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diane.

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Through the viewing of this video, I hope to promote interesting dialogue. The video is 27 minutes long and is the audio recording of a lively discussion on one of Canada's leading secular radio stations, CFRB 1010 (currently newstalk1010). I am the initial voice you hear in the audio of one who speaks 'in tongues'. I would like to hear your views and what you think.
(Note: Our apologies. When initially posted, we did not realize that the video does not play in its entirety if embedded in the post. If you wish to view the video, click on "Speaking In Tongues" here. )
diane.
 
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AlexDTX

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1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

It is a very narrow definition to say a tongue has to be in a language spoken on Earth to be legitimate. Verse 14 tells us that our spirit is praying, not our mind, and verse 15 says that we are to pray in the spirit and in our understanding.

Languages are made up of two elements: 1 sounds, 2, meaning agreed upon the sound. The sound does not make the language, but the meaning agreed. Pasta is a sound that has an English meaning of noodles, but in Russian the meaning for that same sound is toothpaste. The sound is not the language, but the meaning. Therefore when our human spirits pray in tongues, the meaning is known and understood by God who understands all languages. Tongues are not prayers for people but for God. Which is why Paul reminds the Corinthians that if you pray in tongues in front of people you may as well be a barbarian speaking. If your prayer in tongues is public, then pray for interpretation so people can be edified.
 
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Ken Behrens

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I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God. It would have been nice if Mr. Oakley had asked about her Christian life.

Her tongues are thus not real. Besides, after the second sentence (using the term loosely) it was clear it was not.

A child can "play the piano", a real pianist can communicate profound human feeling by playing the piano.

I have heard, and can usually tell, real Godly tongues, this kind of human mimicking, an demonic tongues (21:30), and I can usually tell just by sound. Just like listening to an pianist. 17:38 is real.
 
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AlexDTX

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I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God. It would have been nice if Mr. Oakley had asked about her Christian life.

Her tongues are thus not real. Besides, after the second sentence (using the term loosely) it was clear it was not.

A child can "play the piano", a real pianist can communicate profound human feeling by playing the piano.

I have heard, and can usually tell, real Godly tongues, this kind of human mimicking, an demonic tongues (21:30), and I can usually tell just by sound. Just like listening to an pianist. 17:38 is real.
That is an unfounded judgment on your part. Who are you to determine whose tongue is real or not?
 
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diane.

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Thank you, AlexDTX. My thoughts exactly.
diane.
I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God. It would have been nice if Mr. Oakley had asked about her Christian life.

Her tongues are thus not real. Besides, after the second sentence (using the term loosely) it was clear it was not.

A child can "play the piano", a real pianist can communicate profound human feeling by playing the piano.

I have heard, and can usually tell, real Godly tongues, this kind of human mimicking, an demonic tongues (21:30), and I can usually tell just by sound. Just like listening to an pianist. 17:38 is real.
I thought I might just comment on your, "I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God". Praising God at any time and in all circumstances is always a good thing to do. But it is not a prerequisite to praying in the Spirit. There is no scriptural directive requiring praise before utterance in the Spirit.
diane.
 
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AlexDTX

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Thank you, AlexDTX. My thoughts exactly.
diane.

I thought I might just comment on your, "I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God". Praising God at any time and in all circumstances is always a good thing to do. But it is not a prerequisite to praying in the Spirit. There is no scriptural directive requiring praise before utterance in the Spirit.
diane.

Since it is the Spirit praying when we pray in tongues, tongues itself is praising God. We build ourselves up by praising God.

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
 
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AlexDTX

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Thank you, AlexDTX. My thoughts exactly.
diane.

I thought I might just comment on your, "I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God". Praising God at any time and in all circumstances is always a good thing to do. But it is not a prerequisite to praying in the Spirit. There is no scriptural directive requiring praise before utterance in the Spirit.
diane.
Another thought. It is my observation that those who criticize are usually those who do not speak in tongues themselves.
 
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Ken Behrens

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That is an unfounded judgment on your part. Who are you to determine whose tongue is real or not?
The OP asked what I think. I told them. I also explained why I think that, comparing to a musical performance. There is a field called sentics, which is hard science, and enables anyone, even a computer program, to analyze a recording of any sound made by a human lasting longer than a couple seconds, vocal or not, and determine to within a fair degree of certainty the underlying emotion being experienced at the time of producing the sound. There is no emotion revealed in the first example, but emotions such as are commonly experienced in prophecy and intercessory prayer in the second.
 
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Ken Behrens

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Thank you, AlexDTX. My thoughts exactly.
diane.

