Loving the Unelect

[ToBeLoved]

We are told in Jerimiah that with this fleshy heart that G-d Wil write upon it his LAW and as well in our minds.

You apparently sever a god who changes. The G-d of the Bible says that he does not change.

mal 3:6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Hew 13:8 Yeshua HaMeshiach is the same yesterday and today and forever.

God does not change, however covenants changed.
How do you relate this verse back?

11 Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (upon which basis the people received the Law), why was there still a need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, a tribe as to which Moses said nothing about priests. 15And this point is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears,

It would be nice at some point to see a complete picture of what you believe and how these other verses are allocated for in your beliefs.

 

[Thursday]

....so hitler was alive in Christ? yes or no?

Absolutely, as are all men. However, he rejected the call to serve God and chose his own selfish path.

I don't recommend it.

He could have been intended here:

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

Or here:

2 Tim 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;

 

[BukiRob]

???? What does this have to do with anything.

You are getting desperate.

You apparently do not even know what it is you believe.

Unlike you, me and all of mankind G-d DOES NOT CHANGE. That which was true 5,000 years ago is true TODAY.

The OT declares that the commandments are HOLY
Paul in Romans tells us they are Holy
We are called to be HOLY.

So how is it that one can ignore the Torah and yet claim to be walking in holiness?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You apparently do not even know what it is you believe.

Unlike you, me and all of mankind G-d DOES NOT CHANGE. That which was true 5,000 years ago is true TODAY.

The OT declares that the commandments are HOLY
Paul in Romans tells us they are Holy
We are called to be HOLY.

So how is it that one can ignore the Torah and yet claim to be walking in holiness?

Something being Holy does not mean that it saves.

You said earlier that Torah is the way, the truth and the life.

So how does Torah save and scripture that shows that Moses was saved by Torah?

 

[Thursday]

You apparently do not even know what it is you believe.

Unlike you, me and all of mankind G-d DOES NOT CHANGE. That which was true 5,000 years ago is true TODAY.

The OT declares that the commandments are HOLY
Paul in Romans tells us they are Holy
We are called to be HOLY.

So how is it that one can ignore the Torah and yet claim to be walking in holiness?

More unrelated filibuster that has nothing to do with our debate. You forgot to mention that God created the heavens and the earth, by the way!

 

[BukiRob]

God does not change, however covenants changed.
How do you relate this verse back?

11 Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (upon which basis the people received the Law), why was there still a need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.

The flaw in your thinking is that the Covenant that was made in the OT did not change or rather it was progressive.... IT WAS.

The covenant did change Yeshua replaced the levitate priesthood becoming our high priest.

Yeshua replaced the sin offering of an animal with the eternally acceptable sin offering of HIS blood.

None of these invalidate the standard of morality shewn in the Torah.

I have yet to see a single person refute what Messiah himself said about the Torah.

DO NOT THINK that I have come to abolish the law or prophets.....

Got news for you he WASNT speaking to the JEWS.....

 

[BukiRob]

Something being Holy does not mean that it saves.

You said earlier that Torah is the way, the truth and the life.

So how does Torah save and scripture that shows that Moses was saved by Torah?

The Torah become FLESH is what saves...

Now your just being intellectually dishonest

 

[BukiRob]

More unrelated filibuster that has nothing to do with our debate. You forgot to mention that God created the heavens and the earth, by the way!

No you have run out of things to counter so all you are doing is engaging in misdirection and subterfuge

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Absolutely, as are all men. However, he rejected the call to serve God and chose his own selfish path.

I don't recommend it.

He could have been intended here:

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

Or here:

2 Tim 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;

it is simply not possible for hitler, or anyone like him, to have had his stony heart removed by God and replaced with a heart of flesh and to afterward live the life that he lived. the result of the heart transplant in Ezekiel 36:26-28 is that we then walk in His ways and do them, which hitler obviously did not and never repented of.

all of the verses you have quoted are actually taken out of context.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Torah become FLESH is what saves...

Now your just being intellectually dishonest

Not at all.

You said that the Torah is THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE.

Now, those are Messiah's qualities.

Now you are changing your answer. I am trying to understand.

