of the baptism of those two individual. Nor are they relevant to the discussion of others baptized in Acts e.g.; Lydia, Acts 16:15; Crispus, Acts 18:8; disciples at Ephesus, Acts 19:5.

Again, Christ NEVER taught belief only and neither did His disciples including Paul and Peter.

Then please show me verses which say baptism is required for salvation? I don't mean a few isolated verses that, when put together irrespective of their individual context, you infer that they mean baptism is required for salvation.

 

[ldelporte]

I used to struggle with the same Question. I was raised to believe that you do not need to be baptized in order to receive salvation. I was told that essentially it is an "outward sign of an inward grace."

Then one day, some friends asked me to study the Bible with them and we examined what the Bible has to say about it.

From what I've read, the Bible seems pretty clear on the matter, and you DO need to be baptized.

Now, certainly some will try and make logical arguments against that by using a bunch of "what if..." scenarios. Some might even use scripture in an effort to support the idea that you don't need to be baptized.

But here's the thing about scripture... context is everything!

If someone quotes a passage of scripture (say, Romans 10:9 for instance)... Sure, at face value it seems that all that is necessary for salvation is to confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart. But what is the context? Who is he talking to? Hint: He's talking to saved people in the Roman church. Why would he be telling the Roman believers how to be saved? Doesn't it stand to reason that they are already aware of the plan of salvation? After all, Paul refers to those in the church in Rome as "Brothers and Sisters" and says much more to make it clear to readers today that he is talking to people who have already been united with Christ.

Not enough? Even within the same letter he makes a statement that can be used as what is probably one of the most convincing arguments in favor of water baptism.

Romans 6:3-4 NIV
"Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

Go ahead and dissect that one. Examine it carefully.

He is talking to believers and reminding them of what took place in their baptism. What took place then? It says they were baptized into Jesus' death. Then it says "in order that..." In order that what? Well... "in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

Based on that scripture alone, it seems quite evident that baptism is necessary to live a new life in in Christ.

Here's a bonus scripture on the matter referring to baptism and how it relates to Noah's ark. Or rather, how Noah's ark relates to baptism...

1 Peter 3:21-22
"... to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also - not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him."

The waters of the flood saved Noah from the sinfulness of the world. Only a few were saved (sound familiar?). And what does Peter says the water of the flood symbolizes? BAPTISM! not the other way around. And what does Peter say that Baptism does? "Baptism that now saves you also!"

He even emphasizes how baptism isn't just taking a bath and removing dirt, but something that gives you a clear conscience toward God. Again he tells us that "It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

And then you have the Great Commission in Matthew 28 when Jesus tells his disciples to go and make more disciples and baptize them and teach them everything he commanded them. If baptism was just some insignificant teaching of Christ, why didn't he just lump it in with "teach them everything else I have commanded you." ?

That's what I have off the top of my head. Actually, I could say more, but I think I've said enough specifics. I'd encourage anyone with doubts on this teaching to examine the scripture yourselves (honestly) and find the truth.

Acts 17:11
"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

Be of noble character. Don't rely on your preconceived notions. Examine scripture.

One thing I did when I was going through this question for myself... I did a search of the Bible for "bapt." That way I could find all passages about "Baptism, Baptizing, Baptized, etc." I looked at every passage (in context) and the answer became abundantly clear that I needed to be baptized.

Even if someone, after reading all of this and reading all the scriptures still has doubts about it... Jesus still commands it. To willfully ignore his command on baptism is deliberate disobedience towards Jesus/God. Not exactly the sort of thing a true believer would do, right? No matter how you slice it, baptism is necessary. At the very least, it needs to be our urgent intention as believers... otherwise we aren't really believing Jesus' words, are we?

Okay... one final point... Inevitably someone will point out the thief on the cross who Jesus specifically gave forgiveness to. It should be noted that Jesus had the "authority on earth to forgive sins." (Matthew 9:6). So, if Jesus himself comes and verbally tells you that you are saved and do not need baptism, GREAT! Until then, you'll probably want to be baptized.

 

[JackRT]

Historically Christian churches have recognized three forms of baptism:
1. traditional water baptism
2. baptism of blood --- this would be a person who desired to be baptized but was martyred for his/her faith before baptism could take place. This would include the "good thief".
3. baptism of desire --- similar to the above but the person dies rather than being martyred.

 

[miknik5]

Historically Christian churches have recognized three forms of baptism:
1. traditional water baptism
2. baptism of blood --- this would be a person who desired to be baptized but was martyred for his/her faith before baptism could take place. This would include the "good thief".
3. baptism of desire --- similar to the above but the person dies rather than being martyred.