I thought I might just comment on your, "I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God". Praising God at any time and in all circumstances is always a good thing to do. But it is not a prerequisite to praying in the Spirit. There is no scriptural directive requiring praise before utterance in the Spirit.
diane.
You are correct. My answer is the same as to Alex. I was asked for an opinion, I gave one. Early on (like 1972), it was common advice that when you are asked to "demonstrate tongues", that you 1. decline, 2. Pray in English, which is also a language, or 3. begin with the praise of God, so that you are certain you do not let your own pride take over and begin babbling. Demonstrating is not giving an utterance in tongues for the community, nor is it private prayer in tongues, for which I find no need to begin with English praise of God. The woman on the tape was demonstrating, it was her idea, and she did not follow the old teaching that was common back then. This was part of my reaction.
 
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AlexDTX

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The OP asked what I think. I told them. I also explained why I think that, comparing to a musical performance. There is a field called sentics, which is hard science, and enables anyone, even a computer program, to analyze a recording of any sound made by a human lasting longer than a couple seconds, vocal or not, and determine to within a fair degree of certainty the underlying emotion being experienced at the time of producing the sound. There is no emotion revealed in the first example, but emotions such as are commonly experienced in prophecy and intercessory prayer in the second.
Speaking in tongues is not something that can be "scientifically" analyzed since science denies the spirit. Just because your past had a procedure does not discount the reality of her experience. What I find offensive regarding your comment is that it is similar to saying she is not a real Christian. No one knows the heart but God. Especially in a forum setting.
 
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Kiterius

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Through the viewing of this video, I hope to promote interesting dialogue. The video is 27 minutes long and is the audio recording of a lively discussion on one of Canada's leading secular radio stations. I am the voice of the one you hear in this audio who is speaking in tongues. I would like to hear your views and what you think.
diane.

What I think is that it is slightly possible that you actually were speaking in tongues.
 
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Ken Behrens

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Speaking in tongues is not something that can be "scientifically" analyzed since science denies the spirit. Just because your past had a procedure does not discount the reality of her experience. What I find offensive regarding your comment is that it is similar to saying she is not a real Christian. No one knows the heart but God. Especially in a forum setting.
Many scientists are doing work analyzing some aspects of tongues. Not all scientists deny the spirit. SPEAKING IN TONGUES: Glossia and Xenoglossia. scientific studies

Many ministries are under attack by other ministries for their praying in tongues online, some who allegedly do it as "attention grabbers". I'll put a couple links; I have seen dozens). If such a statement is tantamount to saying someone is not a Christian, then the Body of Christ has a problem. You are welcome to report my post, and let the admins judge. But I think it is clear that a person need not have tongues to be a Christian, and I think anyone can babble, Christian or not. For all I know, the woman in fact has the real gift of tongues, and was using false tongues on purpose as a prank for the call in the show.

By the way, the woman never claims to be a Christian. And the rule here is against saying that another member is not a Christian if he/she claims to be by how he identifies in his bio.

http://www.libertyadvocate.com/Swaggart's False Tongues.htm
The False Gift of Tongues | 1 Cor 12, 14 | RayStedman.org
 
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AlexDTX

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Many scientists are doing work analyzing some aspects of tongues. Not all scientists deny the spirit. SPEAKING IN TONGUES: Glossia and Xenoglossia. scientific studies

Many ministries are under attack by other ministries for their praying in tongues online, some who allegedly do it as "attention grabbers". I'll put a couple links; I have seen dozens). If such a statement is tantamount to saying someone is not a Christian, then the Body of Christ has a problem. You are welcome to report my post, and let the admins judge. But I think it is clear that a person need not have tongues to be a Christian, and I think anyone can babble, Christian or not. For all I know, the woman in fact has the real gift of tongues, and was using false tongues on purpose as a prank for the call in the show.

By the way, the woman never claims to be a Christian. And the rule here is against saying that another member is not a Christian if he/she claims to be by how he identifies in his bio.

http://www.libertyadvocate.com/Swaggart's False Tongues.htm
The False Gift of Tongues | 1 Cor 12, 14 | RayStedman.org
Do you speak in tongues?
 
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AlexDTX

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Many scientists are doing work analyzing some aspects of tongues. Not all scientists deny the spirit. SPEAKING IN TONGUES: Glossia and Xenoglossia. scientific studies
http://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues5.htm

There may be scientists who believe in the spirit studying tongues, but science is a natural mind approach that can not explore the spirit. They may be able to explore the evidence of the spirit, but not the spirit. No one knows what the spirit is. We will not understand it until we shed the physical body. And even then I wonder how much we will understand.