 

[kangaroodort]

For me, your question is based on a erroneous view of Biblical election. That is a good question in light of the Calvinist view of unconditional election, but there are better ways (in my opinion) to understand election that wouldn't lead to such a question in the first place. For me, the corporate election view best comports with all that Scripture has to say on election, and that view does not see election as unconditional, but conditional. If you want to get a good handle on that view, here is a good place to start:

Corporate Election Quotes

Within this post are links to the works the quotes come from. Some are books, but many are articles by Dr. Brian Abasciano who I believe gives the best articulation of the view. Dr. Abasciano is a serious and well respected Biblical scholar who has written two volumes on Romans 9 (covering verse 1-18) and is currently working on the last volume of that series now (covering the rest of the chapter). That is three volumes of high caliber scholarship and exegesis on Romans 9! You can read his dissertation on Romans 9:1-9 free online which is a fuller version of his first book (the book is a shorter edited version of his dissertation).

Hope that helps.

 

[Jim Langston]

That is in direct conflict with scripture.

Quote me the scripture and I will show you where you are mistaken.

 

[Thursday]

No you have run out of things to counter so all you are doing is engaging in misdirection and subterfuge

You are off on a wild tangent!! Too funny.

The truth is that there is a difference between adherence to the Jewish Law and obedience to Jesus. For example, Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, when his men were collecting wheat on the Sabbath.

Circumcision is part of the Jewish Law, it was commanded by God. Now Paul says is doesn't matter. Do you believe him?

He also said that a man will reap what he sows. Do you believe him?

 

[Thursday]

it is simply not possible for hitler, or anyone like him, to have had his stony heart removed by God and replaced with a heart of flesh and to afterward live the life that he lived. the result of the heart transplant in Ezekiel 36:26-28 is that we then walk in His ways and do them, which hitler obviously did not and never repented of.

all of the verses you have quoted are actually taken out of context.

Anyone can reject Christ and turn to a life of evil. Sin can shipwreck our faith.

We will be judged for our actions. Jesus died for all mankind, each and every one of us.

He has enabled us to please God, but he doesn't force us to.

 

[Victor E.]

Not even Paul claimed to know his eternal destiny. Read. Phil 3.
We should have confidence, not presumption.

An example of Christ's humility and the Fear of the LORD.

"5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,

did not consider equality with God something to cling to,

7but emptied Himself,

taking the form of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—

even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place,

and gave Him the name above all names,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 5:2

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Anyone can reject Christ and turn to a life of evil. Sin can shipwreck our faith.

We will be judged for our actions. Jesus died for all mankind, each and every one of us.

He has enabled us to please God, but he doesn't force us to.

anyone who has had a heart transplant as stated in ezekiel 36:26-28 will not reject Christ and turn to a life of evil.

Jesus died for those who would believe in him(john 3:16). hitler didn't believe in Jesus as evidenced by his actions.

where does it say that Jesus died for everyone?

 

[Thursday]

anyone who has had a heart transplant as stated in ezekiel 36:26-28 will not reject Christ.

Jesus died for those who would believe in him(john 3:16). hitler didn't believe in Jesus as evidenced by his actions.

where does it say that Jesus died for everyone?

Hmmm.....

1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[Jim Langston]

anyone who has had a heart transplant as stated in ezekiel 36:26-28 will not reject Christ and turn to a life of evil.

Jesus died for those who would believe in him(john 3:16). hitler didn't believe in Jesus as evidenced by his actions.

where does it say that Jesus died for everyone?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

It only becomes not everyone when you add the doctrine of men. Whosoever, anyone that believes in Him (and if you believe in Him you will follow his commandments).

Calvanists claim whosoever only means the Elect. That's not what it says.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Hmmm.....

1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

as expected,

1tim4:10 is merely reiterating acts 4:12 in stating man cannot be saved any other way besides through Christ but that those who actually believe will be the ones that recieve salvation.

the term 'world' refers to all kinds of people. revelation 5:9 states Jesus saving people from every tribe tongue people and nation. it doesn't refer to every single human being.

every single human being wasn't going after Jesus in john 12:19

you aren't a universalist are you?


off to work

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that [bold]whosoever[/bold] believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

it doesn't say he will save everyone in that verse. it says he will save those who believe.

now we need to figure how someone comes to believe. ezekiel 36:26-28 tells us how and it's work of God upon the sinner.