The stumbling block for atheists.

[Subduction Zone]

Sounds like an agnostic to me.

Agnostics are atheists, for the most part, just as Catholics are Christians.

 

[Kylie]

Sounds like an agnostic to me.

Agnostic means they don't claim for sure, and gnostic means they do claim to know for sure.

So an agnostic atheist would say, "I don't believe there is a God, but I could be wrong." And a gnostic atheist would say, "I know for a fact that there is no God."

 

[AV1611VET]

Agnostic means they don't claim for sure, and gnostic means they do claim to know for sure.

Paul wrote the book of Colossians to combat Gnosticism.

 

[Freodin]

Dealing with labels instead of points... an old tactic among the apologets.

 

[AV1611VET]

Dealing with labels instead of points... an old tactic among the apologets.

Without a label, you wouldn't know what present under the tree belongs to whom.

 

[quatona]

Without a label, you wouldn't know what present under the tree belongs to whom.

Yeah, but you wouldn´t accept the label as the actual present, would you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Leave it to AV to make a stupid joke or an irrelevant point whenever the actual topic gets too inconvenient for him.

I was just defending Kylie, that's all.

And all she was doing was defining labels.

 

[quatona]

I was just defending Kylie, that's all.

And all she was doing was defining labels.

It seemed to me that she clarified a misunderstanding of her position (and most every self-professed atheist´s here) which originated from relying on labels rather than what is being said.

 

[AV1611VET]

It seemed to me that she clarified a misunderstanding of her position (and most every self-professed atheist´s here) which originated from relying on labels rather than what is being said.

Don't know; don't care.

Take that up with Freodin, if there's something that bothers you.

All I said was that Paul wrote the book of Colossians to combat Gnosticism.

And do you know why I said that?

Because Paul wrote the book of Colossians to combat Gnosticism.

 

[quatona]

Don't know; don't care.

Of course you don´t care.

All I said was that Paul wrote the book of Colossians to combat Gnosticism.

And do you know why I said that?

Because Paul wrote the book of Colossians to combat Gnosticism.

IIRC, that was not the post I responded to.

 

[AV1611VET]

IIRC, that was not the post I responded to.

Whatever.

I hope you have a nice day.

Don't let me spoil it.

(Or is it too late? )

 

[quatona]

Whatever.

I hope you have a nice day.

Don't let me spoil it.

(Or is it too late? )

Thank you!
No worries - you are overestimating your powers.

 

[AV1611VET]

- you are overestimating your powers.

My apologies then!

 

[Radrook]

Avoiding the fatal flaw is a necessary but not sufficient reason for living a Christian life.

And I'm not trying to defend anything. I'm just trying to understand you guys. Are you saying that you DO accept the possibility that reality consists of more than can be detected by the senses?

Very true. Some theists use their freedom of choice to become a law unto themselves exactly as Adam and Eve did. Furthermore, many theists are non Christians. So the recognition of an ID does not automatically lead to a change in a person's behavior. Ancient Israelites were theists and yet repeatedly lived in full violation of the Mosaic Law. In fact, they began to sin shortly after beholding miracles involving the ten plagues and the Red Sea. Now one would expect that such a convincing supernatural demonstration would have rendered them fearfully obedient. But that just wasn't the case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Very true. Some theists use their freedom of choice to become a law unto themselves exactly as Adam and Eve did. Furthermore, many theists are non Christians. So the recognition of an ID does not automatically lead to a change in a person's behavior. Ancient Israelites were theists and yet repeatedly fell lived as they wished in full violation of the Mosaic Law. In fact, they began to act up just a short while after seeing miracles involving of the ten plagues and the Red Sea. Now one would expect that such a supernatural demonstration would have rendered them fearfully obedient. But that just wasn't the case.

By relying on the clearly mythical parts of the Bible you shoot your own argument down.

 

[bhsmte]

Very true. Some theists use their freedom of choice to become a law unto themselves exactly as Adam and Eve did. Furthermore, many theists are non Christians. So the recognition of an ID does not automatically lead to a change in a person's behavior. Ancient Israelites were theists and yet repeatedly fell lived as they wished in full violation of the Mosaic Law. In fact, they began to act up just a short while after seeing miracles involving of the ten plagues and the Red Sea. Now one would expect that such a supernatural demonstration would have rendered them fearfully obedient. But that just wasn't the case.

How do you determine, if a theist has the correct theistic belief?

 

[Speedwell]

How do you determine, if a theist has the correct theistic belief?

Just ask Radrook.

 

[Astrophile]

I think I can understand why atheists are atheists. After all, professing Christians don't love each other as we should. We judge each other too harshly. We get hung up over all kinds of unimportant minutia. To the atheist, Christianity probably just looks like any other kooky cult because we generally don't accurately reflect the nature of our Creator.

A cynic might say that these professing Christians do accurately reflect the nature of the Creator. He doesn't love people as he ought, he 'hated Esau and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness' (Malachi 1:3); he judges people too harshly, having a man stoned to death for gathering firewood on the Sabbath day (Numbers 15:32-36), 102 people burnt to death for being insolent to a prophet (2 Kings 1:9-12) and 42 youngsters torn to pieces by bears for mocking another prophet's bald head (2 Kings 2:23-24); and he is hung up on the details of people's sex lives (too many references to cite).

An atheist might suspect that the supposed Creator accurately reflects the nature of his worshippers, and that, like Narcissus, we have fallen in love with our own reflection.

 

[Speedwell]

An atheist might suspect that the supposed Creator accurately reflects the nature of his worshippers, and that, like Narcissus, we have fallen in love with our own reflection.

It's always the "god-in-the-mirror." That's why being a Christian is a real challenge, not just meticulous adherence to doctrine. Jesus knew that, preached it; why do think we strung him up?

 

[Kylie]

Paul wrote the book of Colossians to combat Gnosticism.

Do you know for a fact that God exists? As in, it's just as much a fact for you as it is a fact that one plus one equals two?