Many ministries are under attack by other ministries for their praying in tongues online, some who allegedly do it as "attention grabbers". I'll put a couple links; I have seen dozens). If such a statement is tantamount to saying someone is not a Christian, then the Body of Christ has a problem. You are welcome to report my post, and let the admins judge. But I think it is clear that a person need not have tongues to be a Christian, and I think anyone can babble, Christian or not. For all I know, the woman in fact has the real gift of tongues, and was using false tongues on purpose as a prank for the call in the show.

I have no intention of reporting you to the admins. And yes, speaking in tongues is not equal to being a Christian. However, that was not my point. My point is that you are making a judgement on someone's subjective experience which is like determining that someone is not a Christian when they say they are. You don't know the heart of man. And while we are encouraged to see the wolves in sheep's clothing, this woman is no wolf.

By the way, the woman never claims to be a Christian. And the rule here is against saying that another member is not a Christian if he/she claims to be by how he identifies in his bio.

Good grief. She says she is non-denominational. One does not have to say the word "Christian" to be a follower of Christ. There are some believers who think the term is tainted and do not use it. You don't know if she is a believer or not, we assume the best of people.

A person can speak single words repeatedly and it still be tongues. Corinthians tells us that when we speak in tongues our spirit prays. Who is our spirit praying to? It is understood that means God. A language, as I said earlier is meaning agreed upon sounds. The sound is not the language, but meaning ascribed to the sound is the language. When our spirits pray God listens to the spirit. Indeed, most of the time when God speaks to us He speaks to our spirits and our souls put the meaning into words we understand. Our spirit, which is no longer a created spirit with the new birth, but a quickening spirit joined unto the Lord, can change the meaning of the word each time it is spoken and God will understand.

The fear of demons speaking through believers with tongues is absurd. Perhaps a demon will speak in tongues through a satanist who does not know Jesus, but a believer is idiocy.

I still believe your judgment was uncalled for and you offended Diane by your judgment. She thanked me for standing up for her.
 
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Ken Behrens

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1. There may be scientists who believe in the spirit studying tongues, but science is a natural mind approach that can not explore the spirit. They may be able to explore the evidence of the spirit, but not the spirit. No one knows what the spirit is. We will not understand it until we shed the physical body. And even then I wonder how much we will understand.



2. I have no intention of reporting you to the admins. And yes, speaking in tongues is not equal to being a Christian. However, that was not my point. My point is that you are making a judgement on someone's subjective experience which is like determining that someone is not a Christian when they say they are. You don't know the heart of man. And while we are encouraged to see the wolves in sheep's clothing, this woman is no wolf.



3. Good grief. She says she is non-denominational. One does not have to say the word "Christian" to be a follower of Christ. There are some believers who think the term is tainted and do not use it. You don't know if she is a believer or not, we assume the best of people.

4. A person can speak single words repeatedly and it still be tongues. Corinthians tells us that when we speak in tongues our spirit prays. Who is our spirit praying to? It is understood that means God. A language, as I said earlier is meaning agreed upon sounds. The sound is not the language, but meaning ascribed to the sound is the language. When our spirits pray God listens to the spirit. Indeed, most of the time when God speaks to us He speaks to our spirits and our souls put the meaning into words we understand. Our spirit, which is no longer a created spirit with the new birth, but a quickening spirit joined unto the Lord, can change the meaning of the word each time it is spoken and God will understand.

5. The fear of demons speaking through believers with tongues is absurd. Perhaps a demon will speak in tongues through a satanist who does not know Jesus, but a believer is idiocy.

6. I still believe your judgment was uncalled for and you offended Diane by your judgment. She thanked me for standing up for her.
1.4,5 agree completely.
3. You know, I had to read this two more times now, before I finally caught where she says that she is person doing the speaking.
2. Having been in ministry professionally since the day I was baptized in the spirit, many times in charismatic ministries in large churches and regionally, is it not remotely possible that I have developed the gift of discernment?
5. My experience includes having heard demonic tongues.

Now that I see what you are saying, I will go back and apologize if I have offended her. But 45 years of professional leadership ministry in the Charismatic renewal still say I am correct in this discernment.
5. Yes it is. But I have hjeard demonic tongues form non-believers.
 
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Ken Behrens

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Thank you, AlexDTX. My thoughts exactly.
diane.

I thought I might just comment on your, "I cannot pray in tongues without first starting to praise God". Praising God at any time and in all circumstances is always a good thing to do. But it is not a prerequisite to praying in the Spirit. There is no scriptural directive requiring praise before utterance in the Spirit.
diane.
Diane, my apologies if you felt offended by what I said. It has taken Alex 3 days to get me to realize that you were the person on the tape. Had I known this, I would have worded my post very differently.

