Big Contradictions?

[JacksBratt]

No idea why it says I am a newbie.

LOL with that many posts too. You can actually go in your account setting and change it....looks like it's been a while

 

[JackRT]

You don't believe in fairy tales and superheroes, yet, you believe the Bible to be nothing more than that?

Please note that I never claimed that.

 

[JackRT]

No idea why it says I am a newbie.

With that many posts you must be geriatric.

 

[JacksBratt]

Please note that I never claimed that.

If the Bible is as you stated:

"entirely written by men and possibly one woman too. What they wrote reflected their sincere beliefs and the collective wisdom of their cultural heritage"

What set's "sincere beliefs and collective wisdom" apart from fairy tales and superheros?

 

[JackRT]

If the Bible is as you stated:

"entirely written by men and possibly one woman too. What they wrote reflected their sincere beliefs and the collective wisdom of their cultural heritage"

What set's "sincere beliefs and collective wisdom" apart from fairy tales and superheros?

Fairy tales and superheros are fiction. Allegory and mythology are somewhat different than fiction because they embody truths that are difficult to convey in ordinary language.

 

[Speedwell]

We have no other source of the knowledge of our creator and savior.

That is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, a doctrine limited to Protestants, which puts you in a minority already.

And we haven't even started on what you might mean by "inspired" or "true."

 

[JackRT]

That is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, a doctrine limited to Protestants, which puts you in a minority already.

And we haven't even started on what you might mean by "inspired" or "true."

Actually Catholics outnumber Protestants worlswide. However as an independent Christian I am very much a minority.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually Catholics outnumber Protestants worlswide. However as an independent Christian I am very much a minority.

Don't you mean that the other way around? Protestants outnumber Catholics.

 

[JackRT]

Don't you mean that the other way around? Protestants outnumber Catholics.

No, unless things have changed recently. I will research it.

 

[Speedwell]

Don't you mean that the other way around? Protestants outnumber Catholics.

In the US, yes. But we were speaking of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura which is found only among Protestants. Worldwide, non-Protestants outnumber Protestants by about a billion six (of which about a billion two are Catholics) to eight hundred million.

 

[JackRT]

From Wikipedia:

• Catholic Church - 1.272 Billon.

• Protestantism - 800 million.

• Eastern Orthodoxy - 225–300 million.

• Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million.

• Anglicanism - 90 million.

• Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 42–48 million.

• Independent Catholic denominations - 28 million.

• Church of the East - 0.6 million.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, unless things have changed recently. I will research it.

Don't bother, you were right. I made a mistake that I have chastised others of making. I conflated non Catholic with Protestant.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the US, yes. But we were speaking of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura which is found only among Protestants. Worldwide, non-Protestants outnumber Protestants by about a billion six (of which about a billion two are Catholics) to eight hundred million.

Yep, I goofed. I made the mistake of conflating non Catholics with Protestants. I told you how I tried to convince a Catholic that Anglicans were not Protestants and he would not hear of it. And now I make almost the same mistake.

 

[Speedwell]

Yep, I goofed. I made the mistake of conflating non Catholics with Protestants. I told you how I tried to convince a Catholic that Anglicans were not Protestants and he would not hear of it. And now I make almost the same mistake.

Hey! That's not mistake, it's an issue.

Anglicans are lucky; we give ourselves the right to choose. Some consider themselves Protestants, others don't. Of course, the Catholics don't consider us to be Catholics--and on this forum, anyway, a lot of the Protestants don't even think we're Christians.

 

[JacksBratt]

Fairy tales and superheros are fiction. Allegory and mythology are somewhat different than fiction because they embody truths that are difficult to convey in ordinary language.

This keeps getting better and better.

Now it's Allegory and mythology.

So, in this "allegory" and "Mythology" how are we to know what is actually true?

God says He made the universe, the earth and everything in it in six days. He formed Adam with His hands and breathed the breath of life into him to make him the first living man. Then He formed Eve from a rib... Later He floods the earth and kills all living things that breath air, through nostrils, except for one man, his three sons and their wives. A group of people destroy a city and it's walls by walking around it a playing musical instruments. One of these people stops the sun and moon from moving across the sky and it's the longest day in history. Later a boy shepherd kills a fearsome giant with a sling and a rock. Three men refuse to bow to an evil king and survive a fiery furnace. Another man spends the night with hungry lions. A virgin has a baby. This baby starts telling stories that contradict the high priests. They crucify him but he comes back from the dead a few days later and starts his same old tricks... He says he's going away to prepare a home for everyone who believes in him and he is going to come back for them the same way he left.. by floating up in the air and disappearing behind a cloud.

