5 Challenges to Trump's Wall

[TLK Valentine]

Well, paroles can also be added.

Time off for good behavior? Not sure how that helps...

 

[TLK Valentine]

The way I would go about that is do not tract them down; whether if they break ANY law even what for most would be traffic infraction they could get deported.

Not a very proactive approach, is it? What about the millions who either don't break any laws (aside from entering, of course) or don't get caught?

What about the ones you do catch who say, "Oh, sure, I was born here... my birth certificate? Oh, it's at City Hall... what? you can't find it? Well, that's your problem, isn't it?"

 

[blackribbon]

I didn't meet a single starving illegal immigrant (in fact, our illegal neighbors paid $120,000 cash for the house next door)...they may have come from repressed areas but all of Mexico isn't repressed so maybe their country should be taking are of their citizens and not ours. I have multiple friends who are naturalized citizens from around the world...they weren't rich and yet they managed to follow the rules to become citizens.

 

[Bob S]

Mexican immigration to the US is at net neutral, so that problem is already solved, and Mexico spends a lot of resources keeping migrants from other countries from entering the United States. Increased cooperation between the US and Mexico is the way to solve any problems between the two nations.
Focusing on sealing the border, raising tariffs and deporting illegal immigrants will hurt the US economy, hurt domestic freedom, increase the power of the state and make the Trump administration a negative and tumultuous period in American history.

You have been watching too much MSNBC. :-(

 

[blackribbon]

Time off for good behavior? Not sure how that helps...

ah....not smart enough to recognize autocorrect...going to use that as your argument?

 

[lasthero]

The wall on the south side of California is documented to having reduced the number of illegal immigrants by 95%..so yes, I think will stop those that currently just walk in.

Documented where?

 

[LoAmmi]

I asked for statistics citing the financial feasibility of the wall, since that was your argument...not the number of people deported or how many illegals are already here. Can discuss on topic at a time?

Here's how much Trump's border wall will cost

But other estimates suggest there are enough uncertainties to drive the cost up to $15 billion, and possibly as much as $25 billion, according to a report from Bernstein Research, which tracks materials costs.

It's also important to note that none of these estimates includes the cost of acquiring the land where the wall will be built, which could also be considerable.

So, let's use the low estimate there. 15 billion dollars just to build it. Plus whatever it will cost to take land from the current owners in order to have a place to build it. Then we have routine maintenance on the wall that would have to happen or it would become (even more) useless.


Is it doable? Certainly. Is it a great solution? No.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not a very proactive approach, is it? What about the millions who either don't break any laws (aside from entering, of course) or don't get caught?

What about the ones you do catch who say, "Oh, sure, I was born here... my birth certificate? Oh, it's at City Hall... what? you can't find it? Well, that's your problem, isn't it?"

Well, we cannot catch them all, but if they KNOW that any misstep could get them deported they will either be VERY careful or not come here. As for claiming to be born here there ARE ways of checking that out. One option would be making that a defense which the ACCUSED has to prove. In other words make them prove they were born here.

 

[TLK Valentine]

ah....not smart enough to recognize autocorrect...going to use that as your argument?

Nah, just going to add a little much-needed humor to the discussion.

Besides... one time is autocorrect; more than that is a pattern.

 

[Bob S]

Here's how much Trump's border wall will cost


So, let's use the low estimate there. 15 billion dollars just to build it. Plus whatever it will cost to take land from the current owners in order to have a place to build it. Then we have routine maintenance on the wall that would have to happen or it would become (even more) useless.


Is it doable? Certainly. Is it a great solution? No.

Tell that to Israel.

 

[blackribbon]

Nah, just going to add a little much-needed humor to the discussion.

Besides... one time is autocorrect; more than that is a pattern.

correct, a pattern of your electronic device...if it changes it once, it will change it over and over again...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, we cannot catch them all, but if they KNOW that any misstep could get them deported they will either be VERY careful or not come here.

Considering what many of them ran away from, being VERY careful isn't a problem, and not coming isn't an option.

Deterrence factor: zero

As for claiming to be born here there ARE ways of checking that out. One option would be making that a defense which the ACCUSED has to prove. In other words make them prove they were born here.

We've got a thing in this country called "due process." In all crimes, the ACCUSED is presumed innocent, and the burden is on the state to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

No exceptions.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Tell that to Israel.

Do you know how much time and money Israel has spent? Do you know how much wall they got for it?

 

[LoAmmi]

Tell that to Israel.

Fence vs Wall. Fence vs Wall. FENCE vs WALL.

Israel did not build a 30 foot high concrete wall.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Considering what many of them ran away from, being VERY careful isn't a problem, and not coming isn't an option.

Deterrence factor: zero



We've got a thing in this country called "due process." In all crimes, the ACCUSED is presumed innocent, and the burden is on the state to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

No exceptions.

Actually there ARE defenses that if the accused CHOOSES to raise then it is on THEM to proof that defense.

 

[TLK Valentine]

correct, a pattern of your electronic device...if it changes it once, it will change it over and over again...

Unless you get it right at least once.

 

[Bob S]

I would love to stay and debate, but the wife tells me we have to go, too bad. :-(

 

[blackribbon]

Here's how much Trump's border wall will cost


So, let's use the low estimate there. 15 billion dollars just to build it. Plus whatever it will cost to take land from the current owners in order to have a place to build it. Then we have routine maintenance on the wall that would have to happen or it would become (even more) useless.


Is it doable? Certainly. Is it a great solution? No.

How much do we annually spend on supporting, putting illegals through the criminal justice system, and related crime? As for the borders, I suspect that like on public waterways, the US already owns a certain amount of footage from the border in so, no that isn't likely an expense.

 

[blackribbon]

Unless you get it right at least once.

your device is better than mine...I am constantly being corrected on words put in correctly the first time...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Actually there ARE defenses that if the accused CHOOSES to raise then it is on THEM to proof that defense.

Right -- those are called "affirmative defenses" -- insanity and self-defense are the prime examples.

In both those cases, the facts of the case are not in dispute... Bob did kill Joe, but Bob either wasn't in his right mind, or was defending himself.

The defense of "It wasn't me; I didn't do it; you got the wrong guy" is not an affirmative defense... and that's the defense that they're going to bring up if you accuse them of coming into the country illegally.