Having been in charismatic leadership ministry for 45 years, I'm sorry, but, my discernment is that the sample of tongues on the video is not authentic tongues. Not that you don't have an authentic gift of tongues, just that you were not using it then. In the early days, we would all refuse to "demonstrate" tongues, saying it was for prayer or to be used in the meetings only. Fear of creating such tapes was part of our reasoning.

There's a good deal of counterfeits going around. For example, Watchers of the Nation (who are an international authentic group based in Canada) have gotten involved in the Vancouver Island Revival (which was authentic for five years, but that was quite a while ago, and in the revivals throughout Alberta. But there has been a lot of criticism coming from Toronto, where CFRB is headquartered. I may still be able to put you in touch with some of Canada's leaders in this regard, if you would like.
 
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diane.

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Good morning Ken and AlexDTX.

I hope that you both, and anyone else who may join the conversation, will have the patience to read this testimony and clarification. I do believe you will truly be inspired.

I have been away from this forum for the better part of a week, so I've not been up to speed as to what's been said. In the posting of my video, it was my desire to stimulate interesting conversation. I'm not sure that I have been particularly offended, but I do appreciate you, Alex, for coming to my defense, and I thank you, Ken, for your apology.

Ken, it seems possible that you did not listen to the video from start to finish. In John Oakley's preamble to the show, he reads a portion of a letter - my letter written to him accompanied with an audio tape of me speaking in tongues. In the letter I sent to him, I clearly identify myself as the pastor of a Pentecostal church. So, yes, to remove all doubt, I am a born-again, bible-believing, spirit-filled Christian, who has been a servant of the gospel of Jesus Christ for 35 years.

Allow me to give some context to the letter and tape sent to Mr. Oakley. As a pastor, Monday was typically my day off. I was at home sorting laundry and decided to turn the radio on. At that precise moment, John Oakley and a caller were having a rather lively dispute over the credibility of speaking in tongues. I, of course, listened with great interest. It was the way in which John Oakley ended the discussion with the caller that prompted me to be a witness, or perhaps an apologist for the veracity and power of God, the Holy Spirit.

I do not carelessly 'throw around' utterances in the spirit. But in this case, there seemed to be a great purpose for doing so. I felt very compelled. My husband and I went to our church, where we privately recorded me praying in the spirit. I then wrote the letter and mailed it off to Mr. Oakley, along with the tape. I felt that I had done what I was supposed to do and gave it no further thought.

A whole month went by, when, again, on a Monday I was at home and turned the radio on as I was puttering around the house. To my utter amazement, John Oakley was just beginning his show and giving his preamble as to what would be on his program over the next few hours. Shockingly, the first topic up for discussion was a letter and tape recording that he had received from a Pentecostal pastor. I could not believe my ears... mostly because I had stated in the letter that the content enclosed was not for public consumption. This was extraordinary and totally unanticipated. I quickly ran to get my recorder in order to tape the segment, thus the audio tape that I have shared with ChristianForums. I phoned my husband and a few other people, so they could tune in and listen in on the program.

As if this weren't enough, it seemed like the real reason behind the prompting to send the letter and audio was yet to be revealed. Two weeks after the airing of my audio tape on CFRB, I received a phone call at my church office from a gentleman who said he very much needed to speak with someone from the church. He was not a Christian, nor a churchgoer, but said that something had happened recently and he was re-thinking 'God' and needed some questions answered. I asked him his name and where he lived. I said that both my husband and I would be happy to meet with him to be of whatever help we could. It turned out that his address was just 10 minutes from our church. The day arrived for us to go to his home. We knocked on his door, he opened it and very warmly invited us in. We sat in his kitchen. He seemed a little rattled, nervous, but very excited. He proceeded to tell us how one day, a few weeks earlier, he was driving in his car and listening to the radio. He said, "I heard the most amazing thing and I can't get it out of my mind." He said, "I was listening to the John Oakley show and I heard a woman speaking in another language, an unknown language. I knew it was something from God. I need to know about this. Can you tell me anything about praying in tongues?"

You could have knocked me off my chair with a feather! I said to him, "I am that woman. It was I you heard, and yes, I can tell you about the Holy Spirit." We sat in this man's kitchen for 2 hours answering his questions. It was stunning! It was supernatural! God had orchestrated a divine appointment through the simpleness of obedience; the obedience to write a letter and to send a sample of the truth along with the letter.

If it touched this one man in such a profound way, how many others did God reach that day??

I should give clarification. In the audio, you hear another woman, who is a call-in... this of course, is not me - she is just babbling.

I hope this testimony brings context and clarification to the audio.

If you have any interest in putting a face to a name or viewing any of our other short videos on various subjects, please go to our YouTube channel here.
diane.
 
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