This is just a short list... Now, tell me, how do you decide what is truth, what is myth, what is allegory?..

Do we read the book and choose for ourselves? Do we listen to other, more learned men and women? Do we scrap it all and say "it just means we should be kind to everyone"?

Or, do we take it as every word being as true as if it came from the mouth of God himself, and He has preserved these scriptures for thousands of years and we are to stand on them like the rock they are and not build the foundations of our beliefs on the sand dunes of what men think are the only things to be considered possible to be true?

 

[JacksBratt]

That is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, a doctrine limited to Protestants, which puts you in a minority already.

And we haven't even started on what you might mean by "inspired" or "true."

Oh no!! you mean that my beliefs are the minority? You mean that the people that believe the way I do are far outnumbered by the people that disagree with me?

Sheesh, did anyone ever think of telling Noah that he should stop building the ark because his belief was that of the minority?
Exodus 23:2King James Version (KJV)

2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

Or better understood as:

Exodus 23:2New International Version (NIV)
2 “Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,
Maybe the decision to go into the promised land, and fight the giant people there, the first time, should have been made by the minority and saved the 40 years in the desert.

Elijah was outnumbered, as a prophet, 450 to 1.......... Hmmmmm majority did not rule here did it?

And, dag nabbit, the idiot populous of Ontario voted in a Liberal government for the last eight years... now, they have to decide to pay for electricity or food....


Ya.... I'm real scared and worried that my view is the minority.... my knees are a knock'n.

 

[Speedwell]

This is just a short list... Now, tell me, how do you decide what is truth, what is myth, what is allegory?..

If you think that myth and allegory can't be true then you had better stick with the way you are interpreting the Bible now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This keeps getting better and better.

Now it's Allegory and mythology.

So, in this "allegory" and "Mythology" how are we to know what is actually true?

A bit of logical thinking might help.

God says He made the universe, the earth and everything in it in six days. He formed Adam with His hands and breathed the breath of life into him to make him the first living man. Then He formed Eve from a rib... Later He floods the earth and kills all living things that breath air, through nostrils, except for one man, his three sons and their wives. A group of people destroy a city and it's walls by walking around it a playing musical instruments. One of these people stops the sun and moon from moving across the sky and it's the longest day in history. Later a boy shepherd kills a fearsome giant with a sling and a rock. Three men refuse to bow to an evil king and survive a fiery furnace. Another man spends the night with hungry lions. A virgin has a baby. This baby starts telling stories that contradict the high priests. They crucify him but he comes back from the dead a few days later and starts his same old tricks... He says he's going away to prepare a home for everyone who believes in him and he is going to come back for them the same way he left.. by floating up in the air and disappearing behind a cloud.

God did not say any of that. The Bible is a work of man.

This is just a short list... Now, tell me, how do you decide what is truth, what is myth, what is allegory?..

Perhaps if you start with the parts that make God to be an evil creature. Then eliminate the parts that would make God a liar. Then see which stories are men just bragging about their conquests. The important parts will still be there.

Do we read the book and choose for ourselves? Do we listen to other, more learned men and women? Do we scrap it all and say "it just means we should be kind to everyone"?

Better for the last than a literal interpretation.

Or, do we take it as every word being as true as if it came from the mouth of God himself, and He has preserved these scriptures for thousands of years and we are to stand on them like the rock they are and not build the foundations of our beliefs on the sand dunes of what men think are the only things to be considered possible to be true?

Since the Bible has countless failures in it the Bible clearly is not a "rock" by demanding that you will drive people away from your beliefs. If God gave you a brain you should try to use it. There are some parts that are clearly false. I am sure that there are parts of the Bible that you do not follow.

 

[Speedwell]

Oh no!! you mean that my beliefs are the minority? You mean that the people that believe the way I do are far outnumbered by the people that disagree with me?

It's just a fact. Why should it be a problem for you?

 

[Astrophile]

My point is that if the 'natural selection' process is trial and error there should be plenty of evidence of those 'errors', unless natural selection gets it right the first time, every time. We should see the evidence of those bad designs all through the fossil record, but all we see are complete organisms well able to survive and reproduce. Way too perfect.

A simple answer is that most of the 'errors' end up inside the stomachs of other animals before they reach sexual maturity. That's why we don't find any trace of them.