All three received "baptism" because of one thing... their inner testimony and witness of THE TRUTH of JESUS CHRIST

They professed their faith and belief in HIM

 

[ShiloP]

Where did this come from?? He is not talking about works, or anything of the sort. The OP asked strictly about is water baptism necessary, and the answer is yes.

The Bible clearly states that we are to be baptized and "born again" in water and spirit.

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

The gospel indicates that salvation is by faith apart from works.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Rom 4:4-6
"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"

Baptism is for those who have been saved through faith and consequently are eternally secure in trusting in Christ rather in their own performance. Water baptism, being a work, is something the saved engage in to publicly identify themselves and to pledge a good conscience towards God.

I take it that those who put their faith in water baptism to save them are not putting their faith in Christ in the sense spoken of above.

John 3. Unless a man is born again from the water and the spirit..." If it wasn't important it would not be in the bible.

The gospel indicates that salvation is by faith apart from works.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Rom 4:4-6
"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"

Baptism is for those who have been saved through faith and consequently are eternally secure in trusting in Christ rather in their own performance. Water baptism, being a work, is something the saved engage in to publicly identify themselves and to pledge a good conscience towards God.

I take it that those who put their faith in water baptism to save them are not putting their faith in Christ in the sense spoken of above.

I think the question is not is this necessary but does my Lord want me to do this?

 

[Ken Rank]

It's clear how to put on Christ, the wedding garment necessary to be part of the Kingdom of God, the wedding. Baptism is how you put on Christ and live IN HIM. Galatians 3:22

Christ commanded us to be baptized; and, to not be baptized is to disobey God. People who say baptism is not necessary have been misled. Preachers who teach baptism is unnecessary are unsure. If they were sure, then they wouldn't have a baptismal in the church and would skip baptism themselves.

God's word and gospel is clear: believe, repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will know that you are saved. If you skipped what Jesus told you to do or didn't believe it, would you know? No, you wouldn't be sure and you would be disobedient to the Lord Jesus Christ.

I agree... I just generally add that if we turn our heart toward Him and we get hit by a bus before we can get anything else done... I am positive we are saved. God is not looking for reasons to condemn us, He sent His son to save us. And since salvation is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a heart issue... I am certain about what I just shared.

I enjoyed this insight when it was given to me. The "sweet aroma" that went up from a burning sacrifice and that pleased the Lord... was NOT the smell of the burning flesh. God doesn't want animals killed, and He certainly isn't turned to joy when our sins cause the death and barbecue of an animal He created. The sweet aroma was when one would bring a sacrifice with a broken and contrite heart BECAUSE their actions were the cause for the death of the animal. I sinned, I have to offer the animal, my heart breaks because my actions caused that death and that heart condition was what went up as a please aroma before the Lord.

 

[scottyp588]

why not? It helps if you explain your stance you know?

It's an outward expression of an inward change. Not a requirement.

 

[MarysSon]

Water baptism is a public ritual confirming and celebrating something that has already taken place.

That's NOT what Jesus said . . .
John 3:5
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of WATER and Spirit."

Baptism is a REBIRTH - not just a "public ritual". It is a necessity.
that's why Jesus also said:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved.

 

[MarysSon]

It's an outward expression of an inward change. Not a requirement.

Wrong.
Read post #394 . . .

 

[JohnKing67]

Then please show me verses which say baptism is required for salvation? I don't mean a few isolated verses that, when put together irrespective of their individual context, you infer that they mean baptism is required for salvation.

I agree. Also if baptism were so important to salvation why would Paul say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)?

Wouldn't Paul want to baptize if it were necessary for salvation?

 

[MarysSon]

I agree. Also if baptism were so important to salvation why would Paul say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)?

Because Paul was warning against factions (denominations).
He didn't want people to claim that they were HIS followers because he baptized them.

Read the chapter in context instead of cherry-picking a verse or 2.

 

[scottyp588]

"Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace. As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:25, 26; Ezk.44:7, 9) baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21; Titus
3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Romans 6:4; Col. 2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).


One last thought: If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ? If the answer is yes, then that person would be in terrible risk of not being saved. If the answer is no, then why is baptism maintained as being necessary the same way as the Jews maintained that works were necessary?"

-Matt Slick

Check it out.

 

[MarysSon]

"Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace. As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:25, 26; Ezk.44:7, 9) baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21; Titus
3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Romans 6:4; Col. 2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).

One last thought: If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ? If the answer is yes, then that person would be in terrible risk of not being saved. If the answer is no, then why is baptism maintained as being necessary the same way as the Jews maintained that works were necessary?"

-Matt Slick
Check it out.

As usual - Matt Slick is rejecting the words of Jesus himself (John 3:5, Mark 16:16).

 

[JohnKing67]

Because Paul was warning against factions (denominations).

If you're going to accuse me of cherry-picking then at last have a scripture to back up your argument.