5 Challenges to Trump's Wall

[Armoured]

Many people own land on both sides of the border.

IIRC, there's an American golf course that straddles the border. Maybe they could dig machine gun pits into the sand traps and make the back 9 really interesting?

edit:Fence Protecting Border Puts Course Out of Business

 

[Armoured]

Would such a person use violence though, or refuse to stop when asked?

Probably not. But that's not what "shoot on sight" means.

 

[blackribbon]

Many people own land on both sides of the border.

Only Mexican citizens can own land in Mexico. I guess, maybe they own land in the US too?

But I don't agree with just shooting someone blindly.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Not just eminent domain either - straight up violation of treaties and Native American sovereignty along 75 miles of the border that belong to a native American tribe.

That would be the Tohono O’odham Nation, the Cocopah Tribe, the Kumeyaay Nation, and the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo.

President Trump ignores tribes in executive order on US-Mexico border wall

Also, read this article: AZ Indian Tribe That Controls 75 Miles of Border Won’t Allow TRUMP WALL on their Land (VIDEO)

 

[camille70]

 

[GondwanaLand]

Would such a person use violence though, or refuse to stop when asked?

Who said anything about using violence or not stopping when asked? Sounds like you're back pedalling. Oh and I'd say most ranchers and such down there likely have guns, so......

 

[blackribbon]

Weren't you talking about trawling the schools a minute ago?

Schools don't require proof of citizenship. In fact, illegals get enrolled with less paperwork than citizens. Citizenship isn't a requirement to attend government schools. However, the birth certificate is required to play league baseball...they probably take Mexican ones though because they are proving age, not citizenship.

 

[GondwanaLand]

That would be the Tohono O’odham Nation, the Cocopah Tribe, the Kumeyaay Nation, and the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo.

President Trump ignores tribes in executive order on US-Mexico border wall

Also, read this article: AZ Indian Tribe That Controls 75 Miles of Border Won’t Allow TRUMP WALL on their Land (VIDEO)

Yup. That's the article I'd seen.

 

[Armoured]

Schools don't require proof of citizenship. In fact, illegals get enrolled with less paperwork than citizens. Citizenship isn't a requirement to attend government schools. However, the birth certificate is required to play league baseball...they probably take Mexican ones though because they are proving age, not citizenship.

So are you suggesting cops should target schools for illegal immigrant checks or not? Just so I understand your position?

 

[blackribbon]

Who said anything about using violence or not stopping when asked? Sounds like you're back pedalling. Oh and I'd say most ranchers and such down there likely have guns, so......

I'd say most likely ALL ranchers have guns. You need them to protect your livestock from wildlife and to be able to put an injured animal down rather than let them suffer.

 

[GondwanaLand]

Only Mexican citizens can own land in Mexico. I guess, maybe they own land in the US too?

But I don't agree with just shooting someone blindly.

Ahem: Mexonline.com guide to Buying Property in Mexico - Real Estate

 

[roamer_1]

Let's not underestimate the desperation of a refugee/cartel mule.

I am not underestimating.

Besides, the harder to cross, the harder to patrol... therefore, the more desirable to cross.

False. At least in mountains. Observation points control vast areas, and since the terrain is nearly impassable, spotted offenders can be predicted and intercepted with ease.

If there was ever a legitimate use of eminent domain, don't expect American people to accept it... least of all in Texas.

Considering that border ranches are overrun with illegal aliens, and assaulted by drug gangs, stopping the problem is probably foremost on their minds. And it doesn't matter. private land or not, inevitably there is right of way. I don't even think it is an eminent domain issue.

As are solutions to the solutions... again, rivers flood, mountains crumble...

nah. 90% of construction is going to be on top of road bed - The road needs to be there to afford patrol and repair. roads themselves run along rivers all the time. riprap or concrete padding effectively prevent washout. And the mountain roads up here in GNP were just recently rebuilt, after some hundred years of heavy use. And I'm talking real mountains, and white water, not the podunk hills down there, and the piddly little Rio Grande.

Are we going with the "unfettered passage" narrative?

Indeed. It is all but unfettered passage now.

Including our own.

So what?

Some get through -- some will always get through -- but many more get caught.

no, they don't.

"Brutal..." not a word usually encouraged when it comes to law enforcement...

It isn't law enforcement. It is border protection. That falls under military aegis. Military protocol. We may treat it as law enforcement, but it is legitimately a military jurisdiction. The only in-country military jurisdiction.
And if it was treated as a militarized zone, we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[blackribbon]

So are you suggesting cops should target schools for illegal immigrant checks or not? Just so I understand your position?

The poster made it sound like finding illegal immigrants was hard to do. They are easy enough to find through their children in the public schools. Should we be paying to educate non-legal non-citizens? Does citizenship mean anything anymore? Doesn't promising them free school if they can just get their babies here kind of encourage them to risk the lives of those same children?

 

[blackribbon]

Ahem: Mexonline.com guide to Buying Property in Mexico - Real Estate

I don't know that I'd consider it really owning land if I wasn't legally allowed to enter into a contract to buy it. Sounds kind of iffy to me. Anyway, my sister's husband has never become naturalized even though he has spent most of his life living in Texas because he wants to be able to inherit his family's property. I was told by them that only Mexican citizens can own property.

 

[Armoured]

The poster made it sound like finding illegal immigrants was hard to do. They are easy enough to find through their children in the public schools. Should we be paying to educate non-legal non-citizens? Does citizenship mean anything anymore? Doesn't promising them free school if they can just get their babies here kind of encourage them to risk the lives of those same children?

How do you tell which kids are the kids of illegal immigrants, exactly?

I'm not arguing in favour of illegal immigrants at all. But that doesn't make my practical objections to the proposals I'm seeing any less legitimate.

 

[roamer_1]

Not just eminent domain either - straight up violation of treaties and Native American sovereignty along 75 miles of the border that belong to a native American tribe.

I can't believe this nonsense. The US government has right of way along the border, established by Roosevelt, I think.

 

[GondwanaLand]

I can't believe this nonsense. The US government has right of way along the border, established by Roosevelt, I think.

Not when it comes to sovereign Native American land. But hey we can continue our slide back into the 18th century under this president and just steal some more land from them darned Injuns, eh?

 

[roamer_1]

The Roosevelt Reservation is a 60-foot (18 m) strip of land on the United States side of the United States-Mexico Border under the jurisdiction of the United States Federal Government. It was established in a 1907 Presidential Proclamation (35 Stat. 2136) by Theodore Roosevelt in order to keep the land "free from obstruction as a protection against the smuggling of goods between the United States and Mexico".[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_Reservation

 

[roamer_1]

Not when it comes to sovereign Native American land. But hey we can continue our slide back into the 18th century under this president and just steal some more land from them darned Injuns, eh?

YES, it does include reservations. The sovereignty of native reservations is not even equal to states, and certainly does not trump the international border.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Not when it comes to sovereign Native American land. But hey we can continue our slide back into the 18th century under this president and just steal some more land from them darned Injuns, eh?

The United States government has been violating the constitution since the very beginning. According to Article VI of the United States Constitution: "all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land" but the US government has violated the hundreds of treaties it signed with the Indian Nations.