5 Challenges to Trump's Wall

[dogs4thewin]

Do you think anything illegal warrants being shot on sight?

If they are trying to use violence and refuse to stop when told yes. That would cut down on people trying to do it, as well.

 

[Armoured]

The cost of protecting the border is far, far cheaper than allowing unfettered passage, as we already know.

And you have supportable figures to support this claim, of course?

 

[dogs4thewin]

It's not safe swimming in any river -- they're not swimming pools.

We're talking about people who've already trekked hundreds of miles through very harsh, unforgiving wilderness -- mostly desert. They're not going to stop at a river; flooded or not.

Besides, flood waters always recede, and they can cross before the patrols return or fences are repaired.

How long does it take the water to go down? It is not a slow process.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wouldn't lack of citizenship or legal visa be proof that you broke the law?

You mean lack of possession of such paperwork? Not at all.

I don't carry my Birth Certificate in my wallet... do you?

And it isn't assumed that I have a driver's license...I have to provide the proof when asked. So proof of birth certificate, Visa, passport, etc...isn't really a big request.

Again, do you carry these things on you? No?

So when they claim, "oh, right, my Birth Certificate is on file at City Hall... what, you can't find it? Well, that's your problem, isn't it?" What's the response?

 

[Armoured]

If they are trying to use violence and refuse to stop when told yes.

That isn't what "shoot on sight" means.

That would cut down on people trying to do it, as well.

So would executing shoplifting children, presumably. That doesn't make it a proportional response.

 

[blackribbon]

Worse, since posse comitatus prohibits the military from domestic law enforcement, the job of "shoot on sight" and planting the mines will fall on state/federal law enforcement. How well is that going to go over? "Blue Lives Matter; Brown Ones Don't."

A correct analogy would be "Blue lives matter: Criminals lives don't"

....

 

[TLK Valentine]

How long does it take the water to go down? It is not a slow process.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I'm not going to be the one watching and waiting on the other side... they are.

 

[Armoured]

So when they claim, "oh, right, my Birth Certificate is on file at City Hall... what, you can't find it? Well, that's your problem, isn't it?" What's the response?

Summary execution, apparently. This thread's a real eye opener.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That isn't what "shoot on sight" means.
So would executing shoplifting children, presumably. That doesn't make it a proportional response.

You would only shoot people doing so if they were trying to use violences shoplifting in and of itself is a non-violent crime.

 

[Armoured]

A correct analogy would be "Blue lives matter: Criminals lives don't"

....

And that sounds OK to you?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But I'm not going to be the one watching and waiting on the other side... they are.

no

 

[Armoured]

You would only shoot people doing so if they were trying to use violences shoplifting in and of itself is a non-violent crime.

You're the one who advocated shoot on sight, not "shoot in self defence".

 

[dogs4thewin]

You're the one who advocated shoot on sight, not "shoot in self defence".

If they threaten violence and will not stop.

 

[Armoured]

If they threaten violence and will not stop.

That's not what you said. You said, and I quote, "shoot if caught".

 

[TLK Valentine]

TRUE. But the rougher the terrain, the less likely the crossing, and what crossing there is would be naturally funneled to hot spots - Mountainous terrain is an effective barrier, naturally funneling traffic into defensible canyons and valleys. Where water is scarce, traffic is predicted and limited by watering holes...

Let's not underestimate the desperation of a refugee/cartel mule. Besides, the harder to cross, the harder to patrol... therefore, the more desirable to cross.

If there was ever a legitimate use of eminent domain, border protection would be it. And normally, the US retains right-of-way (according to my experience on the Northern border)

If there was ever a legitimate use of eminent domain, don't expect American people to accept it... least of all in Texas.

FALSE. Most borders follow natural geography. Most countries create barriers on their borders. Fences along rivers are nothing new at all. Solutions are already well known.

As are solutions to the solutions... again, rivers flood, mountains crumble...

TRUE, but expected. All borders are garrisoned. The cost of protecting the border is far, far cheaper than allowing unfettered passage, as we already know.

Are we going with the "unfettered passage" narrative?

TRUE, but expected. Criminals are always as such. desperate or bad, or both. That's what makes them criminals. Every other border on the planet faces the same sort of problems, and are effectively managed.

Including our own.

Some get through -- some will always get through -- but many more get caught.

What makes our southern border unique is many generations of tradition wherein criminals expect to be able to break the law with impunity, creating an uncontrollable (unstoppable) force. Such a force requires an immovable object, and a big hammer.

Once a workable solution is established, and a period of brutal enforcement ensues, the impossibility creates impasse, and the pressure on the border will diminish dramatically.

"Brutal..." not a word usually encouraged when it comes to law enforcement...

 

[dogs4thewin]

That's not what you said. You said, and I quote, "shoot if caught".

that may not be the best idea.

 

[blackribbon]

You mean lack of possession of such paperwork? Not at all.

I don't carry my Birth Certificate in my wallet... do you?




Again, do you carry these things on you? No?

So when they claim, "oh, right, my Birth Certificate is on file at City Hall... what, you can't find it? Well, that's your problem, isn't it?" What's the response?

I actually could produce my birth certificate and passport if allowed to travel home...so yes, I would be able to produce them to a court of law on the same day with no problem. I do carry my driver's license. I often have my passport card in my wallet too. You are supposed to have a copy of your birth certificate, social security card (official one), car registration...and always carry your driver's license if driving. These are normal legal documents for a citizen to have in their possession.

(My passport card proves my citizenship without providing a birth certificate)

 

[Armoured]

that may not be the best idea.

A human rights atrocity is what i would be.Take all the time to contemplate it you need.

 

[roamer_1]

And you have supportable figures to support this claim, of course?

You could support ten divisions on that border and still not even touch the cost that drugs put upon this country. Not to mention welfare and education costs currently going to illegal aliens, and also not figuring the suppressed wages and lost jobs in the entire southwest due to same. To even raise the challenge is ludicrous.

 

[Armoured]

I actually could produce my birth certificate and passport if allowed to travel home...so yes, I would be able to produce them to a court of law on the same day with no problem.

That wasn't the question, though, was it?

What happens if you're travelling and hours away from home? Should people carry their birth certificate if they plan to be more than an hour or two from home?